France declares War on Amercia!

Michael said:
but I thought America invented everything first? :D
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No, not everything, we left out a few things for others to invent to get recognition as well. :p

Actually China has been long over looked for what their contributions have been and only recently we have found out things like the first printing was dinvented there, the making of steel was started there and paper was first made there. Rudders, BTW , were also invented in China a thousand years before the west ever used them.
 
Actually China has been long over looked for what their contributions have been and only recently we have found out things like the first printing was dinvented there, the making of steel was started there and paper was first made there. Rudders, BTW , were also invented in China a thousand years before the west ever used them.
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Their decend inventors but you would have to agree that their idiots on terms of practical applications for them
 
orcot said:
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Their decend inventors but you would have to agree that their idiots on terms of practical applications for them
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I'd say just the opposite. The people who invented say the rudder also helped build the first true long range sailing vessels that explored the open oceans and traveled to Africa, Japan, and some believe North America as well.

"China has a very old seafaring tradition. Chinese ships had sailed to India as early as the Han Dynasty. By 100 AD, Chinese shipbuilders invented the stern post rudder and watertight compartments for ship's hulls. By 200 AD, they used several masts and the redesigned the basic square sail with the fore-and-aft rig. This allowed the ship to sail into the wind.

With these inventions, the Chinese trader and explorer Zheng Ho sailed as far as Africa between 1405 and 1433. Mysteriously, China did not follow up on these voyages. The Chinese destroyed their ocean going ships and halted further expeditions"

http://www.vhinkle.com/china/inventions.html
 
The Chinese destroyed their ocean going ships and halted further expeditions"
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So lets shoot down the ISS and sell NASA for scrap parts and see if the rest of the world don't think that thios would be a little silly.

Actually you can critisize many of these inventions.
1 writing since 1700BC the first book aclaimed in 1000BC

writing is a middle eastern invention not chinese and weather and I have difficulties believing that they wrote the first book. I'm however certain that it where either greeks, romans or egyptians who created the first libraries.

The compass, sure a chinese invention but not that practical, the first marine compass where developed in Europe.
Cartography is a little more dificult because it so old (the first map ever found is french and is from 16500 BC. Overall Europeans/middle eastern delivered better quality freekisly good quality if you consider maps like those of piri rei (not a european but defenitly no chinese)

the rudder is rather a good one but it got sepparatly invented in Europe, not to mention it where Europeans who actually could build a economical ocean ship. Zheng ho took 200-300 ships and 28000 man to reach africa (note that it wasn't even documented well).

steel was eventually also developed in europe without help however the chinese got a little help with the industrial revolution .

Great wall it's a wall and not one of the 7 world wonders all the world wonders stood in or near Europe. On the fact that it's visible from orbit?? That a urban myth or it has to be from verry low orbit I doubt you could see it from a airplane at cruse altitude but I gues there is always google earth.

porcelain it's pretty and chinese good for them.


canals & lock 4500 years afther the mesophotanians did and no offence when I think of canals I think of holland.

Roads 700AC anyone remember the romans?

mechanical clocks where dominatly developed by Europeans and middle easterns.

I could go on and on
 
Michael said:
Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville recording predates Thomas Edison's "Mary had a little lamb" -- previously credited as the oldest recorded voice -- by 17 years.


but



but



but I thought America invented everything first? :D
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America has invented many things first, but there are also a few national myths that become persistent. I was once taught (in school no less) that Robert Fulton invented the steam engine, except that he didn't. I then learned that he invented the steamboat, with his first being the Clermont. Also untrue. He didn't invent the steamboat (in fact he learned about them from another steamboat designer, who also didn't invent them), and the boat was was the "North River Steamboat" (that traveled on its initial commercial voyage between NYC and the Clermont estate, in modern Clermont NY).

Similar myths arise all the time. Columbus obviously did not really "discover" America, since people were living here at the time. Columbus may not have been Italian, as is the received wisdom. James Watt did not invent the steam engine, nor did Newcomen before him, nor Thomas Savery before him. It may have started with Heron of Alexandria (circa AD 100) who definitely did have a design of a steam engine, albeit a simple one that was more of an amusement, and who knows what prior art he was working with. The first intelligible (Morse Code) radio signals were sent by David Hughes (British)more than a decade before Marconi or Tesla did the same.

America's great advantage is that our national myths are broadcast worldwide because foeigners can't get enough of our entertainment. Plus, given the breathroughs we have made, many of the others seem plausible, so it's easy to assimilate the myth without doublechecking.

In this case, though, it appears that the prior recording were entirely unknown, so the myth is entirely understandable.
 
Thomas Edison didn't "invent" the light bulb either. It was Joseph Swans (from Great Britain), who actually had his whole mansion illuminated with an incandescent bulb a full fifteen years before he sold the patent to Edison. Edison merely invented the marketable light bulb. Edison, was nonetheless brilliant. The light bulb wasn't enough reason for people to buy in to electricity, nor was it enough reason--in and of itself--for electricity to be produced, so he developed a whole way of life that made electricity production profitable and feasible.

~String
 
Pandaemoni said:
America has invented many things first, but there are also a few national myths that become persistent. I was once taught (in school no less) that Robert Fulton invented the steam engine, except that he didn't. I then learned that he invented the steamboat, with his first being the Clermont. Also untrue. He didn't invent the steamboat (in fact he learned about them from another steamboat designer, who also didn't invent them), and the boat was was the "North River Steamboat" (that traveled on its initial commercial voyage between NYC and the Clermont estate, in modern Clermont NY).

Similar myths arise all the time. Columbus obviously did not really "discover" America, since people were living here at the time. Columbus may not have been Italian, as is the received wisdom. James Watt did not invent the steam engine, nor did Newcomen before him, nor Thomas Savery before him. It may have started with Heron of Alexandria (circa AD 100) who definitely did have a design of a steam engine, albeit a simple one that was more of an amusement, and who knows what prior art he was working with. The first intelligible (Morse Code) radio signals were sent by David Hughes (British)more than a decade before Marconi or Tesla did the same.

America's great advantage is that our national myths are broadcast worldwide because foeigners can't get enough of our entertainment. Plus, given the breathroughs we have made, many of the others seem plausible, so it's easy to assimilate the myth without doublechecking.

In this case, though, it appears that the prior recording were entirely unknown, so the myth is entirely understandable.
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you are right about Heron. I believe his engine was trialled in a ship of the Greek navy but abandoned because of the difficulty in keeping it going; it required a constant source of heat. Judging from the diagrams I have seen, it seems plausible that it woulds have worked in principle.

Someone else who must not be overlooked is Michelangelo. Have you seen his sketchbooks with a submarine and and a helicopter, for example ? He had the genius but the technology was lacking,

I always thought it was Americo Vespucci (?) who discovered America. Columbus ended up in the wrong place. There is also a description of a voyage undertaken by St Brendan in a curragh to Iceland and thence to Ameicam in the 7th century . Possible evidence in the form of beehive-type stone structures, typical of Ireland, were found on the East Coast.

Obviously the Native Americans got their first but when one talks of discovering America from A European perspective, one is thinking of sea voyages.
 
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cosmictraveler said:
I'd say just the opposite. The people who invented say the rudder also helped build the first true long range sailing vessels that explored the open oceans and traveled to Africa, Japan, and some believe North America as well.

"China has a very old seafaring tradition. Chinese ships had sailed to India as early as the Han Dynasty. By 100 AD, Chinese shipbuilders invented the stern post rudder and watertight compartments for ship's hulls. By 200 AD, they used several masts and the redesigned the basic square sail with the fore-and-aft rig. This allowed the ship to sail into the wind.

With these inventions, the Chinese trader and explorer Zheng Ho sailed as far as Africa between 1405 and 1433. Mysteriously, China did not follow up on these voyages. The Chinese destroyed their ocean going ships and halted further expeditions"

http://www.vhinkle.com/china/inventions.html
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Didn't China become a closed society for cultural reasons ?
 
I think the CHinese emperor was gong broke, was at a point of being deposed by powerful people in China and, supposedly, was told that most people living outside of China were backwards barbarians with little of value worth trading fine Chinese silks and metal works with. So China, being the middle of the world and center of civilization, closed itself off - again.
 
Semites are responsible for most of the basic advances in civilization, including civilization itself, language, boats, coinage (if you count Persians), advanced mathematics, advancements in philosophy, religion, medicine, and astronomy, as well as major geographical impacts

Of course, there are alot more advances than just that but I'm just listing a few
 
Michael said:
I think the CHinese emperor was gong broke, was at a point of being deposed by powerful people in China and, supposedly, was told that most people living outside of China were backwards barbarians with little of value worth trading fine Chinese silks and metal works with. So China, being the middle of the world and center of civilization, closed itself off - again.
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That sounds right to me. I sem to remember that foreigners were referred to as red-faced devils. The Chinerse cannot metabolize alcohol, which makes them turn red, so they assumed that anyone with a complexion unlike theirs must be drunk.
 
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Norsefire said:
Semites are responsible for most of the basic advances in civilization, including civilization itself, language, boats, coinage (if you count Persians), advanced mathematics, advancements in philosophy, religion, medicine, and astronomy, as well as major geographical impacts

Of course, there are alot more advances than just that but I'm just listing a few
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That's a pretty strong claim. How about the Greeks and philosophy ? What do you mean by civilization ? Weren't the Semites mostly nomadic, unlike the Persians who had an empire ? The most seaworthy boats were built by the Vikings.

I don't know how one measures advances in religion. Perhaps you could clarify your point. What advances were made in astronomy that could be rated alonside the invention of the telescope ?

It would be useful if you could supply some concrete examples to support your claim
 
China is a country where many inventions made their first appearances. The inventions which made their first appearances in China are listed below (Table 56, pgs. 176-180 in Needham's Volume 4 Part 2, Science and Civilization in China).

Battens in sails
Blast furnace
Cast iron
Chinese cuisine: Tofu, Ramen, Sushi
Chinese clothing: Qipao, Hanfu
Chopsticks
Crank, hand-operated
Repeating crossbow
Escapement mechanism for clocks
Exploding cannonball
Fire Arrow
Gunpowder
Firearm
Horse collar
Hull compartments/bulkheads
Kite
Land mines
Lottery
Naval mines
Noodles
Paper
Pendulum (Zhang Heng)
Printing (woodblock printing and movable type)
Rockets: Fire Arrow, Multistage rocket
Rudder
Sailing carriage
Seismometer (of Zhang Heng)
Silk
South Pointing Chariot (differential gear, of Ma Jun)
Sluice gates
Toilet paper
Traditional Chinese medicine
Trebuchet (traction)
Trip hammer
Winnowing machine

Other inventions
Other things which are considered by various authors to have been first discovered, discovered contemporaneously with other civilizations, discovered separately after other civilizations, or simply used by the Chinese:

Abacus (first appearance: Mesopotamia, 2400 BC. First certain appearance in China: 12th century AD)
Armillary sphere (invented by the Greek Eratosthenes), with the world's first water-powered armillary sphere by Zhang Heng.
Various automata (refer to article on King Mu of Zhou, Mozi, Lu Ban, etc.)
Bellows
Belt drive
Bituminous coke for the iron and steel industry
Compass
Camera obscura
Cardan Suspension
The cannon
Chain drive
Chain pumps
Chinese calendar
Crossbow
Drydock
The Flamethrower
Flash lock
Early explosive grenades
Odometer (also by Archimedes and Heron of Alexandria)
Paddle wheel, for boats
Paper money
Parachutes
Pontoon bridge
Porcelain
Postal system
Pound lock
Scissors
Steel
Suspension bridge
Star catalogue
Tea
Umbrella
Vaccination
Water clock
Waterwheel (also of the Greco-Roman tradition)
Wheelbarrow
Windmill

Acupuncture
Chinese martial arts
Confucianism
Taoism
Chinese calendar
Chinese cuisine
Chinese clothing
Traditional Chinese medicine
Chinese astronomy

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-chinese-inventions
 
cosmictraveler said:
China is a country where many inventions made their first appearances. The inventions which made their first appearances in China are listed below (Table 56, pgs. 176-180 in Needham's Volume 4 Part 2, Science and Civilization in China).

Battens in sails
Blast furnace
Cast iron
Chinese cuisine: Tofu, Ramen, Sushi
Chinese clothing: Qipao, Hanfu
Chopsticks
Crank, hand-operated
Repeating crossbow
Escapement mechanism for clocks
Exploding cannonball
Fire Arrow
Gunpowder
Firearm
Horse collar
Hull compartments/bulkheads
Kite
Land mines
Lottery
Naval mines
Noodles
Paper
Pendulum (Zhang Heng)
Printing (woodblock printing and movable type)
Rockets: Fire Arrow, Multistage rocket
Rudder
Sailing carriage
Seismometer (of Zhang Heng)
Silk
South Pointing Chariot (differential gear, of Ma Jun)
Sluice gates
Toilet paper
Traditional Chinese medicine
Trebuchet (traction)
Trip hammer
Winnowing machine

Other inventions
Other things which are considered by various authors to have been first discovered, discovered contemporaneously with other civilizations, discovered separately after other civilizations, or simply used by the Chinese:

Abacus (first appearance: Mesopotamia, 2400 BC. First certain appearance in China: 12th century AD)
Armillary sphere (invented by the Greek Eratosthenes), with the world's first water-powered armillary sphere by Zhang Heng.
Various automata (refer to article on King Mu of Zhou, Mozi, Lu Ban, etc.)
Bellows
Belt drive
Bituminous coke for the iron and steel industry
Compass
Camera obscura
Cardan Suspension
The cannon
Chain drive
Chain pumps
Chinese calendar
Crossbow
Drydock
The Flamethrower
Flash lock
Early explosive grenades
Odometer (also by Archimedes and Heron of Alexandria)
Paddle wheel, for boats
Paper money
Parachutes
Pontoon bridge
Porcelain
Postal system
Pound lock
Scissors
Steel
Suspension bridge
Star catalogue
Tea
Umbrella
Vaccination
Water clock
Waterwheel (also of the Greco-Roman tradition)
Wheelbarrow
Windmill

Acupuncture
Chinese martial arts
Confucianism
Taoism
Chinese calendar
Chinese cuisine
Chinese clothing
Traditional Chinese medicine
Chinese astronomy

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-chinese-inventions
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But, apart from the above few things, what else did the Chinese Semites invent ?
 
originally posted by Michael:

but I thought America invented everything first
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The far left anti-americanism in this forum never stops amazing me......
As far as I know, I do not hear americans claiming that they invented everything. As for american's supposedly having the egos, I consistently hear people from other countries stating their superiority over the U.S. and not the other way around.

As for the invention, this is not surprising. It usually takes a long list of scientists and inventors to slowly develop a technology, it does not spring overnight. The person who makes it practical and can publicize it usually gets the credit.

The french also make argument that they invented the technology to fly the plane and the Wright brothers must have had access to this information. Well duhh..... They did not come up with it all their own after a moment of inspiration. Again, those who make it practical get the credit.
 
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