Former CIA analysts crusade for Palestine

S.A.M.

uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
Former CIA political analysts Bill and Kathleen Christison are initiating a much needed discussion in the American MSM on ground realities in Palestine through their new book "Palestine in Pieces"

Video link to discussion

Former CIA political analysts Kathleen and Bill Christison give a comprehensive description of the occupation and the ways in which Israel dominates the Palestinians: Israeli settlements, the Separation Wall, roads restricted to cars with Israeli license plates, home demolitions on a massive scale, imprisonment, mass assassinations and wanton sniper and artillery fire. With more than 50 photographs vividly demonstrating the impact of the occupation on the Palestinian people, the authors argue that Israel's long-term intention is to so fragment the occupied territories that any sustainable presence in the land by Palestinians as a nation will be negated.
 
Just call it the new slavery of our century .
Palestinians, Iraqis and Afghans are living hell under the Jewish-Christinians occupations . Every Muslim country was at one point and occupation of the Christinians . History shows us the pure bullying and tyranny of the Jews and Christinians . Is James R going to close this thread soon too ??!!.
Hahaha.
 
Former PLO terrorist, Walid Shoebat, speaks out for Israel: http://www.shoebat.com/bio.php

This Walid Shoebat?

The paper described Shoebat as a self-proclaimed "former Islamic terrorist" who said that Islam was a "satanic cult" and who told the crowd how he eventually accepted Jesus into his heart.

However, Shoebat's claim to have bombed Bank Leumi in Bethlehem is rejected by members of his family who still live in the area, and Bank Leumi says it has no record of such an attack ever taking place.

His relatives, members of the Shoebat family, are mystified by the notion of "Walid Shoebat" being an assumed name. And the Walid Shoebat Foundation's working process is less than transparent, with Shoebat's claim that it is registered as a charity in the state of Pennsylvania being denied by the Pennsylvania State Attorney's Office.

Shoebat's claim to have been a terrorist rests on his account of the purported bombing of Bank Leumi. But after checking its files, the bank said it had no record of an attack on its Bethlehem branch anywhere in the relevant 1977-79 period.

Shoebat told The Jerusalem Post that this could be because the bank building was robustly protected with steel and that the attack may have caused little damage.

Asked whether word of the bombing made the news at the time, he said, "I don't know. I didn't read the papers because I was in hiding for the next three days." (In 2004, he had told Britain's Sunday Telegraph: "I was terribly relieved when I heard on the news later that evening that no one had been hurt or killed by my bomb.")

Shoebat could not immediately recall the year, or even the time of year, of the purported bombing when talking to the Post by phone from the US. After wavering, he finally settled for the summer of 1977.

The Sunday Telegraph described Shoebat as a man who "for much of his life... was eager to commit acts of terrorism for the sake of his soul and the Palestinian cause."

In that interview he described how he and his peers were indoctrinated as children "to believe that the fires of hell were an ever-present reality. We were all terrified of burning in hell when we died... The teachers told us that the only way we could certainly avoid that fate was to die in a martyrdom operation - to die for Islam."

But an uncle and a cousin of Shoebat, who still live in Beit Sahur in the Bethlehem area, where Shoebat grew up, said that Shoebat's education was rather mild ideologically, and that religion did not play a dominant role.

The uncle, interviewed at his home, said he remembered little about his nephew, because Walid left for America at the age of 16, and because his American mother always kept a distance from the rest of the family. The uncle and his wife both said firmly that there was no attack on Bank Leumi.

When questioned on this discrepancy, Shoebat was adamant that he did carry out such a bombing, and that his relatives deny it to cover up for another cousin who was with him during the attack and still lives in Bethlehem.

Shoebat evinced no particular surprise that his family could be tracked down simply by asking Beit Sahur locals where they lived, even though his Internet site claims that his is an assumed name.

Shoebat describes his conversion to Christianity as a transformation "from hate to love." He told the Post that he believes "in a Greater Israel that includes Judea and Samaria, and by this I mean a Jewish state."

A New York Times report last month on the Air Force Academy event, headlined "Speakers at Academy Said to Make False Claims," noted that "Academic professors and others who have heard the three men speak in the United States and Canada said some of their stories border on the fantastic, like Mr. Saleem's account of how, as a child, he infiltrated Israel to plant bombs via a network of tunnels underneath the Golan Heights. No such incidents have been reported, the academic experts said. They also question how three middle-aged men who claim they were recruited as teenagers or younger could have been steeped in the violent religious ideology that only became prevalent in the late 1980s."

The Times quoted Prof. Douglas Howard, who teaches the history of the modern Middle East at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, as saying after he heard Saleem speak last November at the college that he thought the three were connected to several major Christian evangelical organizations.

"It was just an old time gospel hour: 'Jesus can change your life, he changed mine,'" Howard said.

The professor told the Times that his doubts about the authenticity of the three grew after he heard stories like that of the Golan Heights tunnels, "as well as something on Mr. Saleem's Web site along the lines that he was descended from the grand wazir of Islam. The grand wazir of Islam is a nonsensical term."

The newspaper said Arab-American civil rights organizations have questioned "why, at a time when the United States government has vigorously moved to jail or at least deport anyone with a known terrorist connection, the three men, if they are telling the truth, are allowed to circulate freely."

A spokesman for the FBI, the paper reported, said there were no warrants for their arrest.

The Times said the three men were to be paid $13,000 for the Air Force Academy event.

Visitors to Shoebat's Internet site are encouraged to make a donation to his foundation to enable him to disseminate his message. However, a notice on the page states that for "security reasons," the money will not be debited to his foundation, but rather to a company called Top Executive Media. The name Top Executive Media is used by a greetings card firm from Pennsylvania called Top Executive Greetings, a company with an annual turnover of $500,000. When one makes a donation through the Shoebat Internet site, the Web address changes to topexecutivegreetings.com/shoebat.

This seems to be the only active page for the company; its homepage is blank.

Asked by the Post whether the Walid Shoebat Foundation is a registered charity, Shoebat replied that it is registered in Pennsylvania.

The Pennsylvania State Attorney's office said it had no record of a charity registered under this name.

Questioned further, Shoebat said it was registered under a different name, but that he was not aware of the details, which are handled by his manager.

"I remain separate to the running of the charity so that I am not constrained by church rules," he explained, adding that the organization's connection to certain churches meant it would be difficult for him to speak to secular audiences if he became too involved in running it.

Dr. Joel Fishman, of the Allegany County Law Library in Pennsylvania, expressed doubts about this donation process. If the money were being given to a registered charity, the charity would have to make annual reports to the state and federal government on how it was being spent, he noted.

Shoebat insisted donations were not being misused, however. "I survive by being an author," he said. "I only get paid for being an author. All the money that is donated gets put back into events."

If the Bank Leumi bombing claim is unfounded, it is unclear why Shoebat would have wanted to manufacture a terrorist past. True or not, however, it has plainly brought him some prominence and provided him with a means to speak in favor of Israel and be paid for doing so.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1206632362598&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer
 
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SAM is trying to cling to any chink in Walid's story as if finding it would discredit him entirely. It would be pretty awesome if you could do that, wouldn't it? To discredit completely his entire transformation, his views, his legitimacy, his prominence, his faith, his conversion, his lineage, decades of his life, his identity, the danger that he faces if he shows his face anywhere in "Palestinian" territories without protection, and all that, because of minor indiscrepancies here and there?

Here's another site, full of people like him. Have fun.

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
 
And this is news?

Michael Schuerer has been barking about US policy to Israel for years, and his sentiments are shared by many at Langley.
 
otheadp said:
SAM is trying to cling to any chink in Walid's story as if finding it would discredit him entirely.
SAM's attempt to discredit Mr Shoebat's status was pretty much completely successful.

otheadp said:
Here's another site, full of people like him. Have fun.
Being an American, I have had a lot experience with the fundie Christian presentation of the saved and converted, the public confessions of the formerly lost to the evil du jour (drugs, homosexuality, alcohol, rock music, women wearing pants, etc), now brought to the light by Jesus Christ Our Savior. Generally, the scene is sad hooey depressing to contemplate, more symptom than salvation, and not a reliable foundation for geopolitical analysis.

Mr Shoebat was your choice of the lot in this case, former confused teenager brought out to balance former professional agents of the CIA, and I leave it to you to ferret out a more persuasive one.
count said:
And this is news?
Apparently to some. The amnesiac faction of the US political scene needs a lot of repetition.
 
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The question remains, are Israeli actions the result or the cause of the conflict?
 
spidergoat said:
The question remains, are Israeli actions the result or the cause of the conflict?
Israel was formed in 1948, and established by force - including acts of terrorism, as well as UN imposition - in the region.

Let's get an accurate description of what those actions have been since, and then decide if we care about whether they are a result, a cause, or a constituent, of "the conflict". o
 
The formation of Israel could be a result of the conflict which preceeded it, which did include Arab terrorism. The situation could just as easily have been the reverse, with Jews the oppressed minority.
 
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Israel was formed in 1948, and established by force - including acts of terrorism, as well as UN imposition - in the region.

Let's go along with your crap for just a mintute - which country has NOT been established by "force, including terrorism, as well as a UN imposition"?

Country borders are drawn in blood, my friend. If anything, having a body like the UN to bestow its recognition of a territory would only add to a newly formed country's legitimacy. But it isn't necessary, and in most cases was not part of their creation. (Where was the UN for Canada's or USA's creation?)

Israel gets its legitimacy from a long list of things. At the bottom of that list, yes, you will find "force" and "international recognition" (i.e. by the UN). But it's at the bottom, and only 2. See, you have never even heard of the other ones. Or you reject them. Well, thank gd your approval has never been a determinant of a country's legitimacy :)
 
otheadp said:
Country borders are drawn in blood, my friend.
So?
otheadp said:
Israel gets its legitimacy from a long list of things.
So did the Boer's South Africa, Stalin's Russia, and Cecil Rhode's country so elegantly named for him - neatly finessing Godwin's Law.

"Legitimacy" is something that can be lost, as well as gained, no?
spidergoat said:
The situation could just as easily have been the reverse, with Jews the oppressed minority.
But it isn't. So let's describe the situation we have, accurately, how about.
 
Former CIA political analysts Bill and Kathleen Christison are initiating a much needed discussion in the American MSM on ground realities in Palestine through their new book
"description of the occupation and the ways in which Israel dominates the Palestinians: Israeli settlements, the Separation Wall, roads restricted to cars with Israeli license plates, home demolitions on a massive scale, imprisonment, mass assassinations and wanton sniper and artillery fire."
Its remarkable that these everyday factual details of human rights abuses, hardly ever makes it into mainstream news and opinion. The defensive responses on this board are exactly a microcosm of the broader reaction, that attempts to negate ANY negative publicity of immoral Israeli behavior.
 
both sides are f*cking up, both hate each other because both are religious fruit loops.
 
Israel was formed in 1948, and established by force - including acts of terrorism, as well as UN imposition - in the region.

Let's get an accurate description of what those actions have been since, and then decide if we care about whether they are a result, a cause, or a constituent, of "the conflict". o

and lets not forget the radical elements whose idea of "greater Israel" that reaches from the nile to the euphrates.
 
both sides are f*cking up, both hate each other because both are religious fruit loops.

or maybe you could do some research and know what the fuck your talking about. That is a simplistic, bigoted, ignorant, and quite frankly in my opinion a stupid point of view.
 
and lets not forget the radical elements whose idea of "greater Israel" that reaches from the nile to the euphrates.

Or the radical Islamists who feel that the entire area is the sole concern of Muslim Arabs, and all Jews are immigrants who should have no say whatsoever.
 
Jews on one side, Muslims on the other. I think it's quite obvious what the problem is.
 
Or the radical Islamists who feel that the entire area is the sole concern of Muslim Arabs, and all Jews are immigrants who should have no say whatsoever.

or maybe your to much of a bigot to understand what the problem is. They were perfectly willing to allow jews a say just not give up THEIR land so the jews could get a state not in accoradance with the priciplies of self determination.
 
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