Flaunting Sexuality

Is it a fair counterpoint—e.g., "flaunting their sexuality"?


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .

Tiassa

Let us not launch the boat ...
Valued Senior Member
It's always a tough thing to repeat a trick, especially when it's someone else's trick and they just did it. You know, tough room, and all that.

But if you would be so kind, please imagine the following scenario:

Imagine that there is a gay teacher of either gender, whose significant other wants to tie the knot. So the other goes to the school, gets permission to use the sign out front, posts a marriage proposal; then the other hides in the classroom to propose in person; the teacher, of course, accepts, and the students spend part of the day admiring the shiny new diamond ring.​

Just what would happen? Disciplinary action against the teacher? Maybe against school officials for their part in it? Perhaps even electoral challenges for school board seats? Might there be protests?

Anyway, it's all theoretical.

Meanwhile, in Maryland, Liz Bowie of The Baltimore Sun brings us the happy tale of Jennifer Halterman and Wesley Peters:

Hillcrest Elementary's third-grade teacher, Jennifer Halterman, was driving to work Thursday when her boyfriend text-messaged her to say he thought someone might have vandalized the sign in front of her school and she should take a careful look.

As she idled at the stoplight, she glanced over and saw that the sign had indeed been altered by a mischievous soul. "Ms. Halterman will you marry me?" it read.

Just where was that boyfriend of hers, she thought. He wasn't in the parking lot or at the entrance to the school. "I was freaking out," she said. At 8 a.m., none of the children were there yet, so she walked down the empty halls to her classroom, where balloons and a dozen red long-stem roses stood in a vase. But there was still no sign of her boyfriend, Wesley Peters, until he emerged from behind the closet door, got down on his knee and proposed.

"I said, 'Yes,'" Halterman said ....

.... Peters had to contact the principal and the PTA president to get permission to change the sign at Hillcrest, which also happens to be the school Halterman attended as a first-grader. Everyone in the building was in on the scheme. But last Wednesday when all the details were in place, including the balloons and flowers, Halterman called in sick, so it had to be redone for the next day.

When the children did arrive at school that morning, they were very excited, Halterman said. "The girls ooohed and ahhhed over the ring," and others were confused about when they could begin calling her Mrs. Peters, she said.

Of course, not everyone is happy. More specifically, a local tipper forwarded the story to sex-advice columnist and newspaper editor Dan Savage with the following comment:

"When I read this article about how a woman's boyfriend used her employer's (a school) sign to propose to her and then how the kids later commented on her ring, I contrasted that with the fact that I can be fired if kids find out too much about my personal life. It's flaunting their sexuality is what it is. And it's the sort of double standard that straight people just don't understand."

Now, in my circles, few would take the bit about "flaunting their sexuality" completely in earnest. That is, yes, it's one of those things people recognize, but most of the people I know just sort of chuckle about it.

To the other, there are probably more than a few out there who are incensed both by the line itself and, frankly, its veracity. This is, after all, how much of society treats gay relationships, and it's a fair question—in my opinion—why that doesn't work both ways.

I got a little change in my pocket, goin' jing-a-ling-a-ling.
Want to call you on the telephone baby I, give you a ring.
But each time we talk I get the same old thing:
Always, "No huggy, no kissy until I get a weddin' ring."
My honey, my baby, don't put my love upon no shelf.
She said, "Don't give me no lines, and keep your hands to yourself."

Cruel, baby, baby, baby, why you want to treat me this way?
You know I'm still your lover boy, I still feel the same way.
That's when she told me a story 'bout free milk and a cow,
And she said, "No huggy, no kissy until I get a weddin' vow.
My honey, my baby, don't put my love upon no shelf.
She said, "Don't hand me no lines, and keep your hands to yourself."

You see, I wanted her real bad, and I was about to give in.
That's when she started talkin' about true love, started talkin' about sin.
I said, "Honey I'll live with you for the rest of my life."
She said, "No huggy, no kissy, until you make me your wife."
My honey, my baby, don't put my love upon no shelf.
She said, "Don't hand me no lines, and keep your hands to yourself."


(The Georgia Satellites)

I don't know, maybe there is a large portion of our community that doesn't recall the days when people literally would get married in order to finally get laid. The literary and Hollywood bit about it is undoubtedly exaggerated, but the idea really did exist, even well into my youth.

Of course, that's the past, isn't it? I mean, I'm pretty sure that there are some out there who believe in waiting until marriage to have sex, but ... yeah.

In the twenty-first century, though, is it fair to criticize heterosexuals for "flaunting their sexuality" like this? Or would it just be better to stop pretending that gay relationships are purely about sex, and acknowledge that they are very much like their heterosexual equivalent?
____________________

Notes:

Bowie, Liz. "Baltimore Co. teacher gets marriage proposal on school sign". The Baltimore Sun. November 23, 2010. BaltimoreSun.com. November 29, 2010. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...er-marriage-proposal-20101123,0,7725875.story

Savage, Dan. "Gay Teacher Gets Marriage Proposal On School Sign, Gay Teacher's Gay Boyfriend Proposes On School Grounds, Gay Teacher Shows Off Gay Engagement Ring to Third Grade Students". Slog. November 24, 2010. Slog.TheStranger.com. November 29, 2010. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...l-grounds-gay-teacher-shows-off-gay-engagemen
 
It's totally fair to criticize this behavior for hetero or homo sexuals. It's inappropriate in a school.
 
I mean, I'm pretty sure that there are some out there who believe in waiting until marriage to have sex, but ... yeah.

I've actually known (no, not Biblically) several women who were serious about that (but not a single male). The majority of them married men from their local church upon (or before) high school graduation, and so didn't really delay having sex any later than most people do. Whether those marriages will last is an open question - I haven't seen most of them since I moved out of that small, religious town.

Two of them found that option too stifling and went to college (and then, grad school) with the crazy idea that they'd party, drink and date sexually active men and somehow "change" them into agreeing to marry them before having sex. In both cases the result is a long string of failed, short relationships (which basically resemble games of chicken). Both have been at this for well over a decade, without showing any signs of realizing that it just. will. not. work. I expect that some time in their mid/late 30's they will come to grips with reality and either drop the religious prohibition or marry within their churches.

But the really fucked up cases are when the parents (or, worse, the associated churches and religious institutions) take this stuff more seriously than their kids, and so force them to marry when they learn that they've been having sex (teenagers having sex? SHOCKING!). One friend of mine from high school who was attending BYU was compelled to marry his (then-Catholic) ex-girlfriend - after they'd broken up when he moved to Utah to college, and she'd started dating others - when they somehow learned his sexual history. Neither of them wanted to be together by then (nor did the bride wish to convert to Mormonism), but were guilted into it under threat of ruining the husband's college prospects and social standing. Some "sacred institution," eh?
 
Actually I do know one Guy, my sister's feonce and my sister are both like that. Im slightly worried about the 2 of them concidering they got engaged before sharing money, living with eachother or having sex. Actually mother of them has ever lived away from home at all.
 
Sacred, indeed

Quadraphonics said:

Some "sacred institution," eh?

And speaking of that .... So, anyway, I see by the Baltimore Sun article that the future Mrs. Peters and her beau plan to hitch up in Vegas, at the Elvis chapel.
 
And speaking of that .... So, anyway, I see by the Baltimore Sun article that the future Mrs. Peters and her beau plan to hitch up in Vegas, at the Elvis chapel.


Well, love me tender...Doesn't get more sacred than that..
 
Hunka hunka burnin' love

Gremmie said:

Well, love me tender...Doesn't get more sacred than that..

Especially when you share it with your favorite hunk of burning love.
 
If only I was an Elvis fan ....

Singing, "Don't be cruel", after crying in the chapel.

And, yes, I have to work harder and harder for each of these.
 
Singing, "Don't be cruel", after crying in the chapel.

And, yes, I have to work harder and harder for each of these.


After that, ya just move on, buy a teddy bear, and go for her little sister...

Yeah, I'm running low too..lol
 
I have a sentimental streak and I always enjoy hearing about things like this. Yeah sure, misuse of government resources, yatta yatta. It doesn't happen that often and besides, the lesson about true love and its expression may have been the best thing the kids learned that week.

But I'm also sentimental enough to feel really bad about all the gay people who cannot do things like this.

Janis Ian told us about taking her girlfriend to a sci-fi convention in Toronto, and once they arrived they decided to get married, since it's legal there. When they registered at the hotel the clerk asked why they were in town, and before she could say, "the convention," her normally reserved partner giddily blurted out, "We're getting married!" The beaming clerk gave them the bridal suite at no extra charge, and the staff made their dinner a wonderful event. Everywhere they went in Toronto people wished them well, took their pictures, bought them champagne, and swapped stories about their own (straight) weddings. The wedding itself was joyous mayhem, crashed by dozens of strangers happy to help them celebrate.

She finished the story by saying, "And then we came home."

Still, sometimes I'm proud to be a North American. Since she told us that anecdote, gay marriage is now legal in all three capitals: Mexico City, Toronto and Washington.

We would have it in California, but our state's large Latino and Afro-American blocs voted it down. It's a shame that people who are so familiar with being on the wrong end of discrimination can so easily dish it out to others.
 
I think this isn't a question of sexuality, so much as it is a question of romance. Or, at least I hope that is the case.

For instance, there is a new Disney movie out in theaters now. Tangled I think is it's name. It is an updated take on an old tale, the Rapunzel fairy tale. Yet. . . it doesn't have two male characters, or two female characters. . . it has one of both. But this isn't about sexuality, it's a kids movie, right? And this is what human cultures traditionally like to see in tales of "romance." See, and this is exactly about that, about "romance," or differences. And learning to bond through those differences. I myself haven't seen the film, but we all know the tale of Rapunzel. And why aren't any of the old fairy tales involving two same sex characters? These tales go back centuries.

Is it because fairy tales have been systematically repressed to not include fairies? :p No, I don't think so. Do fairy tales have anything to do with "sexuality?" Nah, not ostensibly, I don't think so. They have more to do with our ideal of "romance." As such, the whole idea of "homosexual romance" is sort of an oxymoron. So in the situation you described, this is almost a scene out of a movie. . . it instructs the children on romance. Does this mean that homosexual couples can't be "romantic?" Quite the contrary, most homosexual men have more an eye for, and more a notion of what is romantic, than your average heterosexual male. Yet, that feeling of what is romance, to general society at large, necessitates both sexes be included. It has nothing to do with a sexual component though. What IS romantic, is something elusive, yet people know it when they feel it. A moonlit walk along a river bank? Romantic. A rotting landfill at high noon? Not so much. A young prince charming and his princess held in an embrace under an umbrella in the rain, romantic. Two studly hairy buff men holding hands going for a walk while working out. . . not so much.

In this entire definition of "romance" not once did the three letter combination "sex" occur. Ponder that one. . . :rolleyes:
Romance
n [rəˈmæns ˈrəʊmæns]
1. a love affair, esp an intense and happy but short-lived affair involving young people
2. love, esp romantic love idealized for its purity or beauty
3. a spirit of or inclination for adventure, excitement, or mystery
4. a mysterious, exciting, sentimental, or nostalgic quality, esp one associated with a place
5. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) a narrative in verse or prose, written in a vernacular language in the Middle Ages, dealing with strange and exciting adventures of chivalrous heroes
6. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) any similar narrative work dealing with events and characters remote from ordinary life
7. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) the literary genre represented by works of these kinds
8. (Literature / Poetry) (in Spanish literature) a short narrative poem, usually an epic or historical ballad
9. a story, novel, film, etc., dealing with love, usually in an idealized or sentimental way
10. an extravagant, absurd, or fantastic account or explanation
11. (Music, other) a lyrical song or short instrumental composition having a simple melody
vb [rəˈmæns]
1. (intr) to tell, invent, or write extravagant or romantic fictions
2. (intr) to tell extravagant or improbable lies
3. (intr) to have romantic thoughts
4. (intr) (of a couple) to indulge in romantic behaviour
5. (tr) to be romantically involved with
[romauns, from Old French romans, ultimately from Latin Rōmānicus Roman]

So you be the judge Tiassa. Really? The scenario you envisioned, would THAT really be all that romantic? Would it sell out at the box office? Would it inspire the next generation and teach the boys and girls in their heart about romance? Or possible upset them, creep some of them out, and cause a ruckus with their parents? It isn't exactly the most romantic of images. . .

But then, I guess what IS romance can sometimes be in the eye of the beholder, can't it? I find the movie Harold and Maude touching and romantic. . . others find the whole notion sick and demented. So whose to say? :)
 
Of course, not everyone is happy. More specifically, a local tipper forwarded the story to sex-advice columnist and newspaper editor Dan Savage with the following comment:

"When I read this article about how a woman's boyfriend used her employer's (a school) sign to propose to her and then how the kids later commented on her ring, I contrasted that with the fact that I can be fired if kids find out too much about my personal life. It's flaunting their sexuality is what it is. And it's the sort of double standard that straight people just don't understand."
Dear local tipper - get stuffed. Your whinning little rant in the local newspaper is flaunting your whinny little bitchiness. That's what that is. It's the sort of rant about a double standard that is itself a double standard. Subjecting us to your whinning and bitching.

Jesus H Christ get a f*cking life.

Note: Society changes slowly with education not with whinny little bitches whinning and bitching.
 
Imagine that

Michael said:

Dear local tipper - get stuffed. Your whinning little rant in the local newspaper is flaunting your whinny little bitchiness. That's what that is. It's the sort of rant about a double standard that is itself a double standard. Subjecting us to your whinning and bitching.

Jesus H Christ get a f*cking life.

Note: Society changes slowly with education not with whinny little bitches whinning and bitching.

Truth sting a little?

Education sometimes requires pointing out the obvious.

And, of course, those being educated generally get pissy about that sort of thing.
 
Someone put a sign up to be romantic at the local school to propose, something 99.99999% of the community and students probably think is cute and support and one lone whinny bitch wants to stop this because this small town societiy isn't mature enough to accept his/her sexuality. Well tough titty. It's this exact type of personality that whine about Merry Christmas because it "offends them" even though it's not harming anyone and 99.999999999999999% of the public take it as culture.

One day we'll whine ourselves into zero culture. Everything will be PC and we'll have to stop all verbal communication ... hell, ALL communication, just eyes down and interact with a vending machine....


:p
 
How dare that teacher wear a skirt - that's flaunting her sexy legs and I'm a fat little porker who wants to whine - *oink* Down With Skirts! *snort*

I mean please - enough already, little whiny bitches are so irritating. In the past they were ignored and they did the proper thing and lived alone on the edge of town with their cats... :D
 
I'm a fat little porker who wants to whine - *oink* Down With Skirts! *snort*

little whiny bitches are so irritating. In the past they were ignored and they did the proper thing and lived alone on the edge of town with their cats... :D

You have no idea how true that is...

You just described my aunt...:p
 
By the Gods tell me she doesn't live with a bunch of cats!!!


Yeah, I think she has around a dozen in her house...Why she's always alone.:bugeye:

But, to get back on topic..She is the type, that would report that sign..She's a miserable old thing.
 
Hey I live with a bunch of cats, you speciesists! :mad:

Meanwhile, what is stopping the heterosexually challenged from romantic overtures to their significant other? Isn't discrimination on the basis of sexuality illeglal?

IOW, what would happen if a the other half of a gay couple made a romantic gesture like that?
 
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