File sharing debate, it tells a lot about America's culture

grazzhoppa

yawwn
Valued Senior Member
If you'd rather not read all this it basically breaks down into....

Does art promote a better society, and do the seemingly normal business goals of big business interfere with the growth of ethics, morals, and art forms in society?


What do you think are the motives of the RIAA for taking a hard ass approach towards free music downloading? There isn't any proof from the RIAA that can stand without shady/contrived statistics for them losing money in the past few years. I mean, the USA has a bad economy compared to the late 90's...yet the RIAA is bitching about how its industry is losing money. Most of the statistics in favor of the RIAA's case were comparing a crappy economy to a thriving one.

and you may want to consider this: the value of art and music according to young, file sharers vs. US copyright law according to the music industry.


There are lots of questions about why the RIAA (Recording Industry of America Association) is willing to bring law suits to hundreds of people (about 250 last month, and more are promised to come) when the organization claims it has lost over $2 billion dollars to file sharing. One question that glares so brightly is why lawsuits are being settled out of court for a couple thousand dollars when the original suit was for $150,000 a song shared, and the people sued are the ones sharing 1000's of songs. The RIAA is trying to deter people from sharing music by posting some ridiculous money figure and suing people for it. Being sued for $150,000 per song shared will ruin the life of the defendant, it would put them into poverty for the rest of their lives.

Although the stakes are high for the penalty, we have seen deterrence strategies do not work when the people who are thinking about committing the act are opposed or just don't care about the morality/ethics of the crime. The death penalty is a prime and tried example. The law will take your LIFE if you kill, but we (the USA) still have one of the highest murder rates of the world. When a person doesn't care about the why a law is the way it is, they will most likely overlook the high penalties. How many people who seriously thought about murdering a person do you think changed their mind because they might lose their life if they are caught? The same reasoning is for file sharers. They do not have any problems with the ethics of disobeying the laws about copyrighted material, and they think the songs they are getting are worth the risk of being singled out of millions of other people. Suing a select few people will ruin those people's lives, not gain back the $2 billion the RIAA has "lost," or have a significant impact to deter other file sharers. The RIAA’s legal fees are probably making them lose more money than they already have.

The bulk of file sharers are younger folks, college age and younger. What this controversy over file sharing sheds light on are the issues of today’s youth’s ethics. Why does breaking the law appeal to so many file sharers, particularly the young ones? The answer might as well be they think today’s music is worthless of monetary value (or priceless if you’re the glass-half-full kind of person) and deserves to be freely available. This issue is far from the reaches of politicians and lawyers, who manipulate the law to suit their needs, so where did these ideals spawn from?

It would be most likely be from the extreme commercialization of music since music videos became a staple in marketing to the RIAA’s best customers – young people. The 1990’s brought a fury of video marketing to teens through MTV which showcased pop culture, tailored and fitted for the music industry’s profit making. Maybe it was after the short-lived “grunge era” of music in the early 90’s that the industry realized they could easily lose record sales to artists who care more about the art of music than buying 3 exotic cars with their money.

My spin on the music marketing and its history, it's more for background info than making a point:
As with every ‘era’ of popular music, recording companies would copy cat a formula for success until a new formula was discovered. That formula is called pop music, no matter what genre or decade it came from. Although unlike previous decades of pop music, in the 90’s record companies utilized music videos and MTV as their main element of pop music, and radio play time a lesser factor of record selling success than a video regularly played on MTV. If a song didn’t have a good video, it would not sell. But overexposure is one factor that will always remain constant. And as TV as done in the past, it gives its viewers someone and something to hate when they feel angry. In this case when the audience was tired of a song, they could see the artist on the TV and take their frustration out on them.

In 1999 the RIAA had its recording breaking year for record sales which was practically all attributed to a major success in the pop music formula and successful marketing to teens through MTV. But around 1999, the aggression of pop music’s best consumer, teens, was focused on the artists and the integrity of the pop music formula. Overexposure of the formula had turned ugly. The music industry quickly dropped their so called “manufactured bands” from the top spotlight and went for singer/songwriter and punkish types of artists, who are more easily marketed as having artistic integrity to teens. It was too late for the change though. File sharing programs had become common and the downloading had begun.


The music industry is taking heat for commercializing their top prospects and profit making artists, so consumers are glad to take a less commercialized approach to getting their music, through file sharing. This raises more questions, a lot more.

The music industry has always been a little sleazy, but is their pursuit of banning file sharing programs an attempt to dominate the art form of music? Meaning, does the RIAA want to crush all independent artists….what are the motives behind their extremely aggressive approach towards shutting file sharing down? Could this be the turning point, a much needed reform of morals and ethics of big business in America’s consumer market? The RIAA is putting its balls on a chopping block here, with its aggressive lawsuits and outlandish remarks towards file sharing….they could very well be castrated by the US courts. It’s too early in this controversy to predict how the court systems will view it….purely legal or from an ethical viewpoint.

Does art have a value in America’s morals anymore? Paintings belong in museums with rich people, and music/movies belong to organizations (it could be considered a monopolies) of recording companies? Are ‘normal people’ entitled to art without having to be strung along the consumer-buying game of the US’s market economy? Maybe art shouldn’t have a value in society, or maybe it should…such as $14 for a CD and $10 for a movie viewing.

Does mass sharing of music freely over the internet signify a change in an upcoming cultural attitude? File sharing may the tip of what the Internet has to offer society. The cultural/regional gaps in America will significantly decrease as the internet become widely available and usable in areas. Sharing music bypasses the controlled flow of the RIAA’s music. The marketing of pop music, or the formula for profit, might be seeing it’s last days if file sharing becomes big enough an ethical issue.

The RIAA is trying to keep music listeners in their demographics by discouraging file sharing. But when cultural and musical diversity is encouraged on the Internet, the demographics merge together and the lines of who’s a “rap lover” or “country lover” are blurred. Marketing to those blurred types of consumers costs much more because you have to spread your resources over a larger area than focusing your efforts and money towards the formula that will clearly bring the most profit. There are hundreds of quality albums produced through the RIAA but are never released on a full scale because those albums don’t fit the profit making demographics, and god forbid the RIAA loses money in taking a business risk! While trying to keep their strangle hold on the art form of music in America, the RIAA risks stifling a cultural awakening that is beginning with file sharing.

This is kind of a rough draft for a paper, but more for me sorting out some things that were bothing me. Sorry, but it may read like a term paper. I just jotted down what I thought of this issue. It's been pissing me off lately.

So, do you think if the courts rule in favor of shutting down file sharing because of the music controversy, the US will have missed a chance to grow as society, where art and information is valued more for integrity than it's materialistic value?
 
So, do you think if the courts rule in favor of shutting down file sharing because of the music controversy, the US will have missed a chance to grow as society, where art and information is valued more for integrity than it's materialistic value?

I don't see it as so much as a chokehold on the growth of US society's cultural side even though file sharing has shed some positive light on unknown artists and given them a chance to tap the mainstream with their style. This whole filing of lawsuits is just scare tactics. Even the RIAA, as moronic as they come off, didn't expect these lawsuits to bring file sharing to a complete halt, they just wanted to scare people out of the vice and it worked. In the first week of this RIAA crackdown Kazaa had lost 17% of it's users due to fear of a lawsuit.

Music today, it seems, has a skewed view in society and in the eyes of File sharers. When they download, their excuse is that this music's sales will not go to the artist, they will go to the fat cats in the suits and they are pretty much right in thinking that way. RIAA is on a lawsuit blitz to protect the financial gains of those very same FAT CATS so it seems the artist is left out of the battle, either way the artists loses out in the end right? This makes flie sharing even more lucrative then doesn't it? You aren't hurting you favorite band really, you're striking down the evil corporate MAN. Does it still make it right though?

Does art promote a better society, and do the seemingly normal business goals of big business interfere with the growth of ethics, morals, and art forms in society?

Now i ask you this. File sharing to spite the corporate execs is wrong? Isn't this a drawback on society's growth in ethics and morals. Most fans will still buy the cds of their favorite bands to support them but those who file share the major artists, the already rich ones, does it make it any less destructive to do so? Sure they aren't being hurt much if they can still afford to guzzle fuel in their Ferrari's but seeing it as a non-destructive to these artists does it make it anymore right to share their music illegaly? Isn't that dumbing down your morals and ethics to justify your, very apparent, greed? That, to me seems, is just as much the society's fault as it is the big-buisnesses fault in the halt of US's growth morally.
 
How does stealing other people's work add to culture or art?

Music today, it seems, has a skewed view in society and in the eyes of File sharers. When they download, their excuse is that this music's sales will not go to the artist, they will go to the fat cats in the suits and they are pretty much right in thinking that way. RIAA is on a lawsuit blitz to protect the financial gains of those very same FAT CATS so it seems the artist is left out of the battle, either way the artists loses out in the end right? This makes flie sharing even more lucrative then doesn't it? You aren't hurting you favorite band really, you're striking down the evil corporate MAN. Does it still make it right though?

Artists get royalties from sales of their music, so it is not true to say that no money goes to artists.

And you <b>are</b> hurting your favorite band when you copy their music rather than paying for it. Who do you think enables recording and distribution of music in the first place? Answer: record companies. Hurt the record companies and you hurt the music industry as a whole, including everybody who makes their living from it.
 
Originally posted by James R
How does stealing other people's work add to culture or art?



Artists get royalties from sales of their music, so it is not true to say that no money goes to artists.

And you <b>are</b> hurting your favorite band when you copy their music rather than paying for it. Who do you think enables recording and distribution of music in the first place? Answer: record companies. Hurt the record companies and you hurt the music industry as a whole, including everybody who makes their living from it.

Exactly. This is the point i was trying to arrive at. Taking music unlawfully and justifying it as a distribution of culture is a flawed argument. Music maybe culture but it is also bread and butter for many of those involved in it's creation.
 
I always get annoyed when I see people try to depict stealing music as some sort of morally justifiable crusade to liberate culture. Music is a part of our culture only in the same way that pretty much any form of expression or entertainment is part of our culture.

We aren’t talking about a vital commodity like food or electricity. The bottom line is that music is a luxury entertainment item; if you don't think that a CD is worth its price then you are free to not buy it and be no worse off than you were before.
 
Double standards

Consider this:
Public libraries are commonplace everywhere. According to my country’s law, every publisher MUST provide some FREE copies of every book he publishes to state library. Farther, he must send an official offer to other libraries. Now tell me – how many times you read any single book? Usually just once, I suppose. So whoever borrows book from library most probably never buys it. He buys it only if he finds the book valuable enough to make it part of his home library. Definitely both – the writer as well as the publisher – are losing profit this way. Yet nobody complains about libraries.
Now for P2P – yes, it definitely hurts major companies as well as bands like Metallica etc. -but not only by the means of downloading their stuff. In fact, their traditional markets are almost intact. People, who rely on MTV as a primary (or sole) source of information about new music, still buy CD’s as they were used to. More “dangerous” is that via P2P people do not share only files, they also share information! There are chats, web forums etc., where people talk about music they like. This way you can learn about cool band from Lithuania which has zero chance to ever appear in MTV. Most music I listen to nowadays comes from P2P – interesting music never available in MTV. If I like some album there is fair chance I finally buy it – if available (that’s another problem – music of this kind comes quite often from self-released albums with only 200 copies or so. P2P is therefore the only means how to spread this music). And I know many people who do exactly the same – they dl stuff and buy only what they like – most often CD’s from small, independent labels or directly from artists. So there is no wonder RIAA is losing money – but not because of theft but because of fair competition!
 
Some people download the songs because they don't want to buy a whole CD for just song. But there is no excuse for stealing. If you just want one song, get it off the new Napster or Apple Music. It would be cheaper than buying a whole CD.

Also, downloading music does hurt the music industry. Sure, there are the "fat cats" and the artists who have lots of money, but then there are the people who work for them. When people download music, the recording industry won't need to make as many products for shipment. Thus, this leads to people who have to get laid off.
 
Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Raha
Consider this:
Public libraries are commonplace everywhere. According to my country’s law, every publisher MUST provide some FREE copies of every book he publishes to state library. Farther, he must send an official offer to other libraries. Now tell me – how many times you read any single book? Usually just once, I suppose. So whoever borrows book from library most probably never buys it. He buys it only if he finds the book valuable enough to make it part of his home library. Definitely both – the writer as well as the publisher – are losing profit this way. Yet nobody complains about libraries.
The difference, of course, is that it's beneficial to the United States if its citizens are literate and have easy access to information. People listening to Metallica is of no discernable benefit to US society.
 
Re: Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Nasor
The difference, of course, is that it's beneficial to the United States if its citizens are literate and have easy access to information. People listening to Metallica is of no discernable benefit to US society.

Nice point, but why should writers and publishers pay it from their own pocket?
 
Re: Re: Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Raha
Nice point, but why should writers and publishers pay it from their own pocket?
Call it another tax if you want.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Nasor
Call it another tax if you want.

OK. But than the “tax” is discriminatory. Why people can have free access to books on the expense of writers and publishers and not to music, movies etc.?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Raha
OK. But than the “tax” is discriminatory. Why people can have free access to books on the expense of writers and publishers and not to music, movies etc.?
Again: it's beneficial to the United States if its citizens are literate and have easy access to information. People listening to Metallica is of no discernable benefit to US society.

It's also worth noting that most libraries carry music and movies.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Nasor
Again: it's beneficial to the United States if its citizens are literate and have easy access to information. People listening to Metallica is of no discernable benefit to US society.

Again – if it is state policy, than government should compensate writers and publisher for the loss of the profit.

Originally posted by Nasor
It's also worth noting that most libraries carry music and movies.

Yes, I am aware of that, but I deliberately avoided mentioning it, because it actually speaks in favor of P2P sharing not against it. If anybody can go to library and borrow CD, DVD or video tape and copy them, what’s so wrong about P2P?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Raha
Again – if it is state policy, than government should compensate writers and publisher for the loss of the profit.
And again, you can consider it to be just another tax on them. Yes, this means that the book publishers are paying a special tax that applies only to them. This is nothing new; the government does it all the time to all sorts of industries. Car makers, tobacco companies, steel importers…
Yes, I am aware of that, but I deliberately avoided mentioning it, because it actually speaks in favor of P2P sharing not against it. If anybody can go to library and borrow CD, DVD or video tape and copy them, what’s so wrong about P2P?
It's illegal to copy the movies or music that you borrow from libraries.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Nasor
Yes, this means that the book publishers are paying a special tax that applies only to them. This is nothing new; the government does it all the time to all sorts of industries. Car makers, tobacco companies, steel importers…[/B]

No your logic is just beautiful! Special taxes are applied where you want discourage people from buying that particular commodity extensively – cars are harmful to environment, tobacco to human health, imported steel to domestic producers. Now you said that books are good because they help educate people. But those, who make them, pay special tax. Bravo!

Originally posted by Nasor
It's illegal to copy the movies or music that you borrow from libraries.

Yes, but as far as I know, people are not prosecuted for actually copying something, but for SHARING it – that is, for providing access to copyrighted material – the very same thing libraries do.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Double standards

Originally posted by Raha
No your logic is just beautiful! Special taxes are applied where you want discourage people from buying that particular commodity extensively – cars are harmful to environment, tobacco to human health, imported steel to domestic producers. Now you said that books are good because they help educate people. But those, who make them, pay special tax.
I don't know where you got the idea that the government only imposes special financial burdens on industries that it wants to discourage. Rent controls are an example of the government cutting into an industry's profit even though it's a 'good' industry. Anyway, the issue of whether or not publishing companies should be compensated for the money that they lose to libraries isn't relevant to the file sharing question.
Yes, but as far as I know, people are not prosecuted for actually copying something, but for SHARING it – that is, for providing access to copyrighted material – the very same thing libraries do.
The difference is that file sharers are providing illegal copies, while libraries are providing legal ones. It's legal for you to let your friend borrow a music CD that you've purchased. It's illegal for you to make a copy of a CD and give it to a friend.
 
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