Fermentation linked to cancer?

Your link is too much, IMHO, focused on the changes in cancer cell’s metabolic processes, and totally ignores the changes that prevent reduction in telomere length with cell division. That is what permits cancer cells, unlike normal cells, to divide an unlimited number of times; but it is true that the cancer cell walls do undergo some structural changes. That is the basis for a promising new cancer therapy now being developed:

“Currently in Phase II clinical development, bavituximab is the first in a new class of patented lipid-targeting antibodies that targets and binds to the cellular membrane component phosphatidylserine (PS). PS is a highly immunosuppressive molecule usually located inside cells, but which becomes exposed on the outside of cells that line tumor blood vessels, creating a specific target for treatment. Bavituximab induces immune cell-mediated destruction of cells with exposed PS and is believed to reactivate the immune system’s response to cancer by blocking PS-mediated immunosuppression. Additionally, as chemotherapy increases the exposure of PS on tumor blood vessels, bavituximab combined with chemotherapy may hold potential for synergistic therapeutic effects.”

From: web page of www.Peregrineinc.com, which I have had shares in for years but not much profit. (I even sold some at a loss in Sept 2009 as I needed some losses for tax reasons.) Unlike the marketed multi-million dollar drug, Avastin, Bavituximab activates the body’s own system for killing cancer cells and seems to be completely non-toxic. It appears to work on all solid cancers tested and probably on many viral infections*:

“Enrollment is complete in a Phase Ib clinical trial evaluating bavituximab in patients co-infected with chronic HCV and HIV. … In prior Phase I trials in patients with chronic HCV infection, bavituximab appeared safe and well tolerated with no dose-limiting toxicities or serious adverse events reported and showed promising signs of dose- dependent anti-viral activity. " - Same company source.

* Anything that damages the cell's normal function, even mechanical injury to cells, will cause the PS molecules to "flip to the outside" of the cell wall. I am just speculating, but think that is why this flipping occurs. - It makes a "flag" telling the immune system (and other natural process?): "Hey this cell is not working right - come and kill it so it can be removed from the body."
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S.A.M.'s post 24 is interesting, but they seem to need significant volume of solid tumor. (not very sensitive?) Also they say nothing about cost per test, which is important for a screening tool, and their test seems to inherently require follow up visits by the patient - not very good for screening.
 
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Your link is too much, IMHO, focused on the changes in cancer cell’s metabolic processes, and totally ignores the changes that prevent reduction in telomere length with cell division. That is what permits cancer cells, unlike normal cells, to divide an unlimited number of times; but it is true that the cancer cell walls do undergo some structural changes. That is the basis for a promising new cancer therapy now being developed:

Thanks. However will that not be secondary(i.e. post mutations)? Prime understanding can be at first place, why/how normal cells get cancer mutaions? Whether odd exposures changes some physiology which encourage such mutations? That link somewhat suggest that, odd exposures cause reduced Oxigen>> fermentations/partly metabolised sugar>>lactic acid>>acidic conditions>>transcellular movement of K due to acidic conditions & intracellular shift of Na>>cell swelling making cell to become delicate & become more prone to get mutations>>get mutations to become hardy for survival>>cancer. Probably reversing such hardiness or making cells delicate, may lead cells to burst or go to DNA repair or appoptosis.

“Currently in Phase II clinical development, bavituximab is the first in a new class of patented lipid-targeting antibodies that targets and binds to the cellular membrane component phosphatidylserine (PS). PS is a highly immunosuppressive molecule usually located inside cells, but which becomes exposed on the outside of cells that line tumor blood vessels, creating a specific target for treatment. Bavituximab induces immune cell-mediated destruction of cells with exposed PS and is believed to reactivate the immune system’s response to cancer by blocking PS-mediated immunosuppression. Additionally, as chemotherapy increases the exposure of PS on tumor blood vessels, bavituximab combined with chemotherapy may hold potential for synergistic therapeutic effects.”

From: web page of www.Peregrineinc.com, which I have had shares in for years but not much profit. (I even sold some at a loss in Sept 2009 as I needed some losses for tax reasons.) Unlike the marketed multi-million dollar drug, Avastin, Bavituximab activates the body’s own system for killing cancer cells and seems to be completely non-toxic. It appears to work on all solid cancers tested and probably on many viral infections*:

“Enrollment is complete in a Phase Ib clinical trial evaluating bavituximab in patients co-infected with chronic HCV and HIV. … In prior Phase I trials in patients with chronic HCV infection, bavituximab appeared safe and well tolerated with no dose-limiting toxicities or serious adverse events reported and showed promising signs of dose- dependent anti-viral activity. " - Same company source.

* Anything that damages the cell's normal function, even mechanical injury to cells, will cause the PS molecules to "flip to the outside" of the cell wall. I am just speculating, but think that is why this flipping occurs. - It makes a "flag" telling the immune system (and other natural process?): "Hey this cell is not working right - come and kill it so it can be removed from the body."
---------------
S.A.M.'s post 24 is interesting, but they seem to need significant volume of solid tumor. (not very sensitive?) Also they say nothing about cost per test, which is important for a screening tool, and their test seems to inherently require follow up visits by the patient - not very good for screening.

I think, it can be secondary.
 
Thanks. However will that not be secondary(i.e. post mutations)? Prime understanding can be at first place, why/how normal cells get cancer mutations? ...
I am not sure there is any universal agreement on a rule that allows one to state: "Cell A is a cancer cell but Cell B is not." I think in histology exam of extracted tissue, this decision is based on the shape and relative distribution of cells in the sample - i.e. more disorganized pattern than normal, which may indicate too rapid cell division has occured, etc. Nor do I know when in the transformation process to becoming a cancer cell the process that normally shortens the telomeres with division is blocked.

I would tend to think that cells which shorten their telomeres with each cell division can not be considered to be cancer cells as they will die after X cell divisions and do not have unlimited divisions possible as all cancer cells do. I.e. until someone suggest a better rule, this "telomere shorting is blocked" is my rule for telling that "Cell A is a cancer cell but Cell B is not."

Another reason why I think your link's focus on the fluxes of Na+ & K+ is not that important is that the link text states that the positive ion influx does not fully reverse the negative interior of the cell. When a nerve cells makes it action potential, propagating down its axon, the internal potential goes from -70mV to slightly (~3 to 8mV) positive and this can, in some nerves happen 1000 times per second, but most fire only a few hundred times per second.

Most nerves in the brain are active all the time - why the brain takes ~1/3 of your oxygen when you are resting. This is because often it is the change in discharge rate that conveys the information. For example, in V4, where color is processed the same set of nerves indicate both red and green, another set indicates blue vs yellow. I will just make up numbers to more clearly explain: In the dark the blue/yellow set may be firing at 250 discharges per second. Then when you look at intense blue, the discharge rate may fall to 100 pulses/ sec but when viewing intense yellow it may rise to 400p/s. (This from memory so I may have it backwards - i.e. high rate of fire may indicate blue.)

Thus, some brain cells are always rapidly changing the interior potential by larger voltage swings due to ionic fluxes than your link speaks of and most nerves you have as an old adult you had as a baby! Clearly life long greater and continuous ion fluxes can not be very damaging to the cells - don't make cancer cells. If cancer cells swell etc., as the link suggests, the reason for the swelling may be directly related to a long term net imbalance in these fluxes, but that is not the fundamental cause of the cell becoming a cancer cell. Something has gone wrong internally. One thing that has, is that the normal process which shortens telomeres has been blocked. Perhaps some enzyme that cuts off an end piece of the telomere during division is no longer produced?
 
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I am not sure there is any universal agreement on a rule that allows one to state: "Cell A is a cancer cell but Cell B is not." I think in histology exam of extracted tissue, this decision is based on the shape and relative distribution of cells in the sample - i.e. more disorganized pattern than normal, which may indicate too rapid cell division has occured, etc. Nor do I know when in the transformation process to becoming a cancer cell the process that normally shortens the telomeres with division is blocked.

I would tend to think that cells which shorten their telomeres with each cell division can not be considered to be cancer cells as they will die after X cell divisions and do not have unlimited divisions possible as all cancer cells do. I.e. until someone suggest a better rule, this "telomere shorting is blocked" is my rule for telling that "Cell A is a cancer cell but Cell B is not."

Another reason why I think your link's focus on the fluxes of Na+ & K+ is not that important is that the link text states that the positive ion influx does not fully reverse the negative interior of the cell. Clearly life long greater and continuous ion fluxes can not be very damaging to the cells - don't make cancer cells. If cancer cells swell etc., as the link suggests, the reason for the swelling may be directly related to a long term net imbalance in these fluxes, but that is not the fundamental cause of the cell becoming a cancer cell. Something has gone wrong internally. One thing that has, is that the normal process which shortens telomeres has been blocked. Perhaps some enzyme that cuts off an end piece of the telomere during division is no longer produced?

Thanks for detailed explaination. Still a question is there, if mutaion is the cause to cancer(even for getting changes in telomeres etc.), what can cause cells to get these mutations?

I think, abnormalities in telomeres may be somewhat relevanct to activation of stem cells, fast metabolic rate, glycation, O2 abnormalities, oxidative stress, free radicals etc.,

I think, something can be found in following understanding on Senescence:-

Chemical damage

Elderly Klamath woman photographed by Edward S. Curtis in 1924 One of the earliest aging theories was the Rate of Living Hypothesis described by Raymond Pearl in 1928[17](based on earlier work by Max Rubner), which states that fast basal metabolic rate corresponds to short maximum life span.
While there may be some validity to the idea that for various types of specific damage detailed below that are by-products of metabolism, all other things being equal, a fast metabolism may reduce lifespan, in general this theory does not adequately explain the differences in lifespan either within, or between, species. Calorically-restricted animals process as much, or more, calories per gram of body mass, as their ad libitum fed counterparts, yet exhibit substantially longer lifespans.[citation needed] . Similarly, metabolic rate is a poor predictor of lifespan for birds, bats and other species that, it is presumed, have reduced mortality from predation, and therefore have evolved long lifespans even in the presence of very high metabolic rates.[18] More recently, it was shown that, when modern statistical methods for correcting for the effects of body size and phylogeny are employed, metabolic rate does not correlate with longevity in mammals or birds.[19] (For a critique of the Rate of Living Hypothesis see Living fast, dying when?[20])
With respect to specific types of chemical damage caused by metabolism, it is suggested that damage to long-lived biopolymers, such as structural proteins or DNA, caused by ubiquitous chemical agents in the body such as oxygen and sugars, are in part responsible for aging. The damage can include breakage of biopolymer chains, cross-linking of biopolymers, or chemical attachment of unnatural substituents (haptens) to biopolymers.
Under normal aerobic conditions, approximately 4% of the oxygen metabolized by mitochondria is converted to superoxide ion, which can subsequently be converted to hydrogen peroxide, hydroxyl radical and eventually other reactive species including other peroxides and singlet oxygen, which can, in turn, generate free radicals capable of damaging structural proteins and DNA. Certain metal ions found in the body, such as copper and iron, may participate in the process. (In Wilson's disease, a hereditary defect that causes the body to retain copper, some of the symptoms resemble accelerated senescence.) These processes are termed oxidative damage and are linked to the benefits of nutritionally derived polyphenol antioxidants[citation needed].
Sugars such as glucose and fructose can react with certain amino acids such as lysine and arginine and certain DNA bases such as guanine to produce sugar adducts, in a process called glycation. These adducts can further rearrange to form reactive species, which can then cross-link the structural proteins or DNA to similar biopolymers or other biomolecules such as non-structural proteins. People with diabetes, who have elevated blood sugar, develop senescence-associated disorders much earlier than the general population, but can delay such disorders by rigorous control of their blood sugar levels. There is evidence that sugar damage is linked to oxidant damage in a process termed glycoxidation.
Free radicals can damage proteins, lipids or DNA. Glycation mainly damages proteins. Damaged proteins and lipids accumulate in lysosomes as lipofuscin. Chemical damage to structural proteins can lead to loss of function; for example, damage to collagen of blood vessel walls can lead to vessel-wall stiffness and, thus, hypertension, and vessel wall thickening and reactive tissue formation (atherosclerosis); similar processes in the kidney can lead to renal failure. Damage to enzymes reduces cellular functionality. Lipid peroxidation of the inner mitochondrial membrane reduces the electric potential and the ability to generate energy. It is probably no accident that nearly all of the so-called "accelerated aging diseases" are due to defective DNA repair enzymes.
It is believed that the impact of alcohol on aging can be partly explained by alcohol's activation of the HPA axis, which stimulates glucocorticoid secretion, long-term exposure to which produces symptoms of aging.[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senescence

Stem cells activation is said to be related to inflamation, para sympathetc nervous system(good sleep) etc. However in case of cancer, can't say if triggers to deactivation of stem cells stimulation can work. Regards.
 
Under modern environment & lifestyle, I think, reduced O2, acidic conditions, oxidative stress etc. should be more prevalent than their opposite condtions. Hence it can be somewhat relevant to that article.

Further, bit old but this perspective can also have some relevance:-

Iron Loading and Disease Surveillance
Eugene D. Weinberg
Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA

Iron is an oxidant as well as a nutrient for invading microbial and neoplastic cells. Excessive iron in specific tissues and cells (iron loading) promotes development of infection, neoplasia, cardiomyopathy, arthropathy, and various endocrine and possibly neurodegenerative disorders. To contain and detoxify the metal, hosts have evolved an iron withholding defense system, but the system can be compromised by numerous factors. An array of behavioral, medical, and immunologic methods are in place or in development to strengthen iron withholding. Routine screening for iron loading could provide valuable information in epidemiologic, diagnostic, prophylactic, and therapeutic studies of emerging infectious diseases.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no3/weinberg.htm

Low iron, Low O2 & lactic acid can be related.
 
Excess iron is linked to neoplasia in that link. Withholding of iron is related to defence mechanism. Pls look at bolded letters.

"Iron is an oxidant as well as a nutrient for invading microbial and neoplastic cells. Excessive iron in specific tissues and cells (iron loading) promotes development of infection, neoplasia, cardiomyopathy, arthropathy, and various endocrine and possibly neurodegenerative disorders. To contain and detoxify the metal, hosts have evolved an iron withholding defense system, but the system can be compromised by numerous factors. An array of behavioral, medical, and immunologic methods are in place or in development to strengthen iron withholding. Routine screening for iron loading could provide valuable information in epidemiologic, diagnostic, prophylactic, and therapeutic studies of emerging infectious diseases. "

If low iron can cause low O2 levels and so increased lactic acid in tumor site, in some way it may be a defence mechnism, if such lantic acid shift K from cells & Na into cells, making cells to swell & become delicate.
 
Can you comment on it;-

http://ezinearticles.com/?Oxygen,-Sodium,-and-Cancer&id=2867740

Fermentation can be related to lactic acid development.

Sounds like a load of BS to me. Lactic acid "develops" i.e. is produced as the end product of incomplete breakdown of glucose in all organisms that use anaerobic fermentation to break down glucose from the amoeba upwards. Its the source of energy in very quick movements when the body cannot wait for oxygen supply and breaks down glucose in the absence of oxygen. It is the basic process of glycolysis in all energy requiring beings where oxygen supply is limiting. Every sprinter uses anaerobic glycolysis. Every exercise produces lactic acid. What we call "recovery" in sport is not just replenishing of lost minerals and water and repair of muscles but also the removal of lactate from the blood - this is a feature that is enhanced by training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_glycolysis

The rest of the article goes downhill from there
 
Sounds like a load of BS to me. Lactic acid "develops" i.e. is produced as the end product of incomplete breakdown of glucose in all organisms that use anaerobic fermentation to break down glucose from the amoeba upwards. Its the source of energy in very quick movements when the body cannot wait for oxygen supply and breaks down glucose in the absence of oxygen. It is the basic process of glycolysis in all energy requiring beings where oxygen supply is limiting. Every sprinter uses anaerobic glycolysis. Every exercise produces lactic acid. What we call "recovery" in sport is not just replenishing of lost minerals and water and repair of muscles but also the removal of lactate from the blood - this is a feature that is enhanced by training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_glycolysis

The rest of the article goes downhill from there

Yes but chronic abnormality on any thing--good or bad can be harmful. In diabetes, glucose is a normal nutrient but its chronic abnormality can make one diabetic.

What modern lifestule & polluted environment can give to our body? Is it low O2, acidic conditions, oxidative stress, stress or otherway?
 
Real science of cancer seems to be not yet fully clear. As such, looking deeply at different ideas may sometime help to better understand it. Looking and cutting/treating the dead roots of a tree may be more helpful to achieve the cure whereas just pruning dead, diseased or excessive branches can be considered as treatment for the time being but not the cure.
 
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