femisum, again

step314

Registered Senior Member
To me, what is bad about his behavior is not so much his having sex with other females as his hurting you while doing it. The important responsibiities of a husband IMHO involve caring, which responsibilites he is very flagrantly disregarding by, e.g., threatening to sell the house to get more new sex. That said, it matters what the sexual emotions of a husband have been prior to having sex (my theory is that such emotions affect sperm development, which takes about two months). So basically, every time a husband has unholy emotions for a mistress, it makes him less able to love his wife in a special way for about two months. So a husband shouldn't really dally with females who are both not serious and not well-loved. But wanting to please a husband by allowing him to have sex with a mistress who really wants sex with him, is I think a nice thing to do, so I don't think you should feel bad about yourself for wanting to give in that far; realistically, the pleasure a husband can get from that is much greater than whatever harm (if any) accrues to the wife.

"Swinging" seems kind of silly and stupid to me. I suspect it is something men invented to make it seem like their being allowed to take mistresses is balanced by giving the wife the opportunity of being promiscuous. Indeed, I don't think females naturally want to be promiscuous. If a husband really wants to be just to his wife he should make her understand that he would not resent her committing secret adultery with a paramour if she loves such paramour much more than him--that is a freedom a wife could appreciate.

I would say that you are definitely justified in leaving your husband, but of course the decision is yours.
 
Step for once SHUT UP, this is my personal opnion not my opinion as a mod (YET)

this person came here for surport and you are using it for your own crusade about how evil men are

well you want to know something

a girl once told me that females are MORE likly to cheat because they are more fickle

xev thinks that BOTH sexs are inhernently cheaters (simple biology), except that for guys its the herim instint (ie lots of females openly and they would all protect the children, look at a lion colony) where as for FEMALES its secretive (cant let the guy find out cause that would remove the protection for my children)

the only evil comes from feminists like you who feel that someones emotions are a playground for your idiological cause

you have a thread to do this in STICK TO IT


Cassidy: i apologise for hijacking your thread, i hope you have found some Comfort in what the people here have said and can see the path YOU must take, in the end you can only help yourself and untill u do that you cant help anyone else, including him
 
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xev thinks that BOTH sexs are inhernently cheaters (simple biology
I see. Because Xev thinks that it must be true. *nods sagely*

Step314 presented everything he/she(I suspect she) said honestly, coherently, and intelligently, yet you vaguely threaten to moderate it in your garbled post.

except that for guys its the herim instint (ie lots of females openly and they would all protect the children, look at a lion colony) where as for FEMALES its secretive (cant let the guy find out cause that would remove the protection for my children)
I've heard the argument before, and while it makes some sense, that doesn't mean it is right for us thinking, rational human beings to do it.

There are many animals that are monogamous, and we can be monogamous. For birds, a quick search reveals that plovers and sandpipers are monogamous, and I always heard bald eagles were. Even if we aren't biologically monogamous(I strongly suspect we are) we are socially monogamous, which is significant.

I don't think we're meant to be "swingers", and I don't think we should try, especially when you note Cassidy's post. I'd hazard a guess that it just ends in heartache. A hedonistic lifestyle seems be pretty empty.

the only evil comes from feminists like you who feel that someones emotions are a playground for your idiological cause
Perhaps that should be moderated?
 
i have spit the threads, anymore off topic stuff there will be deleted no questions and no explination, want to play do it in THIS thread, insted of hijacking someone elses thread for sick amusment
 
You misread the title, this is about femisum, not feminism, and I might add that I, for one, am for femisum, in all its forms.
 
Shame, Molinism

Step314 presented everything he/she(I suspect she) said honestly, coherently, and intelligently, yet you vaguely threaten to moderate it in your garbled post.

Thanks for supporting me, Balder1. I haven't a clue what about my post warranted its being split off from its original thread. Everything I said was relevant to the matter of how Cassidy should view her situation.

Perhaps a female pressured Asguard into treating me so uncivilly. I'm at a loss for any other explanation.

I'm definitely a "he", btw.

It is true that females who feel bad about themselves are more likely to find solace in people with ideas more normal than mine. But its not as though I insulted the people in that thread who possessed more standard ideas of the propriety of husbands having sex outside marriage. In fact, I agreed with the majority in the important matter of whether she be justified in leaving her swinging husband, and would be the first to agree that she would do much better to accept the opinions and advice of the majority of the responses in that thread than to continue in her present situation.

As for whether Cassidy should be ashamed of her behavior, maybe she should be rather ashamed of it? If a female is not to feel ashamed of her own promiscuity, what exactly is the purpose of shame? Why have people evolved to be able to possess it? Certain people make out that shame reflects a hurt that will be experienced when people no longer love you when they find out about your sins, and that is bad. But I did no such thing for it is not what I believe is the case. Repent and (if appropriate) undergo penance, and God (if he exists), other people, and your own conscience will treat you pretty much like new and you won't have lost much except time. (I don't wish to make an assertion here as to whether Cassidy as penance should try to set things right with her first husband as I do not have sufficient data as to whether she should have left him, and can well imagine, for example, that her family would be much wiser about that than I. Perhaps her opinion toward her first husband is something she herself should work out after having left her second husband sufficiently to have regained clear-headedness, I don't know.) I do think that her children probably ought to be very more important to her than her sex life, since I rather doubt she wants more children.

The purpose of shame reminds me of the 16th-century controversy regarding grace. The orthodox Thomists believed that efficacious grace (grace that can't be resisted) is efficacious because it is the peculiar nature of this grace that it should be ineluctable (roughly--I'm not a theologian--because God as prime mover caused a chain of events that made the sinner such as to find it and not resist it). The notion of a behavior being ineluctable was weaker than the notion of a behavior being forced, and so Aquinas allowed that God can reform strongly--not hesitating when he wants to elicit the full of arsenal of emotions (like shame, I suppose) that lead sinners to repentance--without actually allowing that such repentance is or should be forced. Quite an ingenious solution, IMO, and the cleverest thing about theology that I am familiar with. But then in the late 16th-century, the Molinists (Jesuits mostly) tried to water it all down to protect free will, thereby giving the impression (the philosophy is obscure) that God doesn't go farther in encouraging repentance than the person to be reformed wants even if the person to be reformed willingly (or should I say grudgingly) allows one to go farther. I don't think my ideal God would be so unkind to be less than entirely graceful except from a kind of necessity that occurs because it is unavoidable that allowing more forceful reforming would make the world worse in some other respect (as one can imagine inasmuch as the difficulty of separating natural will from sinful artificial will might make it impossible for the mechanisms of reform to behave according to rules that always can distinguish which will the person to be reformed is under the sway of). As Leibniz (who respected Aquinas) might say, ours is the best of all possible worlds, no better.

Since presumably in most ways people believe that they should try to behave divinely, Molinism encourages excessive hesitance as regards reforming and rescuing people. The Catholics were weak, ultimately not declaring Molinism a heresy (as apparently the Dominicans, who opposed the Jesuits, wanted), and I shouldn't be surprised if the decline of Spain (where the controversy most raged) was largely on account of Molinism, which in its discouragement of rescuing people forcefully from sin reminds me of the contempt Cervantes had for heroism--part and parcel of the decline in higher chivalrous thought that beset Spain, probably leading to its decline. I'm not Catholic or religious, but I recommend this online Catholic Encyclopedia entry on the controversies surrounding grace for further detail:http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10436a.htm
 
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Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread to be unbelieveably confusing?

The biggest thing I have a problem with is Asguard comming in and saying that step314 is a feminist, because frankly the message I got from his post was "It's ok for husbands to cheat on their wifes, but not for wifes to cheat on their husbands". And for gods sake, I'll admit it, maybe I'm an idiot, but I just have to ask, what is Femisum?
 
Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread to be unbelieveably confusing?
I think Asguard has that effect. :p

Too bad he didn't argue it. This could've been an interesting discussion.
 
step314: you are in dangerous, sexist territory. You really should consider using the term "spouse" instead of "husband" and "wife"

You also seem to have archaic ideas of the roles of men and women. (ie. Husband should...wife should)

You're also quite misguided if you think that women do not or can not want to be permiscuous.

And explain to me how a "wife should appreciate" the kind of freedom that comes from her husband saying "okay" or "okay, but only in secret"

you're misguided on the meaning of freedom methinks as well.
 
You're also quite misguided if you think that women do not or can not want to be permiscuous.

Women do and can want to be promiscuous. They are called sluts. My contention is that women aren't naturally that way. Lots of men are naturally promiscuous, though. It is a stupid assumption that women and men are the same, and therefore stupid to replace the words husband and wife with the word "spouse."

And explain to me how a "wife should appreciate" the kind of freedom that comes from her husband saying "okay" or "okay, but only in secret"

you're misguided on the meaning of freedom methinks as well.

Some wives shut themselves up in their houses all day because if they don't they will get beat up by their husbands. One of the things feminism was against before the movement became silly. I guess you're probably like the mother of the "baby-talk baby-talk it's a wonder you can walk boy."
 
My contention is that women aren't naturally that way.

I'll have to disagree with you on that one. Women can be just as naturally permiscuous as men. It is possible too, for men by their nature to NOT be permiscuous. It depends on the personality of the person.
 
Women can be just as naturally permiscuous as men.

I disagree, but let me clarify my opinion so there is no misunderstanding of what I believe (who knows, maybe we believe the same thing). A woman can naturally decide to want caring from one person while preferring sex from another, and she may naturally decide to have sex with the former person notwithstanding she is having sex with the latter, just to make it plausible to the former that he is loved and is the likely father of any children to whom she might give birth. Also, a female might naturally decide to be a whore and have sex with lots of ne'erdowells for a price. Ne'erdowells have so little chance of getting married or obtaining free mistresses they are not above paying a premium for even diluted sex; so (immoral) females who prefer money to love are not above being promiscuous. However, my belief is that an adulteress doesn't naturally enjoy sex (qua sex) with her husband, but rather the caring that she can get from him by having sex with him while having sex with her paramour. Similarly, a whore doesn't naturally enjoy the promiscuous sex; what she naturally enjoys is the money that her clients pay for it. With men it is not like that, though. What men like about being promiscuous is the promiscuity itself--the actual having sex with lots of females--, and it is a natural desire caused by man's evolutionary need to often impregnate.

Not that you might find exceptions. For example, in Tibet, polyandry may be wrapped up at least partly with selecting for virile sperm. But I think that such a desire for virile sperm is an exception, probably caused by the geography of Tibet making travel so difficult there (my online book discusses this theory of mine). I discussed why females generally prefer weak sperm here: Sperm Selection and Female Orgasm
 
step314:

Have you considered a high-school course in biology and/or extensive psychoanalysis? :rolleyes:
 
A study of human's testes compared to other animals(chimps, monkeys, gorillas) reveals that human males fall into the category of monogamous/polygynous.

http://www.emory.edu/COLLEGE/HYBRIDVIGOR/issue1/mating.htm

But, before you start celebrating with an orgy Xev, that doesn't include females.

Polygyny: the practice of having more than one wife at a time.

Women latch onto whichever strong mate they've found and try to use him for their protection. The sluts are disdained and ridiculed even by the men.

My friend, "You'd fuck that dirty ugly slut? Damn... you must be desperate, dude."(Not that he'd pass up the chance, but men don't respect sluts)

Human children have a long development period that makes a monogamous, long-term relationship essential. You just can't have it any other way. Human children are meant to be raised by parents.

Imagine a hypothetical(unnatural)promiscuous community: Every year, the women and men just fuck whoever they feel like. Couples don't live in houses together, they just meet every once in a while and fuck. The men don't bother much about the kids, because it's the mother's job to raise him. If you think about it seroiusly, you'd realize that it doesn't work in human society.

Could you try to come up with an argument other than "I like fucking lots of different men often?"
 
Balder:

Women latch onto whichever strong mate they've found and try to use him for their protection. The sluts are disdained and ridiculed even by the men.

There are few more piquant pleasures than the disdain of a lover and the ridicule of a fool.

The former raises our desire to fever pitch and the latter provides us with the most incredible feeling of transgression, superiourity and unquestionable power.

(Not that he'd pass up the chance, but men don't respect sluts)

Men do not respect women at all. What's your point?


(That is, the vast majority of men.)

Human children have a long development period that makes a monogamous, long-term relationship essential. You just can't have it any other way. Human children are meant to be raised by parents.

This pertains to engendering and not to fucking. There is a difference.

Could you try to come up with an argument other than "I like fucking lots of different men often?"

A: I don't. I've met one or two members of your gender who didn't evoke in me the desire to bludgeon them with a bottle of Jack Daniels. Of those few, the one I have is perfectly enough.

B: I never made such an argument. Try to read my posts before replying to them.

Actually, try to read.
 
Remember your history ...

A powerful man is just a man in nature's eyes. When he is old and/or used up he seeks the same thing any other man he ever crossed seeks - comfort in another human (or humans).
 
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