FBI Director Comey Divulged Classified Information to the General Public

[iceaura]

The thing is that your clueless caricature of liberalism is pretty much unacceptable.

It's your posting I'm describing and quoting. If that's your idea of cluelessness and caricature I won't argue otherwise.

The simple fact is that even in the days of NAFTA there wasn't going to be any liberal revolution because we didn't have the numbers

So? "We" didn't have the numbers in part because neither Clinton was part of the "we". Hence my observation that Clinton was not part of the "we", and was instead an obstacle in league with the other obstacles. I provided several specific examples. You ignore them, except the one you deny (the Iraq War powers vote).

It's why you're left with examples like authorization approved as evidence that it would not have ben extraordinary to refuse.

Koolaid amnesia.

No, it would not have been "extraordinary". Not at the time. It was very uncertain, and much discussed at the time, how different people would vote. A majority of Clinton's fellow Democrats did in fact vote against it, and there was for a moment some hope that that would stiffen a few backbones considered vulnerable - considerable debate over whether Clinton would still cave in and collaborate with the obvious logroll. The letdown among her supporters, when she crawled, was palpable. It was so obviously a vote of muddled calculation over clear principle, as well as cowardice over common sense, that a fair number of folks thought it ruined her reputation for competence as well as integrity - not allowing enough for amnesia, apparently. Who knew the whole scene would be forgotten, even by liberals, as it has been? I didn't. I thought this whole selective amnesia thing was kind of a righty specialty.

I don't trust a libertarian who can't make a leftist argument when he tries to describe a "lefty pov".

What are we to make of someone who repeatedly denies the existence of what I know for sure has been right in front of him, including (among much else) three repetitions of a half a dozen leftist critiques of Hillary Clinton's stances and choices? Doesn't know what a leftist argument looks like? In some kind of psychologically messed up state? Or simply lying? I'll take door #2, for the time being.

Because you run around like a petulant puppy begging for attention by piddling on discussions in order to support Donald Trump by making up insupportable bullshit about how strong a campaigner he is and just cross your fingers and oh, poor fucking you.
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The big problem with your argument is that your petulant need to use terms like "koolaid" while refusing to put up any useful argument is that people see through you.
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Yes, you're very anxious to try to do those things.
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you so badly want Trump to win so you can tell people you told them so

Channeling Pee Wee Herman?

Sooner or later you are going to be reading this stuff you've been posting with a clearer head, and it's going to be damn embarrassing for you. Let's hope you can console yourself with a non-Trump President, anyway.

Although considering the fact that this guy is on the horrible verge (close enough in the polling that the electoral fraud already in motion might be able to swing key States) of handing your masterful politician, bigtime corporate backing, and the entire Democratic Party machine, their ass, after starting from nothing except name recognition and some (not much) money, and getting basically nothing in the way of Party or corporate backing - running on his campaigning ability alone, in other words, the classic salesman alone in the room with his mouth - you might want to go easy on disparaging that ability: it's the only excuse you've got left.

It's more annoying than anything else; you so badly want Trump to win so you can tell people you told them so.

Uh, the part about "telling you so" was if Clinton won - remember when you spun that butterfly meadow scenario of President Clinton transformed into a strong and successful advocate for the liberal agenda?

If Trump wins, of course, it isn't going to be just me pointing to the obvious. Although it may be just me going back through your diarrhea directed at me these past few months, and reposting selections - unlikely anyone else would care.

The portion of the left that chose to not participate then doesn't get to hound anyone about saying they weren't warned.

Those of us who did participate get to be pretty blunt about it, considering the treatment received. You guys have burned a few bridges.

 

[iceaura]

In response to this: "Dude, that's what Clinton is: An Eisenhower Republican with a track record of rolling toward the severely "conservative" sector under all circumstances of conflict. That's what you're advocating as "winning slow". " We get this:

Dude, you're sick. Poor you. You don't get anything you want, so she must be just like Republicans.

Yeah. Uh huh. I don't get everything I want from the Democrats, but they make a pretty important difference in my quality of life. When you say there is no difference, you are simply lying in order to keep pitching your slothful tantrum.

I'm going to single that one out, as a teaching moment.

Because what we see here - discarding the language, which has no real excuse from an adult but it's months too late for that poster to go back to reasonableness now - is the apparently sincere contention that I am claiming Clinton is "just like Republicans".

That's nonsense, of course - I pointed out that she is and has always been an Eisenhower Republican.

I am claiming, by using that term, that Clinton ideologically and by nature and over her long career in action resembles or is basically similar in important respects to President Eisenhower, a Republican in the 1950s.

The year is 2016. There haven't been any Eisenhower types in the Republican Party since sometime in the last century.

All such politicians on the national stage are Democrats, nowdays. And that is common knowledge, as well as being commonly posted by me - no one at all familiar with my posting in a political thread can have failed to encounter that observation. No one at all familiar with my posting, or the English language, and in command of their faculties, can have taken my post to be a claim that there is no difference between Clinton and "the Republicans".

So what happened inside that poster's normally perceptive brain, to have produced that stupid slimeball of a post? Seriously: what the fuck is going wrong in the brains of Clinton supporters (and it's not just this one) that they can no longer read with comprehension, or post with reason?

 

[Tiassa]

I'm going to single that one out, as a teaching moment.

Yes, because you're someone like you.

(chortle!)

 

[iceaura]

Yes, because you're someone like you.

(chortle!)

Grow up. The Pee Wee routine has run its course.

Or answer this:

So what happened inside that poster's normally perceptive brain, to have produced that stupid slimeball of a post? Seriously: what the fuck is going wrong in the brains of Clinton supporters (and it's not just this one) that they can no longer read with comprehension, or post with reason?

 

[Tiassa]

Or answer this:

So what happened inside that poster's normally perceptive brain, to have produced that stupid slimeball of a post? Seriously: what the fuck is going wrong in the brains of Clinton supporters (and it's not just this one) that they can no longer read with comprehension, or post with reason?

Iceaura, you're just another arrogant, chest-thumping alpha:

Quit making shit up, you fool - it doesn't help you in dealing with someone like me. I don't despise the professional political class, at all. I welcome the competence, courage, and good judgment they so often display. So what?

You had months to be a reasonable person, but you chose otherwise. Now that I'm done putting up with you, you don't get to be a self-righteous, whining little punk. Seriously, people boasting on the internet about people like themselves is right up there with people declaring themselves the winner of an internet debate.

You're right: There's not much to help anyone in dealing with someone like you. Your posts are more about your own satisfaction than any real political analysis. And you keep running around trying to insert yourself into discussions with other people for the sake of priorities―

Those of us who did participate get to be pretty blunt about it, considering the treatment received. You guys have burned a few bridges.

―that are loathsome. The answer should be that the Left will continue pressing Hillary Clinton. But you show what's important with retorts like that, which simply remind that you're a libertarian.

 

[danshawen]

When we all should be feeling good about the possibility of electing the first woman as POTUS, instead we're having this miserable choice served up in an election where nobody has a prospect of winning anything either side really wants. I have no clue how to fix it, but I do at least know the lesser of two evils when I see it. Corrupt and unrepentant is a better choice than stupid, paranoid and proud of it. This election is like choosing literally between an abortion or the abomination that will result from not having an abortion.

Tough choice, particularly for such miscreants as Trump followers, eh? I guess the point is, these people don't even see it as a tough choice. Neither was choosing their religion, buying (or more to the point selling) another gun, or shooting at neighbors with it because of a disagreement over their choices. You see the problem with one of them running a country, don't you? They don't respect their neighbors, much less women's rights as citizens or even human beings. Screw the unborn, and people who have more regard for the life of the unborn than the living, or the right to own things including rights that they actually believe Trump everyone else's rights. Yeah.

There's a right choice to be made here. They just aren't promoting it like that. How could they, even in the most perfect political year? If you really love your mother, you already know what to do. If you don't, nothing I or anyone else can say will help you. Which do you choose to respect more; a mother's choice, or a government's God or Trump-given right to make such choices for her? Which gun would Jesus sell you next? Idiot abominations and miscreants be praised.

I know which choice I'd make if I were a mother hating resurrected miscreant victim of abortion who wanted everlasting life in the hereafter. Trump should be so unlucky.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Wow, lots of swearing here:

Never really liked this guy but this is expressing anger to a scary degree. Wonder if Trump is going to get shot.

 

[iceaura]

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Never really liked this guy but this is expressing anger to a scary degree. Wonder if Trump is going to get shot.

Oh c'mon. There's less anger there than in any fifteen minutes of a normal Trump campaign speech (never mind his friggin' supporters). There's much less anger there than one sees routinely expressed toward Clinton all over the place (including this forum). And the Trump guys are the shooters, normally, in the US.

It's not Trump who is most likely to get shot here. The crazyhate directed at Clinton has been fermenting for years now.

 

[danshawen]

Leave it to a casino gambling mogul to raise the political stakes in a national election by making it into a referendum on abortion, guns or secession. You'd have to be very gullible to fall for it, and the House always wins.

The U. S. Constitution has only failed us once, resulting in the bloodiest civil war the world has seen before or since. The issue of abortion doesn't rate that level of conflict, and as far as I am concerned, the reason the American civil war was fought was over something more evil than an equivalent number of late term abortions as the war had casualties. The only issue that even rises to the level of such a conflict would be slavery. I thought that issue had been settled, but if someone is stupid enough to teach a different history of hatred and bigotry to their children, that would be evil as well. This election is actually all about stupidity incarnate as a presidential candidate. Not about evil explicitly, but give it a chance to work and we'll all be sorry we did.

So, place your bets. Last call.

 

[danshawen]

Oh c'mon. There's less anger there than in any fifteen minutes of a normal Trump campaign speech (never mind his friggin' supporters). There's much less anger there than one sees routinely expressed toward Clinton all over the place (including this forum). And the Trump guys are the shooters, normally, in the US.

It's not Trump who is most likely to get shot here. The crazyhate directed at Clinton has been fermenting for years now.

The United States has four or five times as many gun shops as Starbucks. It isn't because people have to hunt for breakfast before getting a cup of coffee, so what's the reason? In a McDonalds yesterday morning over breakfast, I was overhearing a conversation about a new gun someone bought.

No ads on Fox News for guns, or gun show in the area, so where is this hard selling of guns taking place, and do they have free coffee?

 

[iceaura]

The United States has four or five times as many gun shops as Starbucks.

Ah, no: it has more people licensed to sell firearms than there are Starbucks. That's not at all the same as the number of actual gun shops.

It's a side effect of the laws regulating gun sales, and the price of a gun compared with the price of a license. Lots of people get licenses.

 

[Quantum Quack]

The United States has four or five times as many gun shops as Starbucks. It isn't because people have to hunt for breakfast before getting a cup of coffee, so what's the reason? In a McDonalds yesterday morning over breakfast, I was overhearing a conversation about a new gun someone bought.

It must be terrible living in a nation that is so fearful that gun ownership and the constitutional rights to bear arms are such a hot potato.
The only reason for guns, tanks, nukes is fear. That said, the USA could be considered as one hell of a scared nation. Why, is the big question.

 

[danshawen]

It must be terrible living in a nation that is so fearful that gun ownership and the constitutional rights to bear arms are such a hot potato.
The only reason for guns, tanks, nukes is fear. That said, the USA could be considered as one hell of a scared nation. Why, is the big question.

It's complicated. I've never owned or wanted to own a gun myself, and if I lived somewhere it was necessary to do that, I'd rather move somewhere it wasn't, but it's a big country with a lot of diversity, and I can well understand there are wild places people live where owning a gun for protection from local wildlife (rattlesnakes, mountain lions) is pretty much a necessity. Taking away gun ownership from such people really wouldn't make very much sense, so it is likely that the 2nd amendment is not going to go away anytime soon, nor would I wish it to.

Taking up arms against a government you personally don't trust is treason, and we have to stop making excuses for pardoning people who stockpile weapons for reasons other than personal security. The second amendment, like freedom to practice your own religion, has limits that must be balanced against the rights of other citizens to expect a reasonable measure of safety and security and to practice a religion that may be very different from those of your neighbors.

I'm not scared, really. If Trump wants to make this election a referendum on Roe v. Wade to run up the political stakes, our political system can reasonably accommodate that, and I will accept the result of that referendum, whichever way it falls. If Trump's supporters can't bring themselves to do that also, then obviously that's going to be a problem.

 

[paddoboy]

It's complicated. I've never owned or wanted to own a gun myself, and if I lived somewhere it was necessary to do that, I'd rather move somewhere it wasn't, but it's a big country with a lot of diversity, and I can well understand there are wild places people live where owning a gun for protection from local wildlife (rattlesnakes, mountain lions) is pretty much a necessity. Taking away gun ownership from such people really wouldn't make very much sense, so it is likely that the 2nd amendment is not going to go away anytime soon, nor would I wish it to.

Same here...Only ever fired an Enfield 303 Rifle in the cadets at school.
We have rather stringent gun laws in Australia, where people that live outside the cities and towns are allowed ownership, but always under strict laws....We lack mountain lions though, and other than wild Dingoes and a few deadly species of snakes,

 

[iceaura]

That said, the USA could be considered as one hell of a scared nation. Why, is the big question.

The faction dominated by such fear, for more than a century now, first caught the bug in 1800s with the approach of the end of slavery - the emancipation of the black slaves terrified them. That's my nomination for where and when the obvious political link between racism and this psychological panic among "conservatives" was forged. (These "conservatives" were largely Democrats at the time, because Lincoln was a Republican. The co-option of this fear by the Republican Party, joining it to the centers of power and money that the Republican Party had long represented, was yet to happen).

Then, in the aftermath of WWII survived by Stalin - the only murderous and crazy totalitarian emperor left standing (1947) - came this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_Doctrine

To pass any legislation Truman needed the support of the Republicans, who controlled both houses of Congress. The chief Republican spokesman Senator Arthur H. Vandenberg strongly supported Truman and overcame the doubts of isolationists such as Senator Robert A. Taft.[14]:127 Truman laid the groundwork for his request by having key congressional leaders meet with himself, Secretary of State George Marshall, and Undersecretary of State Dean Acheson. Acheson laid out the "domino theory" in the starkest terms, comparing a communist state to a rotten apple that could spread its infection to an entire barrel. Vandenberg was impressed, and advised Truman to appear before Congress and "scare the hell out of the American people." - -
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When a draft for Truman's address was circulated to policymakers, Marshall, Kennan, and others criticized it for containing excess "rhetoric." Truman responded that, as Vandenberg had suggested, his request would only be approved if he played up the threat

which will do as well as any to mark the rise of inculcated paranoia as a mass marketing tool in modern American politics.

Then came Nixon's 1968 campaign.

 

[birch]

Dude, that's what Clinton is: An Eisenhower Republican with a track record of rolling toward the severely "conservative" sector under all circumstances of conflict. That's what you're advocating as "winning slow".

That is exactly what her husband bill was and how he ran the country. Liberal front, conservative back.

 

[danshawen]

That is exactly what her husband bill was and how he ran the country. Liberal front, conservative back.

I never voted even once for that guy, and I am a lifetime liberal. This election makes it feel as though I was raped into voting for his spouse.

I'd have willingly voted for Michelle Obama in a heartbeat, but Obamacare's many problems probably would have beaten her in a national election on that issue.

 

[Tiassa]

This election makes it feel as though I was raped into voting for his spouse.

Isn't that unfortunate?

Oh, no, wait: Isn't that just sickening?

Yeah. Disgusting. Fucking full of shit disgusting.

Your opinion is disqualified.

 

[PhysBang]

Same here...Only ever fired an Enfield 303 Rifle in the cadets at school.
We have rather stringent gun laws in Australia, where people that live outside the cities and towns are allowed ownership, but always under strict laws....We lack mountain lions though, and other than wild Dingoes and a few deadly species of snakes,

You have some spiders that I might want to shoot at

 

[danshawen]

Isn't that unfortunate?

Oh, no, wait: Isn't that just sickening?

Yeah. Disgusting. Fucking full of shit disgusting.

Your opinion is disqualified.

I don't blame Hillary for this feeling (or the rape). I already voted for her. I only hope she won't let us all down like her spouse did.

That is one well thought out response you just did there. If this election gave Trump supporters even half that pause of ambivalence or confusion, that would be great.