Faith-based initiatives (America)

Z

Zero Mass

Registered Senior Member
Ok, maybe it isn't the best topic for this forum, in fact it might be more appropriate in world events&politics, but I would like to hear the opinions of people in relation to thier relative religions/morals.

Also, I don't know how many people are not American on this board, but I think it is an interesting topic nevertheless.

Bush's faith-based initiatives...are they constitutional? Do they break the Article VI of the constitution (separation of church and state, i think, more or less)

Um, what do you think? Does religion have any place in America's secular republic? I personally do not think it does, Thomas Jefferson didn't think it did at least, and, you know, he was a pretty smart guy and all, so he can't be totally wrong.

Anyway, let me know what you think

ZERO MASS
 
Thomas Jefferson was a pretty smart guy so he cant be all wrong? c'mon kid. In this forum from hell, you need better solid statements than that.

anyways. here is how the ball bounces. we elected him. He is who he is. We knew who he was when we elected him. and what is wrong with him involving his religious dealings in his presidency. correct me if im wrong but nobody would complain if he was an open atheist, and decided to evangelize america through anti-theism.

furthermore, the president has oh so little power before the mighty prowess of congress, so what are you worried about?
 
Originally posted by KenshiSoro
Thomas Jefferson was a pretty smart guy so he cant be all wrong? c'mon kid. In this forum from hell, you need better solid statements than that.
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You have hardly demonstrated the prowess to even begin to warrant such condescension.
 
Originally posted by Zero Mass
Anyway, let me know what you think

ZERO MASS
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You might be interested in PRESIDENT BUSH AND 'FAITH-BASED' INITIATIVES: AU Report And Answers To Frequently Asked Questions.

By the way, there is a difference between
  • Bush's faith-based initiatives...are they constitutional? - and
  • Does religion have any place in America's secular republic?
Separation of Church and State is not a mandate for the elimination of religious expression in a secular, democratic society.
 
KenshiSoro
correct me if im wrong but nobody would complain if he was an open atheist, and decided to evangelize america through anti-theism.

I would god damn it, the Presidents personal life and beliefs should not have that large of an affect on the government, especially on something like tampering with the constitution.

Consequent Atheist
By the way, there is a difference between

Bush's faith-based initiatives...are they constitutional? - and
Does religion have any place in America's secular republic?

Separation of Church and State is not a mandate for the elimination of religious expression in a secular, democratic society.

Thank you for pointing that out. I am sort of asking multiple questions. But you cannot disagree with the fact that the two questions are very intimately related.
President Bush can express his religion all he want in private, but when he brings his religious fanaticism into the oval office he is in breach of an oath he took to gain said office.

"I, name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."

HE is not upholding Article VI of the constitution when he displays his religious views in public. There are a plethora of reasons why this is not allowed. But Thomas Jefferson (Hey KenshiSoro, listen kid, its called sarcasm, and while it is difficult to receive through this medium, only total crapheads couldn't understand my above statement about Jefferson) said it best when he said:

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites." -Thomas Jefferson

Anyway, T.J. was the one of the greatest political thinkers of all time, and in my opinion, Bush is working to undue his work with his faith-based initiatives.

It is unconstitutional for the Government to give tax dollars to Churches

ZERO MASS
 
Originally posted by Zero Mass
I am sort of asking multiple questions. But you cannot disagree with the fact that the two questions are very intimately related.
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It very much depends upon what you mean by (a) America's secular republic, and (b) intimately related. Specifically, if by the republic you mean solely its govenmental institutions, the the republic should be considered a religion-free zone. If, however, the republic is generalized to refer to American society as a whole, then the critical issue becomes one of preserving religious freedom.

While I presume that you and I pretty much agree with one another, I would encourage you to avoid "multiple questions" except where they reinforce, rather than confuse, the key point. Theists are not the enemy, and, as a member myself, I value their support of AU.
 
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