Extant Neanderthals?

Walter L. Wagner

Cosmic Truth Seeker
Valued Senior Member
Here is an intriguing report that suggests that other species of Homo arrived in the americas long before Homo sapiens. Just how wide-spread was Homo neanderthalensis, and could it have made it to the americas? How reliable are anecdotal reports from European explorers in the amercias?

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/biology/chapters.htm

Check out the detailed description beginning on paragraph 8.
 
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Thanks,

I liked the article and found a nice bit that really interests me about two finds that the Smithsonian and/or Military have covered up, that I did not even know about until I just read this.

I'm not all that interested in "Bigfoot" (though these articles have certainly peaked my interest), I found this section to be par for the course in my own personal interest, concerning covered up evidence regarding very large human remains:

This from Ivan T. Sanderson, earned a B.A. in zoology, with honors, from Cambridge University, where he later earned M.A. degrees in botany and geology. I guess people didn't worry about their careers so much in the 60s. I'm sure some revisionist has thoroughly debunked every single word by now...

Ivan Sanderson, More "Things," 1969, Pyramid Books
Chapter 6 (pp. 79-88), "Giant Skulls"....

*snip*
The facts came from one of her sons (she was a great-grandmother) who had been an engineer in the U.S. Army during World War II. This man relates the following:

Having volunteered in 1940 for active duty, he was sent to join an engineering unit that built the Alcan Highway to Alaska. When this was completed, he was sent, with this unit, the 1081st Company, Maintenance Engineers, to the island of Kodiak for a rest period, and was then shipped with his unit to a tiny island named Shemya that lies half a mile east of Atu (and which is separated from it only by a half-mile shallow channel) that is the last of the Aleutians going towards Asia. The Japanese were still on Atu and the purpose of landing on Shemya was to turn the island into an airstrip, it being flat and low, except for a small rise at the eastern end. Enemy resistance had been expected here but, on landing, only one dead Japanese soldier was found. However, there were neat signs all around the island stating that it, and anything found on it, was the property of (of all things) the Smithsonian Institution! When these signs were erected was not known to this engineering outfit--whether they were pre-war and left by the Japanese, erected by the enemy, or by some military unit that had got there before them. This business is odd to say the least; but wait.

According to my correspondent, her son stated that when the bulldozers arrived, they started leveling the whole island of small bumps and finally tackled the slight elevation at the east end. Curiously, this was said to have been composed of many layers of "muck", silt, and soil, with underlying sedimentary rock, while the lower land and the beaches were composed of a mixture of sedimentary and non-sedimentary rocks and boulders. As this eastern bump was scooped off, bones of all kinds began to come to light, first, those of whales, seals, walrus and such, but later and lower, those of extinct animals like mammoths. Finally, at a depth of about six feet, what appeared to be a graveyard of human remains was uncovered. These were wholly of crania (not whole skulls) and the long bones of the legs. Associated with them were numerous doll-like artifacts carved out of mammoth and walrus ivory, but "fossilized"--after they had been carved. There were also chipped flint instruments (no flint on the island) and other bone and stone implements of both very small and a rather large size.

The crania of the human skulls, which are categorically stated to be of modem human conformation with full foreheads (not sloping, ape-like ones with big brow-ridges) measured from 22" to 24" from base to crown. What is more, every one of them is said to have been neatly trepanned!
*Snip*

To go back, though, I find that I should report some much less pleasant implications. First, there is this curious business of the island being clearly marked "off-limits" as being the perquisite of the Smithsonian. I do not quite understand this. But then comes a much less pleasant conundrum. it is alleged by my primary informants that the men aboard the island made a sort of hobby of collecting the artifacts found with the bones, but that they were told to turn them all in, under penalty. However, one man who had been a museum preparator, knowing something of their value and possible significance, made a small collection that he hoped to take back to the mainland. This was discovered, and the man was immediately arrested and held incommunicado. Later, when a civilian crew of engineers came to relieve the enlisted outfit, this man was allegedly shipped back to the States "in irons", as the saying goes, and was dispatched to (the military) Leavenworth.

Then come a number of flat statements from various sources; to wit, that a number of these skulls, or bits of them, plus other bones, some of the "dolls", and other artifacts, were collected, crated, and dispatched to the Smithsonian. I have no evidence that this was (or is) so, apart from these written statements. However, now thoroughly irked by all this, I made formal application to the Smithsonian for some clarification of all this--either a written denial of it, or some information as to just what happened to any material of this nature that was shipped to them from the Island of Shemya, circa 1945-46. I have never received a reply.

Either this whole story (and I would emphasize that it is just that, rather than a "report!", as of now) is pure hog-wash, or it is true. If the former, how come such very sensible-sounding persons have written as they have; and how is it that there is confirmation, up to a point, from ex-military personnel who were at the spot when this happened? If it is true, then where the hell are the finds? Why have they not been examined, published upon, and otherwise made public? As my original informant said in one of her letters: "Perhaps you are right in saying that these people just cannot face rewriting all their textbooks."

Very typical. If you investigate other finds (like other mound-gravesites with mass graves of several large skeletons together), you will only find the original local paper, (if it was transferred to microfiche, as most of these finds are in the 1800s) news on it and absolutely no historical record. Typically again, the article reads "Shipped to the Smithsonian...", "Remains transported to the Smithsonian".

Finds in South America or in some countries in Asia, such as this, are typically centerpieces in Carnival Museums, right next to some other stuff that is absolute crap(indeed it all could be crap), dismissed without any investigation, usually.

I am very thankful developing countries are now able to handle their own "digging for the truth". I am confident either the perpetrators of a centuries long, hand-me-down hoax will be undone and release people like myself, fascinated and enslaved in it's incredible and vast-earth spanning almost operating on a sub-conscious level - Lie. Or older institutions, for one reason or another, willing to try to hide a few telling finds, while revealing others, to tell a truly tall tale of our past - Will be absolutely unveilled like the Wizard of Oz. Rewrite the textbooks and then some.
 
"The Visitor" has also posted at Sciforums regarding giant humans, though he's taken a 'religious' view. Anecdotal evidence exists even from the Bible/Torah, in the story of Goliath, who was reportedly of a race of giant humans.

Certainly the idea of giant humans is not inconsistent with what be know about gigantism, particularly during the ice ages when environmental pressures drove fauna towards giant size. It would be quite possible that various races of hominid, even races of Homo sapiens, would have developed that were exceptionally large in stature, co-existent with other races. Didn't Homo-neanderthalensis co-exist with Homo-sapiens for 50,000+ years in Europe? And, why would Neanderthal man stop spreading his existence at western Asia, and not move to Eastern asia and the Americas? Just because we haven't yet found the fossils doesn't mean it didn't happen. That evidence might well be concentrated on the old coastlines, now deeply submerged, which is why we haven't found it.

It would be a shame indeed if such little evidence that was found was systematically hidden because it did not jive with pre-conceived notions of human history and evolution.
 
"The Visitor" has also posted at Sciforums regarding giant humans, though he's taken a 'religious' view. Anecdotal evidence exists even from the Bible/Torah, in the story of Goliath, who was reportedly of a race of giant humans.

Certainly the idea of giant humans is not inconsistent with what be know about gigantism, particularly during the ice ages when environmental pressures drove fauna towards giant size. It would be quite possible that various races of hominid, even races of Homo sapiens, would have developed that were exceptionally large in stature, co-existent with other races. Didn't Homo-neanderthalensis co-exist with Homo-sapiens for 50,000+ years in Europe? And, why would Neanderthal man stop spreading his existence at western Asia, and not move to Eastern asia and the Americas? Just because we haven't yet found the fossils doesn't mean it didn't happen. That evidence might well be concentrated on the old coastlines, now deeply submerged, which is why we haven't found it.

It would be a shame indeed if such little evidence that was found was systematically hidden because it did not jive with pre-conceived notions of human history and evolution.

Neanderthals also had a larger brain size, though it was mostly occipital lobe. They probably would be absolutely physically superior to us. Some think "Cro-Magnons", charged with the extinction of Neanderthals were "Us", but Cro-Magnons were superior to both. They were homo-sapien, sure, but they averaged at least 6'6" and a brain case averaging 1600+ cc.

I liked how the article suggested Neanderthals simply avoided contact and were picked off family by family and were out competed, probably due to our invention of warfare.

Of course Neanderthals lasted far longer than they are guessing they lasted. Science always takes the pessimist view. They seem to just take whatever was the last find add a couple thousand years and call it a "projection".

If we are going with a theory that decedents of Neanderthals could exist, via an absolute aversion to humans (by learned behavior and like Sapiens, indeed by innovation), I would say that the population would be so extremely small for so long a period of time that they would not have been able to continue to reproduce like that without dying out of genetic defects. That it unless they could create some way of fielding significant numbers in hiding, probably over a large area. It's pretty doubtful.
 
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