Exploring author-ity
- Thread starter duendy
- Start date
duendy: Say yo were sat on a train, or bus, and a uniformed guard asked you to change your seat. Even though there were empty seats near you. would you? yes? no? (i shoulda done a poll maybe. but be honest)
*************
M*W: That depends. If the uniformed guard was employed by some agency other than the transportation service, knowing me, I would probably pretend I was deaf and ignore him (I've actually done this!), or I would politely ask him why, just in case there was a bug or a snake or something else crawling on me. If the uniformed guard was an employee of the transportation service, I would politely get up and twist my fat ass into another seat.
*************
M*W: That depends. If the uniformed guard was employed by some agency other than the transportation service, knowing me, I would probably pretend I was deaf and ignore him (I've actually done this!), or I would politely ask him why, just in case there was a bug or a snake or something else crawling on me. If the uniformed guard was an employee of the transportation service, I would politely get up and twist my fat ass into another seat.
I would always ask why no matter who the person would be...
Depends if I lived in a country where individual freedom was supported as part of its constitution, otherwise my survival might well be at risk. But in a free regime I would always question a request if the reason was not apparent.
But what has this to do with religion?
But what has this to do with religion?
I'd just start shouting out loud the national anthem.
Cris said:
hehe...EVERYthing.
Actually, maybe this is no good as an intllectual excercise cause one has time to think and rationalize what might do rather than it spring on you out of the blue
therer was a secret filmed experiment designed by psychologists, which i saw on this documentary. exactly people being asked to move by a uniformed man on a train, efven though there were empty seats. all of the people asked never asked 'why' they moved. and what was being shown was how peplke unquestioningly obey authority--ie the UNIFORM.
when they tried it with a dude just dressed in normal clothes the results were not as good. some people were reluctant to move. so it was the uniform--the sign of authority that made the poeple NOt ask questions and just do what was being asked, even though it made no sense
Obviusly i am seeing the obeyance going on with religious authority/'God's authro-ity, which is why i felt it a good example of how it relates with secular life. And how many people conform to authority rather than question it
Religion has uniforms. priests wear them, Bishops, vicars, And there is also the authority of the Book, set down in words. and many peopole just follow and dont ask no questions. Not even about the traditions they do
i worked with the Jewish guy a few years back, and he told me some of the customs he did, like lighting candles and certain rituals around special dinners etc, i asked what they meant, and he said he didn't know and laughed. so basically he was just doing all this stuff not knowing why.
We know the cliche nazi excuse don't we , ie., "I was just following orders"...? so it can be extremely dangerous to just follow orders, no?
If there are plenty of free seats, then I would move. The person may have a good reason, and if not, you haven't lost anything. Usually, it's authoritarian people that like to wear uniforms, and it's better to avoid trouble. I would ask why I needed to move, but after I did it.
spidergoat said:
i am not saying you wouldn't. but....i am also sure that if the people it had ahppened to and DId move, had been rather ASKEd before they too would have denied they would have behaved so sheepishly
but i dont want the whole thread to be about that. it's really a starter trying to reveal how gullible many are to authority. being told what to do
obviously THE big daddy of em all is mr 'God'. The Garden.....the curse....the guilt, the laws, the not letting us near A Tree...telling women they will suffer in chidbirth....all the rules to follow . whyYYYYY?
i have felt this indoctrination in myself and i wasn't even brought UP religious!
What happens is that the outer authority of the indoctrination can become the inner authority, can't it?...till the religious person can become utterly rigid and frightful odf doing anything 'wrong' as said so in their belief
so there has to be a way outta that. And it is asking questions. authority doesn't like you asking too many questions
I would have been more skeptical of a real cop. As a real authority figure, they need to show more restraint, and answer questions. Fake authority figures are more dangerous. If I saw a guy come onto the bus with a pseudo-police outfit or something, I might get off the bus right away. Same with religious authorities, I would trust a plain looking person too tell some truth about life, but towards a person in a priest outfit, or buddhist robes, I'd be very challenging to them until they proved themselves.
well a real cop or phony one would both put me off. and also over-smiling born again ordinary dressed christian too. but i know what you mean about uni-forms.
Uniforms seem to equal authority. THe main unifom of our time is the jacket, pants, shirt and tie and shiny shoes--the SUIT..isn't it? we are expected to believe these suits. EVEN when everyone knows they've told SERIOUS SHIT LIEs that have cost the lives of thousands of people, caused limbs to be blown off children and ******** environments. THQAt is forgiven...yet some reported drug dealer is evil personified according to the media and then reflected in the attitude of the community--as are prostitutes, Queers--especially if wanting positions in their church--refugees, homless, those needing welfare etc. so instead of the pople seeing the evil of the system pushers, the ordinary people suffering from it and needing to make a living however they can are scapegoated
At the moment our government has started targetting problem kids and families......later gotago
Uniforms seem to equal authority. THe main unifom of our time is the jacket, pants, shirt and tie and shiny shoes--the SUIT..isn't it? we are expected to believe these suits. EVEN when everyone knows they've told SERIOUS SHIT LIEs that have cost the lives of thousands of people, caused limbs to be blown off children and ******** environments. THQAt is forgiven...yet some reported drug dealer is evil personified according to the media and then reflected in the attitude of the community--as are prostitutes, Queers--especially if wanting positions in their church--refugees, homless, those needing welfare etc. so instead of the pople seeing the evil of the system pushers, the ordinary people suffering from it and needing to make a living however they can are scapegoated
At the moment our government has started targetting problem kids and families......later gotago
continued))strage how 'pioson-ing' gets censored here...???
'HSOBs' is the term used to target people and kids who cause others problems. and i am all for it...BUT, yet again they very authority that is THe main cause of the inequality, polllution, shit 'education' etc gets off the hook. they create the problems, and then aim to get votes to 'cure' it
this reminds me of the church and THEIr main enemy the 'Devil'...their dogma makes all social problems 'HIS' business, and when the inevitable happens, tells the victims thaT THEY HAVE THE CURE...'jESUS cHRIST' ETC....so it's the same process with different lingo and symbols isn't it?
it's the authoritarian strategy of divide and rule. divide the people from themselves and each other, and then the very dogmatists that PUSH this shit offer the phony CURe for it, which doesn't REALLY do ANYthing radical to change things. why? cause it itsELF is THe causer
do you agree, not agree, what?
'HSOBs' is the term used to target people and kids who cause others problems. and i am all for it...BUT, yet again they very authority that is THe main cause of the inequality, polllution, shit 'education' etc gets off the hook. they create the problems, and then aim to get votes to 'cure' it
this reminds me of the church and THEIr main enemy the 'Devil'...their dogma makes all social problems 'HIS' business, and when the inevitable happens, tells the victims thaT THEY HAVE THE CURE...'jESUS cHRIST' ETC....so it's the same process with different lingo and symbols isn't it?
it's the authoritarian strategy of divide and rule. divide the people from themselves and each other, and then the very dogmatists that PUSH this shit offer the phony CURe for it, which doesn't REALLY do ANYthing radical to change things. why? cause it itsELF is THe causer
do you agree, not agree, what?
Ahhh... duendy.... just out of curiosity.... what is your guideline for using capital letters....??? 
TruthSeeker said:Ahhh... duendy.... just out of curiosity.... what is your guideline for using capital letters....???
OK Truthseeker, we are discussin this serious shit, and you want to know whay i am using capital letters...ok, i'll tell ya
i LOVE italic. LOVE it. because using it is a means of conveying feeling. wish there was other types of keys that could do this, but the makers of thiese keyboards are boring
so have you guessed? yip. i dont have access to italic mode, and cant access the one at these boards, cause my system is limted and a lot of the functions you can use quite nonchalantly, i cant. SOOOO, i use caps inSTEAd of italic. i am not SHOUTING, i am subtly emphasizing. please adjust your perspective like i knows you can
now. what do you think of what is being said here? any comments?
Ohhhh..... NOW i undersTAND....
Anyways.... Sorry, I haven't had time to read it....
I will get back to you later....
Anyways.... Sorry, I haven't had time to read it....
I will get back to you later....
This is sooooooo true...duendy said:
I will simply redirect you to my own thread....
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=769092#post769092
Wow, sooo true. Ever read Utopia?
In a way, yes. I would certainly like to see a church that is less dependent on God and Jesus, and more active and powerful in society.... I have tried to inspire them, but it is really hard to conquer apathy nowadays.... People LIKE having Everything being GIven to them, on their LAPs, without ANY effort.
Yep. But my question is, do people CAre? Do they WANT to have power over their lives or just go along and let others decide for them?
last questions good to explore (btw ..are you takin the piss outta me?..heh)....
Do the people care, and do they want power over them?......Yes and no. Yes many DO feel that they are on to a good thing. many people in ghettos WANT what is pushed on the TV. the cars, lifestyles, ...out of the fukin ghetto. what? are you gonna say its cool to live in the ghetto?...so what then?
the way i am exploring this is--i found out about this dude called Edward Bernays about over a year back. i'd thought i was fairly hip, but this duc from the BBC blew me away. he was Sigmund Freuds nephew and used his ucles techniqes to help corps and the ad world and government etc to manipulate people WITHOUT them knowing it! he's called the father of spin--check him out
so do you see what i mean ?
(btw. my system is limited. when threads got posts to word-hevey i cant access them. drag. way out maybe is. if you qguote from pre=post. try and zen it a bit....a bit
Do the people care, and do they want power over them?......Yes and no. Yes many DO feel that they are on to a good thing. many people in ghettos WANT what is pushed on the TV. the cars, lifestyles, ...out of the fukin ghetto. what? are you gonna say its cool to live in the ghetto?...so what then?
the way i am exploring this is--i found out about this dude called Edward Bernays about over a year back. i'd thought i was fairly hip, but this duc from the BBC blew me away. he was Sigmund Freuds nephew and used his ucles techniqes to help corps and the ad world and government etc to manipulate people WITHOUT them knowing it! he's called the father of spin--check him out
so do you see what i mean ?
(btw. my system is limited. when threads got posts to word-hevey i cant access them. drag. way out maybe is. if you qguote from pre=post. try and zen it a bit....a bit
eeeeehhhh....?duendy said:
Yes, I do know what you mean. It is calledn "brainwashing". I bet many here have gone through that.....
Democracy is an illusion. We just have a big oligarchy of corporations who are constantly influencing the government through money, and people through ads. Oh! Look at this car! Isn't it cool!? The girls will be all over you just if you buy this car! This car is going to change your life forever! It is the secret of hapiness! HA! Yeah, right..... The worse is that it oftens become true because the girls are also influenced by the same stupid culture.
Hurray!! The zombie culture!!
I wanna be like NSYNC!!
Yuck! It's disgusting how our culture of being-like-everyone-else-not-having-a-distinct-identity controls people. Like... it isw cool to be dumb. It is cool to smoke, to get constantly drunk, to eventually kill yourself. It is just disgusting....
Ok. I will try to see if I understood ya...
YES...tey--the spin matrix spinners manipulate our desires in order to get us to buy products w dont even NEED. this is how the show is run. and people are doing it. the mall is the cathedral. where people go for big HIT. so we buy and we get a rush and rush soon goes so we need to buy more. THAt is the game manipulated on us.....as i say to everyone who imagines i am conspiracy theorizing or whatnot..listen again go read about EDWARD BERNAYS....!!!!! it is all there, and from therer dig how much more spohisticated his shit has beocome. look at MTV for instance the yuuuuf market etc. how rebellious huh?
so what are we gonna do?
like you said, people DO believe that being part of this system is where its at. but we know --or i do, that it is spiritually bankrupt. there is much violence, and the circus of the political game where it dont matter who the $£ck you choose it is all the same old same old mindset
it is a HUUUUGE machine that has been gathered round us like a straightjacket for generations and generations, so the exploration of it can seem daunting. you feel eg., 'but everyone ELSEEe is doin it' kind of ting, and so many of us might start out angry, but then we conform and push our kids into the same old crap. and this is how it feeds itself
so it needs guts to stand up to it
where do you get the guts from? from exploring the roots of it, which en-courages you,......
you seem passionate about this too Truthseeker. what are your ideas about this?
so what are we gonna do?
like you said, people DO believe that being part of this system is where its at. but we know --or i do, that it is spiritually bankrupt. there is much violence, and the circus of the political game where it dont matter who the $£ck you choose it is all the same old same old mindset
it is a HUUUUGE machine that has been gathered round us like a straightjacket for generations and generations, so the exploration of it can seem daunting. you feel eg., 'but everyone ELSEEe is doin it' kind of ting, and so many of us might start out angry, but then we conform and push our kids into the same old crap. and this is how it feeds itself
so it needs guts to stand up to it
where do you get the guts from? from exploring the roots of it, which en-courages you,......
you seem passionate about this too Truthseeker. what are your ideas about this?
Exactly.duendy said:
That's the question that goes on and on in my mind as I race for my position in the UVIC senate. What can I really do? I think the only way we can change the world is by making people aware of what is going on and inspiring them to make the change together. Because after all, the power is ours. If we don't like a corporation, we can always kill it by not buying their products anymore. But with multinational corporations, we would need to do it globally, which is quite a feat.
Ever read More's Utopia? Not much different than today.....
Yes. It seems it has become a part of our nature. And we were raised in that environment and educated accordingly, which makes the awakening process quite painful.
I don't know.... it is such a huge work....
And in the end, I will get nothing for it. I will give my life and my blood for it and it won't make my life any better. But it is ok. If we succeed, my children will have a much better life....
Maaaaany. I'm studying the whole system like mad. Ultimately, I would like power to be equally spread to all people. First of all, we would need better income distribution. Second, we would need a much better and useful educational system. Those two things can give power to people. If everyone has the same amount of power, corruption becomes inneficient. People could still get together to gain power, but if everyone is satisfied with what they have, there's no problem. So we have to eliminate the scarcity of resources and reduce the level of desire of consumption of everyone. It is quite a feat, my friend. And you might even lose your life fighting for it. But it is a great experience. Better than waste your life away being a zombie...
Not sure if you are an American. But here it has become more and more Americanized. Commercials--or ads as we also call them proliferate EVERYwhere. TV progs no sooner end on a very sensitive end to a drams than up flashes an ad for the next programme. which mashes up the auesthetic sensitivities of the mond
people cars ...ever-ukin-thing frantically moving about
read to day that people hardly have deep converstion no more. its all rushed chit chat in between rushin about
I have noted somewhere a quote by a Native American Elder who prohesized this will happen. and he tells his listeners that when it does, they must go slower and slower...heh
the daunting spectacle is daunting cause it is the individual who wakes up to it. and then it is 'how can i cahnge the world',,,,and some go under with the thought of such a seemingly impossible task.
i feel though that as long as you are exploring it, and speaking out about it, that it is at least not being ignored about. no matter how uncomfortable it can be
its like sussing a game being played and then ther is no going back
i dont believe in bloodshed though. it has to be a seeing the emperor's saggy arse. and now he dnt even CARE! and seeing through the cage
people cars ...ever-ukin-thing frantically moving about
read to day that people hardly have deep converstion no more. its all rushed chit chat in between rushin about
I have noted somewhere a quote by a Native American Elder who prohesized this will happen. and he tells his listeners that when it does, they must go slower and slower...heh
the daunting spectacle is daunting cause it is the individual who wakes up to it. and then it is 'how can i cahnge the world',,,,and some go under with the thought of such a seemingly impossible task.
i feel though that as long as you are exploring it, and speaking out about it, that it is at least not being ignored about. no matter how uncomfortable it can be
its like sussing a game being played and then ther is no going back
i dont believe in bloodshed though. it has to be a seeing the emperor's saggy arse. and now he dnt even CARE! and seeing through the cage