explaining the universe

Lovellectual

Registered Member
There is a logical explanation as to who we are,how it is we even exist,why we exist,and our relationship to the cosmos.It is so logical,it's on the level of Einstein as compared with someone intellectually challenged.
 
L,

Welcome to sciforums.

Unfortunately most of us here are not on the same level as Einstein, so I am afraid that you will have to explain a little bit more.

And of course compared to Einstein we are all indeed intellectually challenged.

But if it is so profound as to be of the Einstein quality and since Einstein stated that he was an atheist then I strongly suspect that your observation has nothing to do with the supernatural.

I eagerly await your revelation.
 
I agree that there is a logical explanation as to who we are, how it is we even exist, why we exist, and our relationship to the cosmos.

But, for mankind to understand these logical explanations would be like explaining Einsteins theories to goldfish, and for the goldfish to actually understand the theories.
 
seriosly explaining the universe

let's start with this:it's easy to imagine the possibility of an eternal future,but have you ever reasoned through the notion of an eternal past?What were you doing before you replied to my post?Whatever it was,let's label it an "event".You can define whatever the beginning and end was,of this event.Before that,you were engaged in another "event",and so on.
Obviously,the same reasoning can be applied to your parents' lives before you were born,to their parents',and so on,as far back as human history goes.
Now,when we get back to the beginning of human history,if there was in fact a precise beginning---or,if you like,whatever we were before we were human---still,ostensibly,there were "intelligent beings" of some ilk experiencing events,and that notion can be regressed infinitely.
If you want to bring in the generally accepted scientific notion that intelligent life on Earth began by way of electrical and chemical interactions involving amino acids,etc.(I know I'm not describing the notion with precision),then even though there wasn't "intelligence" to apprehend it,still,"events" were going on---something was going on,along a linear timeline,as best as we can understand it.
Let's go back to the Big Bang.The argument is that some kind of a "point-event" existed---I can't think of the term that is used---which exploded and expanded out an enormous distance in unimaginable heat;then things started to cool and contract,the elements were formed,and so forth(I know I'm leaving out steps).But where did this original "unit" that "banged" come from?Was it sitting there forever?Still,where did it come from?
The best our logic can give us is that wherever there has been an "event",an event just preceded it---otherwise,what was in between the two events?
Going back to the "point-event" that made the Big Bang,if it had been sitting there "forever" rather than originating from a prior event,when did "forever" start?Answer:never.That's the definition of "forever".So we can't talk about a beginning.
The only kind of beginning it makes sense to talk about is the beginning of an event,and in order for that event to take place it had to come out of another event.
In the same way that we can imagine the notion of time extending endlessly into the future,if we posit that "things" have been engaging in "events" eternally(because if they haven't,at some point there would have been "nothing",and by very definition "nothing"---total absence---cannot produce "something",and we wouldn't exist),we solve the problem of beginnings.
I would posit that all of us,and everything that "exists",have "always"(can't comprehend it,but it makes sense)existed,and the nature of existence is that we change forms,experience events,always have and always will---there's much more to this than what I have lain out in far too many words.But Chris,I'm serious,in the effort I've put forth to express this,and also in my desire to find a woman with whom I'd be compatible---after all,this is a dating service.
So,if you're interested in serious discussion,that's fine with me,but if you just want to make wisecracks about Einstein,leave it alone.
 
:D

i must confess i was bit dissapointed too!

Lovellectual

1 - Infinite Cosmos
2 - Multiple Big Bang Events (BBEs)
3 - Multiple Universe Cosmology Model
4 - Infinite Cosmos Model

i particularly favor # 3! how about you??


:D
 
seriously explaining the universe...:rolleyes:

dating service...:bugeye:

Is there a connection??? :eek:
 
Lovelectual,

As far as wise cracks are concerned those were pretty lame, and were really stating pretty much the truth.

I'm tempted to say that what you are suggesting is that every effect must have a cause. That's fine, except that if the source of the big bang had been just waiting for infinite past time then what triggered it to explode? Whatever the trigger was it must have been triggered by a prior event, and that by a previous event, and so on forever into the past. The concept that something just waits forever then explodes doesn't work since the explosion is an event and by your own reasoning must have been caused by a prior event.

Can we agree that something just can't wait forever and then begins because that would be an uncaused first event and from all our experiences we expect always cause and effect.

The issue of an infinite future is easy to understand because the chain of events are already in progress. The issue of an infinite past is an issue because a cause must come before an event.

Could we perhaps have an infinite series of past causes and events? I don't see why not? Intuitively we might want to say that there must be a beginning that perhaps occurred in the infinite past, but that would be a meaningless statement since by definition infinity has no beginning. It might be difficult to imagine, since we have no experience of an infinite quantity, but then that is just a limitation of our imagination and not the concept.

However, this raises the issue of the Big Bang which appears to be the beginning of the universe. But if we have confidence in the logic I have just outlined then we must conclude that the big bang cannot be the beginning of the universe.

The theist attempts to resolve the issue of a beginning event by advocating the idea of something that exists outside the universe and which creates the first event. However, this doesn't solve any problems since now we are presented with a new entity that also needs to be explained. Where did this entity come from? If it was itself created then who created it, and then who created that creator, ad infinitum. If there is just a single creator then it follows that it must be infinite. So all that has been agreed is that something infinite must exist to explain the universe. If we strip away the apparently unnecessary theist layer then we are back to a simpler requirement of an infinite universe.

But back to the big bang: If the big bang is not the start of the universe then there must have been something before the big bang, or perhaps the big bang universe expands and then contracts, and explodes all over again in an infinite cycle. While this appears attractive and elegant, science is showing that this hypothesis seems highly unlikely. Evidence indicates that the known universe will expand forever.

Current scientific ideas offer various arrangements of multiple big bangs; another is the idea of parallel universes (multi-verses), etc. But really science doesn't offer a definitive explanation for the cause of the big bang, or of any big bang.

So we have the issue that science can't yet see to a time before the big bang, and theists will say that a god did it. There are no proofs for either yet.
 
Actually, I dont think Einstein ever admitted that he was an Atheist. He was Jewish growing up, and it is quite possible that he "converted." Though, I think he wished to keep an open mind.

You dont have to actually prove this to me. If you are right, i can take your word for it.
 
Slacker,

Einstein quoted he was an atheist in a private letter to someone who had specifically asked. The letters have now been published. I can give you a web link if you like.
 
Originally posted by Cris
Slacker,

Einstein quoted he was an atheist in a private letter to someone who had specifically asked. The letters have now been published. I can give you a web link if you like.

I would like the address, as I had not read that before, but had heard it. I would like to add it to memory. Thank you in advance, and nice work.
 
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