Exile would be a great punishment for people who commit severe crimes, and a nice alternative to capital punishment, in my opinion. It costs almost nothing, and to be honest it feels like much more harsh a punishment, especially if there is no country that will take the criminal. I just thought this up now, what do you think?
Exile.
- Thread starter Jaster Mereel
- Start date
I think we need to forget punishment and try to consider desired outcomes re what we do. What do we desire from someone who has committed a crime? do we desire they suffer or do we desire that they do not reoffend.
Unless your exile is permanent there is no evidence that it would result in the criminal not reoffending. Incarceration seems to increase likelihood of reoffending thus re the end goal it is ineffective.
So what can we do to ensure no reoffending:
Nice brain washing cap!
Unless your exile is permanent there is no evidence that it would result in the criminal not reoffending. Incarceration seems to increase likelihood of reoffending thus re the end goal it is ineffective.
So what can we do to ensure no reoffending:
Nice brain washing cap!
Seriously though, with my kids I try to think when they do something naughty what I need to do to ensure no repeat, is punishment ensuring no repeat or is it just a reinforcement of their hate of authority figure!
So, I pop on the brain washing cap and voila!
sorry, haven't got time to follow through this thought process but you see where I am going!
So, I pop on the brain washing cap and voila!
sorry, haven't got time to follow through this thought process but you see where I am going!http://teenink.com/Past/1997/8471.html
here: I am not entirely in agreement with this but it has a vague resemblance to my thought process.
"Punishment Or Rehabilitation?
Kevin C., Framingham, MA
What is the true aim of our prison system? Many would argue that it is to punish those who have committed wrongs. Yet this should be a secondary function of these institutions. Their most important function must be to rehabilitate and reintegrate criminals into society so prisons can have a positive effect on inmates.
Using punishment to rehabilitate a criminal is analogous to using an ice pack to fix a broken bone. Each remedy attempts to correct only the symptoms, but once they are taken away the problem is still there. As a weed must be torn out by its roots, crime must be eliminated by destroying its underlying causes.
The roots of crime are often a result of a person's alienation form society, which steals his dignity and worth. Consequently, this causes feelings of detachment and helplessness and destroys any feeling of personal responsibility to that community. In other words, he will have no personal interest in, nor the power to effect his community and therefore he cannot care about its fate. As a result of his apathy, he will have little objection to putting his personal welfare above that of the community by breaking the law.
As a society we must help alienated people by reviving their dignity and giving them the skills and knowledge to help themselves. Through education and job training, these criminals can have the power to take control of their own life and contribute to the community. Once able to contribute to the community, a person will feel a sense of ownership in that society. He will therefore want to protect the community, and uphold its laws. In short, a criminal with the right rehabilitation can be turned from a menace to society into one of its valuable assets.
A prisoner who is not given the chance to get an education, receive job training, and have healthy interactions with people is likely to walk out of prison in worse shape than when he went in. Conversely, after undergoing effective reform programs, he can make a positive impact on the community when he re-enters. To conclude, the true aim of our prison system must be to reform and rehabilitate criminals, not to simply punish them. ?"
How I differ to the above:
Child murderers can be prevented from reoffending by executing them
paedophiles and sex offenders (once we agree what one is!) castration
Permanent exhile for noisy neighbours
etc
here: I am not entirely in agreement with this but it has a vague resemblance to my thought process.
"Punishment Or Rehabilitation?
Kevin C., Framingham, MA
What is the true aim of our prison system? Many would argue that it is to punish those who have committed wrongs. Yet this should be a secondary function of these institutions. Their most important function must be to rehabilitate and reintegrate criminals into society so prisons can have a positive effect on inmates.
Using punishment to rehabilitate a criminal is analogous to using an ice pack to fix a broken bone. Each remedy attempts to correct only the symptoms, but once they are taken away the problem is still there. As a weed must be torn out by its roots, crime must be eliminated by destroying its underlying causes.
The roots of crime are often a result of a person's alienation form society, which steals his dignity and worth. Consequently, this causes feelings of detachment and helplessness and destroys any feeling of personal responsibility to that community. In other words, he will have no personal interest in, nor the power to effect his community and therefore he cannot care about its fate. As a result of his apathy, he will have little objection to putting his personal welfare above that of the community by breaking the law.
As a society we must help alienated people by reviving their dignity and giving them the skills and knowledge to help themselves. Through education and job training, these criminals can have the power to take control of their own life and contribute to the community. Once able to contribute to the community, a person will feel a sense of ownership in that society. He will therefore want to protect the community, and uphold its laws. In short, a criminal with the right rehabilitation can be turned from a menace to society into one of its valuable assets.
A prisoner who is not given the chance to get an education, receive job training, and have healthy interactions with people is likely to walk out of prison in worse shape than when he went in. Conversely, after undergoing effective reform programs, he can make a positive impact on the community when he re-enters. To conclude, the true aim of our prison system must be to reform and rehabilitate criminals, not to simply punish them. ?"
How I differ to the above:
Child murderers can be prevented from reoffending by executing them
paedophiles and sex offenders (once we agree what one is!) castration
Permanent exhile for noisy neighbours
etc
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Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Hardly the main point of this thread, but just for the record since this is a very hot topic rife with misunderstanding: Unless you have some pretty convincing and authoritative evidence to the contrary, everything I have read on the subject or learned from personal (ugh) acquaintance disagrees with that. Both the rape of adults and the seduction of children are manifestations of a psychotically violent and/or dominating nature. The penis is just a handy tool that can be taken anywhere without fear of discovery, the one that evokes the most fear and outrage, and the one that allows the fulfillment of two desires at the same time. The studies I've seen reports of indicate that chemically or surgically castrated offenders simply use other tools to perform the same or different violations. This is why it's not more widely practiced, even though a sizeable number of convicted offenders request it.Theoryofrelativity said:
Fraggle Rocker said:
very interesting....
Imagine requesting it?
I watched a documentary recently about a man who suddenly out of the blue became a dnagerous sexual predator and molested his step daughter. While on trial his lawyer suggested a brain scan as he was convinced this mans change was not natural. It was found he had a brain tumor pressing on part of his brain, after removal of this tumour his unnatural desires went again. later though they returned, a further brain scan showed the tumour had grown back. Again removed, again unnatural desires went.
They showed another case of a man who after a head injury suddenly became uninhibited and required counselling to stem his inappropriate behaviours.
The theory being is there part of the brain that can affect such things, the implication being could we cure it?
In answer to previous post that you made, Theoryofrelativity, exile would be permanent. And to be quite honest, I don't care about punishment, I care about ensuring that the criminal does not commit more offenses. Exile is a great way to do this, since they are no longer your problem. Oh yea, in order to pre-empt your response that it is irresponsible to dump dangerous people onto someone else, I will say that it is not the responsibility of the government to be concerned with the problems of other governments, only to protect it's citizens from criminals. There is no way that you can reasonably argue that exile would be ineffective, since by definition it prevents a criminal from commiting further crime in your jurisdiction. I think it would be quite a good idea.
Jaster Mereel:
You Mandalorian bastard, you.
You aren't considering that it also takes a great deal to assure that exile is permanent. Guards on the border, for instance. Police at home. How can not this person simply return to the country under a presumed identity and live their life unmolested?
Isn't execution simply a more effective way of dealing with crimes, then? For it makes it impossible for the criminal to act again and to act anywhere, and moreover, it does not need police nor guards of any sort.
As Stalin said, "No man, no problem."
You Mandalorian bastard, you.
You aren't considering that it also takes a great deal to assure that exile is permanent. Guards on the border, for instance. Police at home. How can not this person simply return to the country under a presumed identity and live their life unmolested?
Isn't execution simply a more effective way of dealing with crimes, then? For it makes it impossible for the criminal to act again and to act anywhere, and moreover, it does not need police nor guards of any sort.
As Stalin said, "No man, no problem."
Well, of course execution is an effective way of removing criminals from society. They are gone forever. I would reserve execution for the most heinous criminals, like the serial killers and whatnot, and also for those people who violate their exile mandate and are caught. Exile would be used instead of life in prisonment. Also, you send them out of the country with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Confiscate everything they own. That way, it would be much more difficult for them to return. Chances are, no one else will want them either. They will spend all of their time running from various authorities around the world. They will be hunted for the rest of their lives.
Jaster Mereel said:
you'd be surprised, many a murderer on deaths row receives love letters from some unknown female desiring thier attention, and this a fact!
Jaster Mereel:
Unless there identity was so known and so marked, I do not imagine that they could not relatively easily intergrate into those other societies, specifically if their language and habits would not be as different from the country of origin. For instance, I do not imagine that most Americans would find it horribly difficult to move to Canada, or for Britons to move to Ireland. But yes, it would not be pleasant, but nor would it be horrible to the same extent as death.
Unless there identity was so known and so marked, I do not imagine that they could not relatively easily intergrate into those other societies, specifically if their language and habits would not be as different from the country of origin. For instance, I do not imagine that most Americans would find it horribly difficult to move to Canada, or for Britons to move to Ireland. But yes, it would not be pleasant, but nor would it be horrible to the same extent as death.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Many of these guys are just sick, not deliberately evil. They'd really like to stop doing it and become nice people.Theoryofrelativity said:
My faith in science is second to no one. I'm sure we will make astounding progress in our understanding of the organic brain, the electrochemistry it supports, and the psychology it hosts. As to whether we will make sufficient progress to be able to cure any rapist, child molester, serial killer, or other sociopath now alive during his lifetime is a good question.
This is one of the reasons I oppose capital punishment almost universally. Maybe there's no reasonable doubt, not even any unreasonable doubt, about the person's guilt. Maybe there's no one alive who cares about him, and so would suffer cruelly if we execute him. But if he can be reformed and rehabilitated we could save him.
It's a tough decision. Is that worth the monetary and emotional expense of keeping him alive just in case, not to mention the fact that until we cure him we can't really make the probability zero that he won't get out of prison and do it again. There could always be an earthquake or a terrorist attack that hits the prison by mistake or on purpose.
The "almost" comes in with terrorists. They have a network behind them that will kidnap a dozen of your people and offer to trade them for their guy. You can't make the trade because their guy will probably kill more than a dozen of your people once he gets out of prison with all the neat stuff he learned there. But you will lose the twelve. So you have to execute terrorists.
The Israelis know that you can't negotiate with terrorists, but strangely, they can't face the fact that you must always execute them.
It doesn't matter. Kick them out, and make sure they don't come back. That's part of the punishment: they have nowhere to go, so they will be living illegally no matter where they are. They are unwelcome everywhere. The vast majority of people would find being an outcast everywhere to be excrutiating.wsionynw said:
Jaster Mereel said:
I can see where you're coming from but it would mean nations would have to deal with thousands of homeless criminals that had no choice but to live off food they find in bins or commit further crimes to survive. I doubt it would work.