Evolution vs. Creation?

C

CosmicOne

Registered Member
Does anyone else consider that Evolution and Creation both work together in a system that was "designed"? Science has no true argument with the Creation theory; science is just an offshoot, a byproduct of the knowledge inbued in the original Creation.
Of course, being raised in Christiandom, I can believe that Science is just the first bit of knowledge that sprung from the first bite that Eve took out of the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil!
According to the creations story, we were made only a step lower than the Angels of God; when Eve first disobeyed and took of the Fruit, our original creation, knowledge and power was severly hampered by the Original Sin. The Creator stripped Adam and Eve of their glorious state of being and cursed them, as punishment; we, our original understanding and power have been disconnected from the Source ever since. We now have just a small fraction of that original Knowledg; it is Science.
However, in our subsequent ignorance of these fact, we pitifully scrape to come to an understanding of who we are, what our purpose is and how to make sense out of our "Garden" and the Universe around us; all we know as Science can be chalked up to the remnants of our original Knowledge, a knowledge cut-off by the Original Sin!
Did not God create every living thing and give Man dominance over it all; keeping man distinct among His creations, still allowing us free will and reasoning, with faculties and a Mind like nothing else in God's creation; not the Great Apes of Evolution, nor the Dolphins or the most "intelligent" animal or creature on the planet; God said, "Let us make "man" in our Image, in our likeness".
In conclusion, the Animal or Natural world does indeed "evolve" and adapt as part of God's original Creation plan. However, Man did not evolve; he was "created" in the Creator's image to have dominance over the system of this Natural. The complex creation that is Man was created with an origital purpose in mind; everything else was created and evolves to support this original purpose for Man. Through disobediance we were separated from the true knowledge and can now only label our feeble attempts at understanding the chaos and order around us as Science.
How much more would we be if not for that first Sin?
 
Last edited:
I'm not really clear on what you're trying to say. Are you suggesting that God used evolution as a tool to create humans? Or are you saying that God used evolution to create everything else, and humans were specially created without having to evolve?
 
The latter is correct! The system of living things falls completely under the Natural Laws that God originally established, adapting and ...evolving to it's surroundings: Man was created to rule over that system! The is a distince separation of the two creations; Nature is the system, Science is our limited knowledge of that system; Man was created to have dominance over the system.

Nasor said:
I'm not really clear on what you're trying to say. Are you suggesting that God used evolution as a tool to create humans? Or are you saying that God used evolution to create everything else, and humans were specially created without having to evolve?
Click to expand...
 
CosmicOne said:
Did not God create every living thing and ... ?
Click to expand...
I'm aware of no evidence warranting such a belief, and you predictably offer none.

Neither evolution, nor science in general, preclude God(s).
Neither evolution, nor science in general, preclude Unicorns.

In brief, your point is pointless.
 
Man did not evolve; he was "created" in the Creator's image to have dominance over the system of this Natural.
Click to expand...
How convenient for us, a mythology that supports what we were doing anyway at the time it was compiled, being subservient to a kingly leader, and gathering resources to create personal wealth. The moral of the creation myth is: be obedient to authority. If we did that, no one would even know about evolution.

Have you noticed that nature doesn't need our help, would, in fact get along much better without it? Have you noticed our similarity to the ape family? That we share a huge percentage of our genetic code with such modest animals as mice?
...with faculties and a Mind like nothing else in God's creation; not the Great Apes of Evolution, nor the Dolphins or the most "intelligent" animal or creature on the planet;
Click to expand...
Our faculties are not like theirs, and their faculties are not like ours. Dolphins have extraordinary abilities that people do not, so do dogs. Intelligence has given us an advantage, but in dominating nature, we destroy it. Christianity is largely to blame for our widespread environmental problems.
Nature is the system, Science is our limited knowledge of that system; Man was created to have dominance over the system.
Click to expand...
Strange, how are we supposed to dominate nature and not destroy it with our "limited knowledge" of it. How are we to increase our limited knowledge if Christianity largely stands in opposition to science? If you accept the results of the scientific method to include evolution, why exclude the rest of the body of scientific knowledge, which was gained through the same methods?
 
Did not God create every living thing and give Man dominance over it all; keeping man distinct among His creations, still allowing us free will and reasoning, with faculties and a Mind like nothing else in God's creation;
Click to expand...
No, there were primates and some of them got smart. He was not kept distinct because there is a continum from apes to man. Man was not created to have dominance over the system, he is an aspect of that system and he is dependent upon that system. There were many species that had similar mental facilities such as neanderthals.

How much more would we be if not for that first Sin?
Click to expand...

How much less would we be if we still thought knowledge was a sin?
 
I believe the Moral of creation is; our decisions have consequesnces-good or bad. Nature does not need us because it was created first! The natural order of the cosmos was set in place before Man was formed; nature was already set to it's rythmn of order and chaos. The imagination of the Creator had already expressed itself in the creation of the Apes, Dolphin, Dogs and Mice...some set to "evolve" and adapt in certains ways in response to Man's dominance and decisions. I believe the similarities between Man and the Ape family, between the genetic codes of man and mice is because they both came from the same creator; human creation was the Great Creation coming only after the forming of the Cosmos and all it's inhabitants. The original plan was for man to dominate and rule over all the creations of Earth and Nature; after the Sin of disobediance our ability to follow that plan was hampered; thus with our now limited knowledge of our original purpose we do indeed destroy nature in our efforts to dominate it, but again, our decisions have consequences. Christianity stands in opposition to Science only in that Science represents the body of Man's knowlege of his environment and Christianity represents the pursuit of the knowlege of God, which actually encompasses Science. The 5% of the brainpower most humans utilize has produced all we have today, including Science; the 100% of the brainpower we were imbued with in Adam and Eve's original form is the True knowledge that was subsequently lost when Eve bit the Fruit! We can only struggle now, to grapple and deal with our existence with that 5% of brainpower left over after the punishment for the Original Sin; that small percentage was able to produce our scientific knowledge of our world, Man, in our vanity can only surmise that our knowledge (science) is THE knowlege and will eventually be all encompassing. We are too vain to realize that the eyelids of our knowledge are barely open. Consider one powerful and wise enough to create all there is; Consider man being created in His image, Consider losing that original creation and being separated from the that Force, what we have left is our own understanding, now severly limited from what it once was...that understanding we brand Science; it's all we have left from the original quotient given in the beginning.

|
spidergoat said:
How convenient for us, a mythology that supports what we were doing anyway at the time it was compiled, being subservient to a kingly leader, and gathering resources to create personal wealth. The moral of the creation myth is: be obedient to authority. If we did that, no one would even know about evolution.

Have you noticed that nature doesn't need our help, would, in fact get along much better without it? Have you noticed our similarity to the ape family? That we share a huge percentage of our genetic code with such modest animals as mice?

Our faculties are not like theirs, and their faculties are not like ours. Dolphins have extraordinary abilities that people do not, so do dogs. Intelligence has given us an advantage, but in dominating nature, we destroy it. Christianity is largely to blame for our widespread environmental problems.

Strange, how are we supposed to dominate nature and not destroy it with our "limited knowledge" of it. How are we to increase our limited knowledge if Christianity largely stands in opposition to science? If you accept the results of the scientific method to include evolution, why exclude the rest of the body of scientific knowledge, which was gained through the same methods?
Click to expand...
 
CosmicOne said:
when Eve first disobeyed and took of the Fruit, our original creation, knowledge and power was severly hampered by the Original Sin.
Click to expand...
you cant seriously believe that story is the truth of human races origins can you?:rolleyes:
www.talkorigins.org
The Creator stripped Adam and Eve of their glorious state of being and cursed them, as punishment; we, our original understanding and power have a knowledge cut-off by the Original Sin!
Click to expand...
so knowledge is sin?!huh
god gives you tree of knowledge,tells you not to eat the fruit,while already knowing that you will eat it,b/c heck he created you that way!!
gotta love those bable contradictions!
oh look theres more
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
Did not God create every living thing and give Man dominance over it all;
Click to expand...
NO,the common litle bacteria can wipe us all out in no time,especialy if we pray to god to heal us,instead of using the modern medicine.
man is just a highly evolved animal.
 
CosmicOne said:
The 5% of the brainpower most humans utilize has produced all we have today,
Click to expand...
Id like to know,
how did you measure how much brainpower people use?? :confused:
 
As much as we genetically share in common with those primates and as smart as some of them became, they never have or will hold the capacity to have the "free will" or wherewithall to dominate their environment, to move outside the natural course set for them, as man does...shaping and altering our enviroment to suit our will. Now we may be an aspect of this system; before the original sin we were made to have dominance over it. The consequences of Adam and Eve's actions are profound and have changed the ability of Man to perfom the functions of his original role as grand creation of the Creator. Mental faculties are one thing, free will and choice are another. No other creature was made to have free choice and free will, able make decisions one way or another concerning it's life, as Man has. No ape will ever evolve into or live on a "Planet of the Apes" where they can govern over their environment like man does the earth. This is where the apes stop and man goes on. Man goes, somewhat ineffectively, on because he was created to.

Voodoo Child said:
No, there were primates and some of them got smart. He was not kept distinct because there is a continum from apes to man. Man was not created to have dominance over the system, he is an aspect of that system and he is dependent upon that system. There were many species that had similar mental facilities such as neanderthals.



How much less would we be if we still thought knowledge was a sin?
Click to expand...
 
Do you truly blieve that the infinitely complex creation that is man could form from creative goo? From goo to Mars in sevreal billion year? Knowlege was already give to Adam and Eve- the Fruit of Knowlege was only the test of their obedience to their creator, which,yes, He knew they would fail; our present limited knowledge is all that's left of the original endowment because of disobedience. Remember the Garden had no bacteria or anything that could harm man; these things came about as a result of disobedience. and after the original sin. Everything detrimental to man came into being after Sin came to be.

Q25 said:
you cant seriously believe that story is the truth of human races origins can you?:rolleyes:
www.talkorigins.org

so knowledge is sin?!huh
god gives you tree of knowledge,tells you not to eat the fruit,while already knowing that you will eat it,b/c heck he created you that way!!
gotta love those bable contradictions!
oh look theres more
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

NO,the common litle bacteria can wipe us all out in no time,especialy if we pray to god to heal us,instead of using the modern medicine.
man is just a highly evolved animal.
Click to expand...
 
Scientific theories have long promoted that humans only use a very small percentage of their brain capacity.

QUOTE=Q25]Id like to know,
how did you measure how much brainpower people use?? :confused:[/QUOTE]
 
Yes, I have considered this. But for personal experience, I could see how man could invent God for various reasons. However, If there was a Creator do you think man, in his current state, could phathom such a Being's purposes? Could we hope to "understand" his ways? Or, would we put Him nicely into one or our acceptable frames of thought.?

QUOTE=Q25]ever considered He is just an imaginary friend invented by men?
the way He is defined is totaly contradictory;
www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/[/QUOTE]
 
If there were true evidence we would not be having this discussion! Do you offer evidence of His non-existence; I'd like to hear about that!
ConsequentAtheist said:
I'm aware of no evidence warranting such a belief, and you predictably offer none.

Neither evolution, nor science in general, preclude God(s).
Neither evolution, nor science in general, preclude Unicorns.

In brief, your point is pointless.
Click to expand...
 
Knowlege or the pursuit thereof is not sin; disobedience was the sin! Scripture clearly holds knowledge as a prize to be sought after and coveted, to be held onto as if it were life itself.

Voodoo Child said:
No, there were primates and some of them got smart. He was not kept distinct because there is a continum from apes to man. Man was not created to have dominance over the system, he is an aspect of that system and he is dependent upon that system. There were many species that had similar mental facilities such as neanderthals.


How much less would we be if we still thought knowledge was a sin?
Click to expand...
 
CosmicOne,

Can you precisely describe the "Original Sin" that clearly, from what you are saying, lays the foundation for the need and arrival of Jesus and the whole of Christianity?

Make sure you read the text from my link in my previous post first but here is the bit you should study -

Now, as Adam and Eve don't have the faintest idea of right and wrong, they don't know it's a Bad Idea to disobey God ("Hey, God just told us not to eat that fruit!", "So? What's your point?", "Erm... I don't know. Save some for me!") The only way they can gain this knowledge is by.... Eating from the Tree!
Click to expand...
Doh!

Kat
 
Hi Kat,

Thanks for the link. All profound questions. Here's my take on a few of them.

Adam's got Balls! I believe God kept with His original creation them of having life forms carry their "seed" within themselves. You know, fruit bearing it's own seed and so on. Adam would have been created with his own seed in his testicles, whether Eve was an afterthought or not.

Eve; what better way to bond two creations than to have one come from the other? Much like children come from the seed inside their parents; they are not created from the dust of the earth.

Death; No death before the fall! Each creature played it's role in the Garden, man was set to live for hundreds if not millions of years when created; decay and death came to be only after the "Fall". I believe the purpose of fly's and such were not to infect the Garden but to be a part of the Paradise; If disease was present in the Garden Adam and Eve were immune to it, until they were no longer protected by the state of original creation, through disobedience.

The Apple; The knowlege of right and wrong is different from being obedient; they may not have known right from wrong but they understood when God told them to be obedient to his words. They were given a choice to obey or disobey; there is an inate sense being disobedient,as there is now the sense of right and wrong in humans. The death described is a spiritual death or separation from God; surely they must have known they did not want to be "dead" or "separted" from their creator.

Naked Adam; Much like animals do not recognize that they are "naked" nor did Adam and Eve, in fact, we'd all still be naked today if not for the revealing of their nakedness through disobedience. We'd all look at each other, naked, much as animals view each other today, without clothes, but unaware that they are naked.
The "skins" were taken from animals and was the fist and original "Sacrifice". There is no covering of sins without the blood sacrifice; God make the first sacrifice when he took the skins from his lesser creation to cover the sin (nakedness) of his greater creation.

The Kids; you got me on that one! I've often pondered this question to no avail. I'll see what I can find and get back to you on this one



Katazia said:
CosmicOne,

Thanks for offering yourself here as such fertile fodder.

Try this link that describes much of the utter stupidity of the Adam and Eve story.

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/eden.html

Note also that man did not evolve from the apes. Man and ape evolved through different parrallel routes.

Kat
Click to expand...
 
Kat,
the Original Sin was disobedience! Up to that point Adam and Eve had folowed God's directions and instructions in the Garden, naming the creatures, dressing and tending the Garden and such. Being made in HIS image, they had the original connection to the Creator and knew, as Adam reiterated to Eve,that they were about to disobey God's instructions.
Katazia said:
CosmicOne,

Can you precisely describe the "Original Sin" that clearly, from what you are saying, lays the foundation for the need and arrival of Jesus and the whole of Christianity?

Make sure you read the text from my link in my previous post first but here is the bit you should study -

Doh!

Kat
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top