Evolution Of Snakes

superstring01

Moderator
There seems to be very little evidence as to how snakes evolved. Wiki provides two possible ways (burrowing lizards, swimming lizards), but I've been unable to find a good resource on this.

Wondering if any of our Sciforums experts has any thoughts or references on this subject.

~String
 
So a lizard told a joke at a party and god was there and he was like "I don't find that joke funny, not in the slightest :mad:" and with a twinkle of his nose BAM snake. True story.
 
There seems to be very little evidence as to how snakes evolved. Wiki provides two possible ways (burrowing lizards, swimming lizards), but I've been unable to find a good resource on this.

Wondering if any of our Sciforums experts has any thoughts or references on this subject.

~String

It is one of the reasons why I do not fully understand the evolution.
How appeared the poisonous system to snakes.
I thought a lot and I did not find any possibility of developing progressive the tooth canal connected to venomous glands.
 
It is one of the reasons why I do not fully understand the evolution.
How appeared the poisonous system to snakes.
I thought a lot and I did not find any possibility of developing progressive the tooth canal connected to venomous glands.

There are any number of organisms past and present that inject a poison through a calcium tube. Teeth are calcium. They're just modified bone cells that perform a special function.

Evolution is about mutations. If you want to search, you can find any number of human mutations, usually dead. Things like children born with their stomach/intestines outside the abdominal cavity. Is that a good mutation? Nature didn't think so, and those children die, before ever reaching sexual maturity and so don't get to pass those genes on to their offspring.

An organism with a poisonous stinger in its tail could mutate with the stinger being in its mouth. Is that a good mutation? So long as the organism survives and passes the mutation on to the offspring it might be.
 
Not really the mod note: I was really hoping that this thread would not turn into a debate about the existence of evolution (which I'm annoyed with in EVERY other topic in this forum), rather I'd like a discussion about the nature of the evolution of snakes (and if need be, other reptiles). If you folks who have doubts, kindly take your doubts to another thread and discuss/debate them there.

Here is a good article. It's mostly in layman's language, but it has a lot of information and when there's controversy over a point it says so.

Thanks Sir!

So a lizard told a joke at a party and god was there and he was like "I don't find that joke funny, not in the slightest :mad:" and with a twinkle of his nose BAM snake. True story.

That was actually kinda funny.

~String
 
Well Eupodophis was a marine snake, so that points to an aquatic reason to loss the limbs. But I have a problem with that theory, look at all the other land creatures that go aquatic, sure some tend to the loss the back legs but they usually turn legs into flippers.
 
Well Eupodophis was a marine snake, so that points to an aquatic reason to loss the limbs. But I have a problem with that theory, look at all the other land creatures that go aquatic, sure some tend to the loss the back legs but they usually turn legs into flippers.

That's what I was thinking.

In the case of Sea Snakes, you have some great marine swimmers, but that seems almost like an afterthought; an adaption to what already was. I feel like--as you said--they'd have mutated their limbs into rudders and/or flippers.

~String
 
Ambush predators might not need legs - and would benefit from not having to devote resources to them.

Especially coldblooded ones.

Also, anything that ate rodents would gain much from fitting into their holes, while still being able to kill and eat them upon encounter. A larger animal with shorter legs - and then shorter yet - might eat better in good times and live longer in hard times.

So genuine sea snakes would have lost their legs on land (not to be confused with eels and the like, that lost their appendages in the water), and adapted their ambush lifestyle to the environment upon returning to the water - filling a niche.
 
I'm on an natural selection reading bender and have been digging for info on snakes and their past.

Like you pointed out, Ice, it seems more logical that their ancestor was a niche predator who started following small critters into their burrows. Legs having slowly faded away, it finally started taking trips into water (more likely fresh water, then down stream into oceans from there) where it evolved to fill that niche.

~String
 
From wikipedia:

The ability to sense infrared thermal radiation evolved independently in several different families of snakes. Essentially, it allows these animals to “see” radiant heat at wavelengths between 5 and 30 μm to a degree of accuracy such that a blind rattlesnake can target vulnerable body parts of the prey at which it strikes.[1] It was previously thought that the organs evolved primarily as prey detectors, but recent evidence suggests that it may also be used in thermoregulation and predator detection, making it a more general-purpose sensory organ than was supposed.[2][3]

The facial pit underwent parallel evolution in pitvipers and some boas and pythons. It evolved once in pitvipers and multiple times in boas and pythons.[4] The electrophysiology of the structure is similar between the two lineages, but they differ in gross structural anatomy. Most superficially, pitvipers possess one large pit organ on either side of the head, between the eye and the nostril (loreal pits), while boas and pythons have three or more comparatively smaller pits lining the upper and sometimes the lower lip, in or between the scales (labial pits). Those of the pitvipers are the more advanced, having a suspended sensory membrane as opposed to a simple pit structure.

In vipers, the pit organ is seen only in the subfamily Crotalinae: the pitvipers. The organ is used extensively by them to detect and target warm-blooded prey such as rodents and birds, and it was previously assumed that the organ evolved specifically for that purpose. However, recent evidence shows that the pit organ may also be used for thermoregulation. In an experiment that tested snakes' abilities to locate a cool thermal refuge in an uncomfortably hot maze, all pitvipers were able to locate the refuge quickly and easily, while true vipers were unable to do so. This suggests that the pitvipers were using their pit organs to aid in thermoregulatory decisions.[2] It is also possible that the organ may even have evolved as a defensive adaptation rather than a predatory one, or that multiple pressures may have potentially contributed to the organ's development.[3] The use of the heat pit to direct thermoregulation in pythons and boas has not yet been determined. Viperine snakes (which lack pit organs) also use thermal cues to guide strike behavior, but not to guide thermoregulation.[2][5]

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[1] Kardong KV, Mackessy SP. 1991. The strike behavior of a congenitally blind rattlesnake. Journal of Herpetology 25: 208-211.

[2] Krochmal AR, Bakken GS, LaDuc TJ. 1994. Heat in evolution’s kitchen: evolutionary perspectives on the function and origin of the facial pit of pitvipers (Viperidae:Crotalinae). The Journal of Experimental Biology 207: 4231-4238.

[3] Greene HW. 1992. The ecological and behavioral context for pitviper evolution. In Campbell JA, Brodie ED Jr. 1992. Biology of the Pitvipers. Texas: Selva. 467 pp. 17 plates. ISBN 0-9630537-0-1.

[4] Pough et al. 1992. Herpetology: Third Edition. Pearson Prentice Hall:pearson Education, Inc., 2002.

[5] Breidenbach CV. 1990. Thermal cues influence strikes in pitless vipers. Journal of herpetology 24:448-450
 
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