evolution of avian flight

S

spuriousmonkey

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Banned
I was browsing an issue of Science during lunch and there was an interesting article about the development of flight in birds.

Some people had studied a flightless bird and discovered that flapping the otherwise useless wings was extremely effective for climbing steep inclines. This could then have been the primary reason why feathered wings have developed. The developed to help birds climb (instead of gliding for instance).

They also noticed that the wings are flapped at a different angle for climbing than flying. So they are different actions



Wing-Assisted Incline Running and the Evolution of Flight
Kenneth P. Dial
Science 2003 January 17; 299: 402-404. (in Reports)
 
reply

please see Nature cover story;

Vol 421 No 6921 pg 323 AND pg 335

also in this issue 2 articles that look like they discuss biophysics of bird flight

(BTW; this is also the issue that celbrates the 50th anniversery of Watson's and Crick's discovery of DNA double helical structure)
 
Re: reply

Originally posted by paulsamuel
please see Nature cover story;

Vol 421 No 6921 pg 323 AND pg 335

also in this issue 2 articles that look like they discuss biophysics of bird flight

(BTW; this is also the issue that celbrates the 50th anniversery of Watson's and Crick's discovery of DNA double helical structure)
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maybe we should starting to give short summaries if we quote a story, since not everybody has access to scientific journals. It is ok for me, but the university is paying for online access to a zillion journals. But not everybody might be this lucky.
 
Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
Sorry :( I should pay for those?
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not to please me fetus, you can do what you want. I'm all for personal freedom...

but i imagine not everybody has access and it might be courteous to them to summarize in a sentence what's actually in the reference. Just trying to steer the thread a bit
 
Birds evolved from dinosaurs and were able to fly because their wings had thin membranes compared to their body size. Their bodies had hollow bones that made them much lighter, and the wings were positioned below their torso instead of above which increased the lift surface area. The positions of the muscle structure also was a key factor.
 
I wish someone would stick a fork in my eyes so that I wouldn't see the mess that Valich is making of this subforum.

Do you realize that every thread for three pages are threads that he's ressurected? That's insane. Seriously insane.
 
What utter claptrap. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the function of the forums is to promote discussions. If valich sees a point he wishes to address from an inactive thread, more power to him. If the other forum members think his new point is irrelevant and the thread should have remained dead they will indicate this by not responding.
Get real. Stop saying stop.
 
Hey. I can cross post too:

Claptrap?
I can understand him bringing back a thread or two.
But three fucking pages?
Three pages, man.
And he shows no signs of stopping.
And many of these threads are basically duplicates. Talking about the same thing and then he references a thread he just ressurected in another thread that he just ressurected.
Circles within circles.

As I said, I admire his enthusiasm, but it has to end somewhere.

There were threads that were active in this forum, now they're three pages deep. (Most of them.)

And I'll say stop as much as I want.
I think he's making a mess of the forum.
Simple as that.

Three pages and counting.


Hell. Just look at it from a practical standpoint. He's buried threads three pages deep. Notice that I didn't call him a spammer. I don't think he is one. He's making contributions to the threads. Even if some are repetitive. But, they are contributions.

But three pages deep. The threads are dead when they go off the front page. He asks questions in some of those threads. They're not going to be answered because nobody's going to read them. They're three pages deep. He's also addressing forum members and expecting them to answer but these forum members haven't participated for years. FOR YEARS.

All I'm saying is CHILL.
Go dig up some internet porn or something. Come back to tomorrow and see if anything interesting has been brought up in any of the threads. Hell, sit there and think up an idea for an interesting thread. Something which will take time to write and proofread and post.

Anything but please don't push it to 4 pages!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the function of the forums is to promote discussions.
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Yes. And that's my point. Burying threads three pages deep isn't promoting discussion. It's killing it.
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As I saw in one BBC (or was it Discovery) program, they had a version, that the movement of bird wings is the same as raptor dinosaurs did with their tiny front claws, i.e., taking chunks of meat out. Just a theory though.
 
Hey, I logged onto Sciforum, browsed through the Biology and Genetics subject category, and when I saw a subject of interest that I might be able to contribute something to and help out with and also learn something from I posted. I think knowledge and helping other people understand something is a "good." These forums are not "archived." They're all still open.
 
I know that the connection of the wings - the angle and location at where they attached (I think around the pectoral muscle) - was a lot different than that of birds today, and the body was said to be above the wings so the undersurface was more flat with greater surface area for increased lift.
 
In the program they said that the movement was the same as the modern birds do, something like forward thrust and heavy pull back. It was some time ago, I don't remember the details so well...
 
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