Evolution, how does biological life interact and change according to other life forms

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EmptyForceOfChi

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Ok, firstly I do not exactly know how to word everything with precision so bare with me please.


Looking at various forms of life, from plants to animals etc we can see that there is a kind of interaction and understanding on a deep genetic level of some sort. Plants evolve in ways which seem like they understand what is needed in other species. for example a tree will lure animals with sweet tasting substances like fruit to ensure the seed's are spread when passed through the digestive systems. They secrete a sweet sap for ants to eat to ensure protection in areas where other types of insects happen to harm those tree's.


The decoy or "bluffing" traits of weaker animals is interesting, how a butterfly will have the pattern of a large predators eyes on it's wings to scare off potential killers. Snakes that are harmless adopt the patterns of deadly snake types to ward off predators that know the signal of danger in the animal kingdom.


the banana has evolved to fit the grasp of primates, the tree (plant to be precise) has seemingly developed a fruit tht caters through its fruit an understanding of the primtes hand shape.


There are thousands of examples of this through every part of the world where nature thrives, I have named but just a few. How does this actualy work?, how can a butterfly mimic the eyes of a predator of a completely different species in it's wing pattern?. How do tree's develop sweet tasting fruits that attract seed carriers?, how can tree DNA have any interactions or "understanding" of the tastebuds of animals?.


I do not understand how this works.


peace.
 
But you ain't the first to point that out, old son. -that evolution appears to evolve "together", or different organisms co-evolve. This was one of Darwin's key observations about 150 years ago.
 
"I do not understand how this works."

Nor does anyone else, so you are not alone. Mimicry, symbiosis etc are all marvelous features of the natural world. Darwinism posits natural selection for these marvels, but the survival of the fitest cannot explain the arrival of the fitest. These adaptations have no explanation other than creation.
 
mynameisDan said:
"I do not understand how this works."

Nor does anyone else, so you are not alone. Mimicry, symbiosis etc are all marvelous features of the natural world. Darwinism posits natural selection for these marvels, but the survival of the fitest cannot explain the arrival of the fitest. These adaptations have no explanation other than creation.
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What are the mainstream ideas explining this, what scientists hold the most credible theory's explaining this exact topic?. I do not see much going around about this.


pece.
 
Vkothii said:
You trust a "science forum" that much? You know there are google-loads of online documents?
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I never just take in information and believe in it, I have already asked what the mainstream belief is among the scientific community, sked to be pointed in the direction of the most credible theory's on this subject.

Wy are you so reluctant to give your account of what you know about this subject?, if you have any information to share regarding this evolutional trait in nature I would like to hear it.

I am google searching this subject and have been for over 1 hour, I am yet to find much great information that shows anything significant to me. Mutations, survival of the fittest, trial and error, randomness and genetic variations due to mutations.

I can't find anything that answers my question, I am asking here in the biology forum, Whats the point in hving a science forum that does not teach people science. Especialy a Biology sub forum that does not tech biology to people.


peace.

peace.
 
while you are at it have your darwinist friends explain metamorphosis. How did evolution in a step by step process bring about a phenomena like this. Here you have a catapillar ball up into a caccoon, turn to a jelly like substance and transform into a completely different creature. The answer is that there is no natural explanation which is sufficient to explain it. Evolution believers posit just so stories which the gullible believe without thinking. But no one really understands this. The best explanation is these things were all designed to behave in this way. More and more scientists are conceding this fact now, some at great risk to their jobs and livelihoods.
 
From Wikipedia.


"Biological mimicry[1] occurs when a group of organisms,[2] the mimics, have evolved to share common perceived characteristics with another group, the models,[3] through the selective action of a signal-receiver[4] or dupe. Collectively this is known as a mimicry complex.[4] The model is usually another species except in cases of automimicry. The signal-receiver is typically another intermediate organism like the common predator of two species, but may actually be the model itself, such as a moth resembling its spider predator.[5] As an interaction, mimicry is in most cases advantageous to the mimic and harmful to the receiver, but may increase, reduce or have no effect on the fitness of the model depending on the situation. Models themselves are difficult to define in some cases, for example eye spots may not bear resemblance to any specific organism's eyes, and camouflage often cannot be attributed to any particular model.



It is widely accepted that mimicry evolves as a positive adaptation; that is, the mimic gains fitness via convergent evolution which results in resemblance to another species, though there are a few who have suggested that evolution is non-adaptive or merely a result of structural similarities. The lepidopterist (and sometime author) Vladimir Nabokov argued that much of insect mimicry, including the Viceroy/Monarch mimicry, resulted from the fact that coloration patterns in both species simply had a common structural basis, and thus the tendency for convergence by chance was high.[68] However, this very example provides evidence precisely to the contrary, as the viceroy's color pattern is completely unlike any of the species to which it is closely related, and the viceroy itself has three color forms, each adapted to resemble a different species of Danaus.[24] Likewise, this example is based on two organisms that are indeed fairly similar in structure (both butterflies), while a great many cases of mimicry (especially in large Batesian/Mũllerian complexes) involve insects from multiple orders that share virtually no structural similarities whatsoever; beetles, true bugs, moths, wasps, bees, and flies may all belong to a single mimetic complex, despite profound differences.[7]

The most widely accepted model used to explain the evolution of mimicry in butterflies is the two-step hypothesis. In this model the first step involves mutation in modifier genes that regulate a complex cluster of linked genes associated with large changes in morphology. The second step consists of selections on genes with smaller phenotypic effects and this leading to increasing closeness of resemblance. This model is supported by empirical evidence that suggests that there are only a few single point mutations that cause large phenotypic effects while there are numerous others that produce smaller effects. Some regulatory elements are now known to be involved in a supergene that is involved in the development of butterfly color patterns. Computational simulations of population genetics have also supported this idea."



Which still explains nothing, where is the interaction and explnation of how it actualy works.


peace.
 
mynameisDan said:
while you are at it have your darwinist friends explain metamorphosis. How did evolution in a step by step process bring about a phenomena like this. Here you have a catapillar ball up into a caccoon, turn to a jelly like substance and transform into a completely different creature. The answer is that there is no natural explanation which is sufficient to explain it. Evolution believers posit just so stories which the gullible believe without thinking. But no one really understands this. The best explanation is these things were all designed to behave in this way. More and more scientists are conceding this fact now, some at great risk to their jobs and livelihoods.
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Evolution is EVILLLLL!!!! He found us out! We want to convince the minds of innocent children so we can absolutely nothing at all! It doesn't matter!! You'll never catch me!!! :runaway:
 
No it does not,


How can the phenotype be caused by being influenced by a totaly different species, natural selection deals with species using a trial and error method of evolution.

If a stick insect looks like a stick you can't just say "the phenotype of this species was achieved through random mutations of trial and error, leaving only the favoured and best results" basicaly saying the stick insect came across a stick phenotype by random mutation and kept it because it was succesful.


Sorry but natural selection does not fill in the blanks of mimicry. claiming it explains everything about mimicry is just clutching at the theory in hope that it somehow explains everything.

Lets not add parts to the theory just to mke it fit, or we will just be saying anything in order for it to be correct, regardless of facts.

Natural selection and survival of the fittest does not explain this natural evolutionary trait in nature.


peace.
 
What happens is that the situation presents a creature with a possible avenue of gradual improvement, a gradient along which future adaptation can run. Say an insect has a slight resemblence to a leaf. It manages to avoid predation by a certain percentage. Say it's offspring show a range of variations, some of which happen to resemble a leaf even more. Those offspring will suffer a slightly smaller percentage of predation, thus future variation is based on that more leaf-like theme. Gradually, the insect more and more resembles a leaf.

The story of fig wasps and their relationship to the fig tree is astounding, but too complex to summarize completely here. Basically, each side tries to take advantage of the other, and there are built in but passive mechanisms that limit the extent to which this can happen. The more the wasps "win", the fewer trees there are and visa-versa.

Natural selection does indeed describe it all perfectly.
 
Betrayer0fHope said:
Evolution is EVILLLLL!!!! He found us out! We want to convince the minds of innocent children so we can absolutely nothing at all! It doesn't matter!! You'll never catch me!!! :runaway:
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I have already found you. I am slaying evilutionists today. You could be next.
 
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