Ethics: Where did you get yours?

[Adam]

I think I got my ideas of ethics and such from these sources:
- My parents.
- Experience, and my own reasoning.
- A little from my education.
- Some undoubtedly from television.
- Frankston library.

"What sort of television?", you might ask. Well, the only things I really watched as a child were the kids' activities shows such as Play School, and those great old movies with swashbucklers, knights, Clint Eastwood, and so on. In those movies heroes were heroes and everything was black and white. The ones who slapped the women were bad guys, and the heroes beat the snot out of them. The heroes risked life and limb at every opportunity to do what was right, for no other reason than it was right. Personally, I don't see the harm in television if such ideas are portrayed. I'm often accused of living in a different world than everyone else, because I stick to the rules that matter to me regardless. Most things in daily life don't matter to me at all, and I'm quite happy to let everything go whatever way it may. But on important matters, I will not bend. I think TV had a large, and positive, influence on me in that regard.

Frankston library is the one nearest to where I grew up. My parents never tried to give me their religious/philosophical/political beliefs and such. Instead they gave me a library card. Some things I got from them , mainly in the area of personal relationships of course. But that library card was a great gift.

So, where did you gets yours?

 

[Asguard]

Parents,
personal experiances (DEFINITLY don't want to go there again)
and books, my main way of escape, fansy books, just like adam said good Vs evil sort of books

 

[Xev]

Philosophy:

Mostly things that I've come to realize on my own, but I echo the sentiments in J.S Mill's "On Liberty" the most. Also a lot of Locke in there.

Basically, I am a democrat.

Logic:

My actions should coincide with the demands of logic, and my ideals should be logical.

Egotism, hedonism and the Absurd:

I refuse to act unethically simply because I am an egotistical bitch. Few things are worth sacrificing my ethics for. I'd do so to save lives, but likely not for many other reasons.

The Absurd comes into play because I know that my actions are pretty much meaningless, but do what I have to do anyways.

Practicality:

Basically, I do what I have to do to keep myself and others safe.

The Code of the Hacker:

Of minimal importance, it more embodies than shaped my ideals, but it bears mention.

I value the free exchange of information and ideas beyond anything else.

 

[Joeman]

I learn ethics from Xev.

I have conscience but I don't know much about ethics. In a D&D world my alignment would be chaotic good. I don't screw others to get ahead (mainly because I don't need to, I am always ahead), but I don't go by the books. My conscience is my guidance, and I do have a good one.

 

[Asguard]

i would be neutral good

 

[A4Ever]

I would be a battle mage

 

[Xev]

I'd be one of those warrior-chick types who carries a broadsword and has a pet dragon.

That'd be cool.

Thanks Joeman.

 

[Riomacleod]

99% of my moral education was self-taught, mainly from experience, from reflection, and from Philosophic reading, mainly Plato. the other 1% is hold-over from sunday school, which still remains unquestioned.

Joeman, I doubt your "chaotic goodness" as I read your work in other threads, whether you believe yourself to be CG, what I have read flies in the face of it.

 

[Joeman]

Originally posted by Riomacleod
Joeman, I doubt your "chaotic goodness" as I read your work in other threads, whether you believe yourself to be CG, what I have read flies in the face of it.

Ha! Every post of yours suggest you are lawful evil.

 

[Xev]

This looks like it is shaping up to be one weeeeeeeeeeeeeeird flamewar.

Chaotic good characters are strong indivualists marked by a streak of kindness and benevolence. They believe in all the virtues of goodness and right, but they have little use for laws and regulations. They have no use for people who "try to push folk around and tell them what to do." Their actions are guided by their own moral compass which, although good, may not always be in perfect agreement with the rest of society. A brave frontiersman forever moving on as settlers follow in his wake is an example of a chaotic good character.

Taken from TSR's The Player's Handbook.

Yeah, that sounds like Joeman. Why do you disagree, Rio?

source

Edit to add that I hope that my character would be more a representation of chaotic good than anything else.

 

[Squid Vicious]

I like to think I'm a chaotic neutral, but in reality im probably a little closer to centre than that...

 

[Asguard]

i am neutral good, maybe leaning a little to lawful good

 

[Riomacleod]

Xev, i don't engage in flame wars.

He tries to kill civilians. He deserves no sympathy.

The guy very likely did something wrong. Why wouldn't FBI arrest me? Those terrorists are having too much right in US than in any other country.

That Jose Padilla dude was in and out of jail before he got brained washed by Islam - most retarded religion on earth. Therefore he doesn't get any sympathy.

I refuse to let laws or constitutions or whatever handcuff our war effort. Just like any war, people must be sacrificed.

The probability of him being guilty is very high. If not, he has to be sacrificed for greater goods. It is his own fault to putting himself in that position.

The ends justify the means.

There must be laws to protect the stupid from killing others or themselves otherwise a lot of people are gonna die.

I don't think I could make up a more lawful evil set of quotations.

Here is the Wizards of the Coast's interpretation of evil:
http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/srdalignment.rtf

"Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.

For clarity's sake, here's the interpretation of good:

"Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.

You make the call.

On a more general note, in response to my own supposed Lawful Evilness. I disagree. In fact, I like to think that I am CG myself, or at least chaotic neutral. Joeman, the Bill of Rights isn't bequeathing rights to us. Government doesn't have the power to do such a thing. The rights listed (and it is not an exhaustive list) are rights we have simply as human beings. By being born into this world, we are entitled to them, if we're born in the US or if we're born in some backwater South African farm.

Furthermore, i don't think that anyone thinks that they're evil. No one wakes up and says "I'm evil, yay, yay, yay!". Everyone thinks that they're doing the right thing, whether they're going about it the right way, or the wrong way is a matter of their moral compass, not what they say to themselves in the mirror every morning.

 

[Joeman]

Originally posted by Riomacleod
Xev, i don't engage in flame wars.

I don't think I could make up a more lawful evil set of quotations.

Chicken shit. Chicken fucking shit. Whenever you take a sets of quotes totally out of context from someone to defame his character, you try to engage in a flame war. Typical passively aggressive coward. I don't engage in flame war unless if it is self defense against assholes like you.

On a more general note, in response to my own supposed Lawful Evilness. I disagree. In fact, I like to think that I am CG myself, or at least chaotic neutral.

completely bullshit. In the thread "US Citizen Held for Military Tribunal", you first establish your arguement by saying it is unconstitutional. That is not chaotic good. You never here me say that is illegal or that is unconstitutional. Laws don't mean anything to me. Law is cold blooded and doesn't discriminate case by case basis. My response in that thread would have been completely different if Jose Padilla is a innocent looking school teacher, married, and father of three. But that guy is thug in and out of jail and converted to the evil Islam. He tries to kill thousands of innocent civlilians but you defended him. If that is not lawful evil I don't know what is. As I said before, not every policy in US is constitutional. If everything has to be constituional you can't get anything done.

Laws or constitutions or whatever don't imply common sense, because all laws are up for interpretation. It is all about which way you twist the law. Those terrorist bastards will not be allowed hide behind the laws and use our own laws against us. Military tribunal is proper course of action. If our government has evidence to nail him, I trust our government.

Joeman, the Bill of Rights isn't bequeathing rights to us. Government doesn't have the power to do such a thing. The rights listed (and it is not an exhaustive list) are rights we have simply as human beings. By being born into this world, we are entitled to them, if we're born in the US or if we're born in some backwater South African farm.

So? What does this have anything to do with anything? Are you saying Americans are morally superior than South Africans? or ethically more advanced? Anyone who says that is racist. Every Americans I talked to who has lived in Africa have told me the assholes per nice people ratio in US is much higher than Africa. Africans don't need bill of rights to tell them how to treat others as human beings. It comes from their hearts.

Furthermore, i don't think that anyone thinks that they're evil. No one wakes up and says "I'm evil, yay, yay, yay!". Everyone thinks that they're doing the right thing, whether they're going about it the right way, or the wrong way is a matter of their moral compass, not what they say to themselves in the mirror every morning.

nice written excuses for yourself.

 

[Riomacleod]

So? What does this have anything to do with anything? Are you saying Americans are morally superior than South Africans? or ethically more advanced? Anyone who says that is racist. Every Americans I talked to who has lived in Africa have told me the assholes per nice people ratio in US is much higher than Africa. Africans don't need bill of rights to tell them how to treat others as human beings. It comes from their hearts.

I never said any such thing. My point being is that there are natural rights which exist. My reference to the constitution and bill of rights (again) was because I knew where I was taking my quotes from, and felt obligated to once again try to explain that you suggest that the government should have free reign on anyone for any reason. basically, what I read in your post is that we exist by the good graces of our government, and that we ought to be subervient to it.

The nature of the "chaos" mentality in D&D isn't that laws are bullshit, but that the government exists to serve the people. That is their sole obligation, and there are legitimate and illegitimate ways of going about this, and pushing over the natural rights of its citizens is not the way to do such a thing.

Of course, the lawful evil mentality is that laws apply to everyone differently. it is that government should have free reign to do what they will to their citizens. It is that rights are handed down by the state, and are little more than privliges which are granted only by the compassion of the ruling class and their enlightenment.

 

[Xev]

Rio:

I don't think I could make up a more lawful evil set of quotations.

Actually, I think that Joeman's response is rather chaotic good. Think about it....

Joeman advocates ignoring the law of the land, the Constitution, in order to protect innocent people.

In other words, he values protecting the lives of others over adherence to the law.

He says what he feels about Islam as well, not paying attention to the current PC atmosphere. Whether he is right or wrong is a thread for religion. That he has the balls to say it is relevent here.

Sounds like chaotic good to me, and I've never played D and D.

 

[Joeman]

Originally posted by Riomacleod

I never said any such thing. My point being is that there are natural rights which exist. My reference to the constitution and bill of rights (again) was because I knew where I was taking my quotes from, and felt obligated to once again try to explain that you suggest that the government should have free reign on anyone for any reason.

No. That is not what I suggest. This is the difference between you and me. You said the government should do this and that. There ought to be this natural right or whatever. I don't really care. I don't get too hung up on the ideology. I look at things case by case basis. In another thread I have shown a lot of compassion for that stupid kid who blew up mailboxes to tell people the government is evil. I have less sympathy for the guy trying to make dirty bomb. If you think the government should work for the people, you are delusional. People in the government work for themselves. That is the how things will always be. If they don't look like they are working for people, they could get fired. I don't expect the government to work for people. Ideology is pointless.

What I believe is solving one problem one at a time. Social security is going broke, lets fix it. Economy is bad, lets fix it. Terrorists want to kill us, stop them. Politicians work for special interest, lets introduce a campaign finance reform bill. Lawful evil people will object and say "Hey that is not constitutional". In that case, FUCK THE US CONSTITUTIONS!!!!!!!

The nature of the "chaos" mentality in D&D isn't that laws are bullshit, but that the government exists to serve the people. That is their sole obligation, and there are legitimate and illegitimate ways of going about this, and pushing over the natural rights of its citizens is not the way to do such a thing.

Of course, the lawful evil mentality is that laws apply to everyone differently. it is that government should have free reign to do what they will to their citizens. It is that rights are handed down by the state, and are little more than privliges which are granted only by the compassion of the ruling class and their enlightenment.

I don't think so, but I have a lot of no interest to debate definitions of D&D alignment at this moment. I do think you have lawful evil mentality wrong. Lawful evil mentality means someone is evil and uses to law to achieve or protect their evil agenda. An example is the movie studio trying to use the first amendment right to market sex and violance to children below 18.

 

[Adam]

Please start another thread to discuss D&D. I want to know where you all got your personal ethics.

 

[A4Ever]

Chicken shit. Chicken fucking shit. Whenever you take a sets of quotes totally out of context from someone to defame his character, you try to engage in a flame war.

It's not important that they are out of context. They don't mean the opposite now of what you meant in the thread, so it are good examples of the way you think.

You had to use 'sh*t' and 'f*ck' to prove him wrong, which is really proving him right.

 

[Xev]

A4:

It's not important that they are out of context. They don't mean the opposite now of what you meant in the thread, so it are good examples of the way you think.

Who asked you, hmm? Whatever you have against Joeman, nobody asked you to gang up on him, you pathetic little coward.

You had to use 'sh*t' and 'f*ck' to prove him wrong, which is really proving him right.

Perhaps if you did a little more of both you would not be such a whiney little bitch, hmmm?