"eMANgelization" of the Catholic Church

Bells

Bells

Staff member
Yes, that's right, "eMANgelization"..

What does that mean, you might ask? Well..

To answer that, one has to go to the website.. A site designed to attract men to the Catholic Church, or more to the point, to attract men to the priesthood.. And what a site it is. I first came across this site after reading an article about American Cardinal Raymond Burke. Cardinal Burke is worried that feminists and their influence on the Church have driven away "manly" men and instead, left it with nothing more than, well, feminised men who are apparently the type to either be gay or paedophiles or who are the type of men who masturbate. Cardinal Burke is also against masturbation, you see. But most of all, he is angry about feminists.

In a recent interview with The New Emangelization Project, a website dedicated to attracting men to the church, Burke focused his attention on the “radical” feminists whom he believes have disrupted catholicism, blaming them for the prevalence of priests molesting children.

Burke charged the feminist movement with commandeering the church and forcing leaders to “constantly address women’s issues at the expense of addressing critical issues important to men,” and said that it was “feminization” that led some priests to sexually abuse children:

The Church becomes very feminized. Women are wonderful, of course. They respond very naturally to the invitation to be active in the Church. Apart from the priest, the sanctuary has become full of women. The activities in the parish and even the liturgy have been influenced by women and have become so feminine in many places that men do not want to get involved. [...]

We can also see that our seminaries are beginning to attract many strong young men who desire to serve God as priests. The new crop of young men are manly and confident about their identity. This is a welcome development, for there was a period of time when men who were feminized and confused about their own sexual identity had entered the priesthood; sadly some of these disordered men sexually abused minors; a terrible tragedy for which the Church mourns.​

Sooo.. Women are to blame for paedophile priests raping children.. Oookay then.. I clicked on the link and.. well... Cardinal Burke has some issues. Okay, a lot of issues.

But the website itself..

Designed specifically to draw men, and repel women, and as they keep reminding readers, they are looking for "manly" men, the website is a wonder to behold. At first, I thought it was satirical. Because surely, this has to be a joke, I thought to myself as I clicked on the menu tab titled "Perfect Manhood of Jesus".. And was flooded with choice words about how the manhood of Jesus (figuratively I hope... but really) is perfect. A joke?

No, this is a serious website. The menu option in their 'About' menu offered interesting descriptions of the organisation and what they are about:

Clicking on Matthew Christoff's link:

The New Emangelization Project urgency is driven by this idea: There can be no New Evangelization without a New Emangelization, creating generations of Catholic men who are on fire for Jesus Christ and His Holy Catholic Church.

Matthew is also one of the co-founders of CatholicManNight.com, a parish-based Catholic men’s evangelization effort that is focused on meeting and knowing Jesus Christ in Eucharistic Adoration, Confession, table fellowship and discussion. In addition, Matthew evangelizes through AwedByJesusChrist.com, a website dedicated to helping people meet and be awed by Jesus Christ.

​
Aside from sounding like a priest themed gay male strip club, you have to wonder at the terminology used by this site to supposedly draw men in, well, "manly men" in to the Church. And the emphasis on the "manly" man is strong throughout this site. And emphasised in his spiel against women and feminists. The battle lines are being drawn. Women are killing the Church and the fallout from that is apparently men turning to rape children as their manliness is stomped on by the women filled Churches, not allowing men to fulfill their needs as God intends..

There are so many things wrong with that site, that I wouldn't even know where to begin. But what it clearly points out is that the Church has a very long way to go with women, gays and their rights. By placing the blame for priests raping and abusing children on women, they are once again trying to absolve themselves of all responsibility for their having coveted and protected priests who have committed such heinous crimes in the past and present.

Senior Cardinals being interviewed or giving time to such sites clearly shows that the Church itself has such a long way to go that I doubt they will ever actually dig themselves out of the dark ages. And if such sites are popping up across the internet trying to draw male readers to the Church, then it is clear they have no intention of changing their stupid ideology and are instead, more interested in protecting the inherent blame game, sexism, paedophilia and abuse of homosexuals. While yes, I did laugh at this site, I cannot find myself laughing at the depravity this site is trying to protect within the Church. It only means the cycle will just keep going..
 
Bells said:
Yes, that's right, "eMANgelization"..

What does that mean, you might ask? Well..

To answer that, one has to go to the website.. A site designed to attract men to the Catholic Church, or more to the point, to attract men to the priesthood.. And what a site it is. I first came across this site after reading an article about American Cardinal Raymond Burke. Cardinal Burke is worried that feminists and their influence on the Church have driven away "manly" men and instead, left it with nothing more than, well, feminised men who are apparently the type to either be gay or paedophiles or who are the type of men who masturbate. Cardinal Burke is also against masturbation, you see. But most of all, he is angry about feminists.

In a recent interview with The New Emangelization Project, a website dedicated to attracting men to the church, Burke focused his attention on the “radical” feminists whom he believes have disrupted catholicism, blaming them for the prevalence of priests molesting children.

Burke charged the feminist movement with commandeering the church and forcing leaders to “constantly address women’s issues at the expense of addressing critical issues important to men,” and said that it was “feminization” that led some priests to sexually abuse children:

The Church becomes very feminized. Women are wonderful, of course. They respond very naturally to the invitation to be active in the Church. Apart from the priest, the sanctuary has become full of women. The activities in the parish and even the liturgy have been influenced by women and have become so feminine in many places that men do not want to get involved. [...]

We can also see that our seminaries are beginning to attract many strong young men who desire to serve God as priests. The new crop of young men are manly and confident about their identity. This is a welcome development, for there was a period of time when men who were feminized and confused about their own sexual identity had entered the priesthood; sadly some of these disordered men sexually abused minors; a terrible tragedy for which the Church mourns.​

Sooo.. Women are to blame for paedophile priests raping children.. Oookay then.. I clicked on the link and.. well... Cardinal Burke has some issues. Okay, a lot of issues.

But the website itself..

Designed specifically to draw men, and repel women, and as they keep reminding readers, they are looking for "manly" men, the website is a wonder to behold. At first, I thought it was satirical. Because surely, this has to be a joke, I thought to myself as I clicked on the menu tab titled "Perfect Manhood of Jesus".. And was flooded with choice words about how the manhood of Jesus (figuratively I hope... but really) is perfect. A joke?

No, this is a serious website. The menu option in their 'About' menu offered interesting descriptions of the organisation and what they are about:

Clicking on Matthew Christoff's link:

The New Emangelization Project urgency is driven by this idea: There can be no New Evangelization without a New Emangelization, creating generations of Catholic men who are on fire for Jesus Christ and His Holy Catholic Church.

Matthew is also one of the co-founders of CatholicManNight.com, a parish-based Catholic men’s evangelization effort that is focused on meeting and knowing Jesus Christ in Eucharistic Adoration, Confession, table fellowship and discussion. In addition, Matthew evangelizes through AwedByJesusChrist.com, a website dedicated to helping people meet and be awed by Jesus Christ.

​
Aside from sounding like a priest themed gay male strip club, you have to wonder at the terminology used by this site to supposedly draw men in, well, "manly men" in to the Church. And the emphasis on the "manly" man is strong throughout this site. And emphasised in his spiel against women and feminists. The battle lines are being drawn. Women are killing the Church and the fallout from that is apparently men turning to rape children as their manliness is stomped on by the women filled Churches, not allowing men to fulfill their needs as God intends..

There are so many things wrong with that site, that I wouldn't even know where to begin. But what it clearly points out is that the Church has a very long way to go with women, gays and their rights. By placing the blame for priests raping and abusing children on women, they are once again trying to absolve themselves of all responsibility for their having coveted and protected priests who have committed such heinous crimes in the past and present.

Senior Cardinals being interviewed or giving time to such sites clearly shows that the Church itself has such a long way to go that I doubt they will ever actually dig themselves out of the dark ages. And if such sites are popping up across the internet trying to draw male readers to the Church, then it is clear they have no intention of changing their stupid ideology and are instead, more interested in protecting the inherent blame game, sexism, paedophilia and abuse of homosexuals. While yes, I did laugh at this site, I cannot find myself laughing at the depravity this site is trying to protect within the Church. It only means the cycle will just keep going..
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Well, he's not called Cardinal "Burke" for nothing, it seems:smile:.

But this just illustrates the way the church has got its whole attitude to sexual morality twisted out of recognition. St Paul has a lot to answer for. I think what they need is (a) women priests and (b) married priests. That would let the light of normality in and a lot of this damaging nonsense would come to a stop.
 
Perhaps the good Cardinal is wellwisher's brother from another mother?
 
Quite amazing.
I've been checking to see if he has been misreported,
but it seems that these really are his views.

Burke wanted to be Pope.
He was on the short list.
A fortunate escape for the world's 1.2 Billion Catholics, half of them non-men, and many of them children.
 
exchemist said:
Well, he's not called Cardinal "Burke" for nothing, it seems:smile:.
Click to expand...

Heh.

People have proposed an end to celibacy before: while one has a certain admiration for tradition, it doesn't seem to be working out, or at least in the media.

Edit.... I was about to expound further on that, but then I noticed what I'd written and it occurred to me that I didn't actually know what the sexual abuse rate by Catholic priests - which the above is in reference of, directly and indirectly - was. Is it higher or lower than the rest of the population? I looked it up. Apparently... it's the same. According to this source:

Notwithstanding the media hysteria over sex abuse in the Catholic Church, priests abuse at a rate far lower than that of other males. While even one case of abuse is too many, approximately only 4% of all active priests between 1950 and 2002 were even accused of abuse – a rate far lower than that of other males in the general population.

Newsweek magazine, April 7, 2010:

"ased on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. 'We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else,' said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children …

"Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. Margaret Leland Smith, a researcher at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says her review of the numbers indicates it’s closer to one in 5 …

"Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations … It's been that way for decades."​


USA Today, June 6, 2010:

"If anyone believes that priests offend at a higher rate than teachers or non-celibate clergy, then they should produce the evidence on which they are basing that conclusion. I know of none. Saying 'everybody knows' does not constitute scientific methodology."
– Dr. Philip Jenkins, Pennsylvania State University.

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/​
Click to expand...

​

Now, The Media Report appears to be from its front page a retailer ('apologist' or 'debunker', take your pick) for the support of the Catholic institution against claims of sexual misconduct - or against the preponderance thereof, take your pick. One does hear a lot about this, but it has to be said most often as a kind of assertion for the purposes of humour or denigration - again, take your pick, and some of you will. The insurance comment is suggestive, certainly: hard dollars matter most in this society, and is related to why the Bermuda Triangle is bunk.

I'll drop to Wikipedia since I should be getting on with other things:

In a statement read out by Archbishop Silvano Maria Tomasi in September 2009, the Holy See stated "We know now that in the last 50 years somewhere between 1.5% and 5% of the Catholic clergy has been involved in sexual abuse cases", adding that this figure was comparable with that of other groups and denominations.[4]

A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse by Catholic Dr. Thomas Plante of the Catholic Santa Clara University and volunteer clinical associate professor at Stanford University states that "approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor" which "is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population which may double these numbers".[5][6] Additionally, according to an article written by a journalist and published in Newsweek magazine, the figure in the Catholic Church is similar to that in the rest of the adult population.[7] The article is based upon a study done by John Jay College which reported the approximately 4% of clergy have abused...was compiled solely from numbers provided by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, leaders of the same institution which paid John Jay College to do the study.[8]

By contrast Barbara Blaine, of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP), stated, "We are confident that the ICC will see sufficient evidence that high ranking Catholic officials are still knowingly enabling predators to harm and endanger children across the world, while concealing these heinous crimes even more effectively.”" The ICC referred to the International Criminal Court.[9][10] SNAP representatives note there are more Catholics in the Third World where child molestation is more easily concealed and feel a need to guard against “the tempting assumption that the worst of this scandal is somehow behind us.” [10]
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The latter point is, IMHO, unassailable: the institution protects rapists. That is an inexcusable institutional ill. Inexcusable. I am certain that any other given organisation would have a better rate of compliance, prosecution and expulsion of those found guilty of abuse, and less protectionism. I imagine some in the See feel bound by their mandate: are they not the inerrant word of God? Disgusting childishness. Now, this might also affect reporting rate, but even at a doubling it's not clear that the rate would actually be higher than the general population, according to their numbers, and which is probably also underreported. I've attached other commentaries that seem to be in the same vein: it would benefit the critique of the organisation to have established numbers for comparison. It is also conceivable that those articles were written by apologists.

http://www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-06-07-column07_ST_N.htm

It is also obviously unquestionable that Catholicism is inherently - doctrinally - hostile to female ordination and, as was seen only a scant two or three hundred years ago, placing the blame where it assuredly does not belong. For an organisation that prides itself on the collection of information, it seems to have poorly synthesized it.

In summary: What a joke. Ridiculous. Monkeys throwing shit out a zoo cage would nearly be a more accurate social commentary, because at least some of that might land where blame ought to be assigned.
 
I wonder whether Burke is getting any support for this nonsense?
It sounds like he has been writing while drinking some of his Christmas presents.
 
exchemist said:
Well, he's not called Cardinal "Burke" for nothing, it seems:smile:.

But this just illustrates the way the church has got its whole attitude to sexual morality twisted out of recognition. St Paul has a lot to answer for. I think what they need is (a) women priests and (b) married priests. That would let the light of normality in and a lot of this damaging nonsense would come to a stop.
Click to expand...
I don't think female priests and allowing priests to marry will save them at this point.

They have dug themselves in quite deep and they are not going to relent. Priests who abuse have been protected for decades. They have been shifted around, even moved to the Vatican to escape prosecution.

Their views of women is also well known. From their protests and threats to third world countries about the use of contraception, to the secondary role women have always played within the organisation.. But this is taking it up a notch.

You have to wonder who else within the hierarchy of the Church shares his views that women, primarily feminists, are to blame for priests raping children because women's influence in the Church has made the men in the Church less manly. It is an astounding and frankly moronic accusation to make.

And I have to say, clicking on the links from that site has taken me to places I did not want to know about. There is this push to radical forms of belief and all focused on what it takes to be a real man, or as they keep reiterating, "manly" man. While Burke's interview was to whine about women's rights, with quite a bit of focus into how bad it is for men that women are now marrying and *gasp* demanding rights *gasp*, a lot of these other sites are more focused into the "MAN"..
 
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This website has chosen a great photo to go with its article.

Cardinal Raymond Burke: Catholic Church is too feminine
A 'feminized' Church and altar girls caused the priest shortage, prelate says

Cardinal-Burke-Church-Feminine-C-717x450.jpg


http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/...hurch-and-altar-girls-caused-priest-shortage/

Nice one. Heh Heh:biggrin:
 
Bells said:
I don't think female priests and allowing priests to marry will save them at this point.

They have dug themselves in quite deep and they are not going to relent. Priests who abuse have been protected for decades. They have been shifted around, even moved to the Vatican to escape prosecution.

Their views of women is also well known. From their protests and threats to third world countries about the use of contraception, to the secondary role women have always played within the organisation.. But this is taking it up a notch.

You have to wonder who else within the hierarchy of the Church shares his views that women, primarily feminists, are to blame for priests raping children because women's influence in the Church has made the men in the Church less manly. It is an astounding and frankly moronic accusation to make.

And I have to say, clicking on the links from that site has taken me to places I did not want to know about. There is this push to radical forms of belief and all focused on what it takes to be a real man, or as they keep reiterating, "manly" man. While Burke's interview was to whine about women's rights, with quite a bit of focus into how bad it is for men that women are now marrying and *gasp* demanding rights *gasp*, a lot of these other sites are more focused into the "MAN"..
Click to expand...

Bells I'm not surprised this makes you angry. It makes me angry too. But don't imagine Burke speaks for the church. The Catholic Church has lasted 2000 years and is not going to disappear overnight. What you see looks to me like a man of particularly antediluvian views in a moral panic. There are plenty of priests and bishops in the church who would not go along with this idiocy. But there will be a long struggle between the people like Burke and the progressives. In the end, priestly celibacy and the non-ordination of women are traditions, nothing more. They can be overturned when the consensus accepts it. (Burke, I see, was demoted in November last year, so his star is not in the ascendant under the current pope. I do not for a second think that Francis thinks like Burke on this subject.) My view is that the shortage of priestly vocations in the Western world will eventually force the issue. But it may take another half century or so, so I don't expect to live to see it.
 
exchemist said:
Bells I'm not surprised this makes you angry. It makes me angry too. But don't imagine Burke speaks for the church. The Catholic Church has lasted 2000 years and is not going to disappear overnight. What you see looks to me like a man of particularly antediluvian views in a moral panic. There are plenty of priests and bishops in the church who would not go along with this idiocy. But there will be a long struggle between the people like Burke and the progressives. In the end, priestly celibacy and the non-ordination of women are traditions, nothing more. They can be overturned when the consensus accepts it. (Burke, I see, was demoted in November last year, so his star is not in the ascendant under the current pope. I do not for a second think that Francis thinks like Burke on this subject.) My view is that the shortage of priestly vocations in the Western world will eventually force the issue. But it may take another half century or so, so I don't expect to live to see it.
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But they aren't denouncing it.

There is absolute silence.

He was not demoted because of his offensive views. He was demoted because he criticised the Pope.

Having read through the links connected to the one in the OP, it appears to be a whole movement. And as much as I do laugh at the terminology used in the "eMANgelization" website because, to be honest, it is decidedly camp, I also recognise it for what it is. While the wording is camp, the message is decidedly homophobic. And these sites are misogynistic.

There has been a constant lack of taking responsibility within the organisation. The denials, the lies and the manner in which they have had to be dragged kicking and screaming to even admit that some of the clergy were abusing children and they are still trying to sweep it under the rug in the hope that no one notices. Burke blaming women and the role of women in the Church is yet another way to avoid taking responsibility for the role of the Church in fostering and protecting those who did abuse. And he is expressing these views without sanction.
 
Regarding those claiming the end of Catholicism: those who blame the religion for the ills of its organisations share that blame, or so I'm told. Goose, gander.
 
cosmictraveler said:
Religion: Isn't it just wonderful.
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Is it though?

Catholicism is unique in that its leadership is so well defined. And they all remain silent.

Look at the recent act of terrorism in Paris. Imams around the world are condemning it. While the two cannot be compared, obviously, there is still that element of religious leaders denouncing the bad. Look at Judaism and when some Rabbi's decided to declare that it was acceptable to murder non-Jews. Jewish leaders rose and spoke against it. With the Church, you get absolute silence. So they either ignore it and hope it will go away, or it is just the way things are. Or alternatively, they throw a lot of money at abuse victims and hope they will just disappear. I am yet to hear a single priest, bishop, cardinal or pope declare that Burke and his ilk are not Catholic and do not represent or speak for their religion. Instead, we get silence..

You see it Judaism, Islam, when people from those religions do evil deeds in the name of their religion. Religious leaders speak out, denounce the individual. Not so with the Church. With the Church, they protect, foster and defend the indefensible and at times, they even promote, such as in the case of Cardinal Pell. If anyone should have been excommunicated, it was the then Archbishop Pell, who went out of his way to protect a paedophile within the Church. He moved him around and when the authorities finally caught up with him, he defended him, walked with him to court, threatened other priests who testified against him (including the parish priest of my parents church, who disappeared and was moved to another parish after he testified against Pell's little child raping buddy).. Pell also had hints and accusations that he may have abused in the past. He was promoted within the ranks of the Church and made a Cardinal and then made a mockery of a commission in Melbourne, to investigate what the Church knew about abusive priest. Pell defended the Church's refusal to hand over the documents and protected the Church and its coffers. Not a single religious leader within the Church came out and denounced him.
 
The Catholic Church is at the frustration stage of the change curve.
If you place the shock stage in the 1980's it has taken 30 years to get to get to this point.
Next stage is depression, in 2030-2050 at the current rate.
If you take the depression stage as full admission of guilt, accepting some kind of punishment, and resolving to do better, the Church has a long way to go before it begins to improve.
By that time, will many people care?
kubler-ross-change-curve.png
 
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They are going through the same process as a person who has committed some evil crime,
and doesn't want to comprehend what they have done.
"Crime and Punishment " rewritten.
 
The self-centredness, the rationalizations, the excuses, the lack of any sense of the depth of the evils they have condoned and perpetrated.
It is an interesting display of human psychology.
Like the King in the children's tale, they are now naked to everyone's eyes,
but haven't looked in the mirror yet.
 
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