Electric cars vs fossil fuel cars

[Luchito]

Yes, he just gave the rich a tax-cut and raised taxes on the poor. Besides he took a whole bunch of jobs out of the economy, only to replace them with jobs we haven't figured out yet like renewable resources.
Ain't that a shame!

Lucito, you are one strange dude!

More and more cities are trashing recyclable material rather than processing it to be used again. The demand has lowered a lot because the results are not the expected after all.

You can buy your electric car, of course, and just wait for it to have an issue, like any machine after being used. So far, before buying an electric car ask how much will cost a repair of the electric system right after the warranty expires. How much will be the depreciation of the car with the years and how available will be to find mechanics to do the repairs or the change of the entire system after failure.

I guess insurance companies will act by their own in a near future when these electric cars start to fail and have accidents. So far, the whole situation still is in the limbo. And the reason is because the technology in electric cars might be outstanding, but the service and repairs side is against the buyer of these cars.

Amazingly, this is also happening with gasoline cars, when in some models you just can't replace the battery without doing a programming, and this programming can be made solely in dealer service places. In other words, the more technology added to cars is going against the consumer by making him 100% dependant of the manufacturer after the car comes out of the dealer. I have heard Joe will do something about it, but so far no signals of discussion to make a law is at the horizon.

I think you have not taken in consideration the consequences of such renewable sources for the goods of the future, but so far the big companies are gaining power in controlling what the consumer is doing with their sold products. I remember trying to buy a Dodge truck and the dealer added $7,000 because the truck was to be sold solely with the aftermarket installation of GPS tracing installed in it. I was told such installation will lower my insurance premium but I told the seller hell with the premium cost, I want my privacy over all the technology they want to insert in that truck.

Someone else bought the truck under those dealer terms, but I didn't. I went to another brand dealer.

Funny thing, on eBay it is sold a tiny antenna with the cost of $7 and is installed in your 12v plug. It is funny, You use your phone GPS and it shows you your location is somewhere other than your current location. No GPS can trace you, lol. A Chinese $7 antenna can beat the thousands dollars technology input in your car, ha ha ha ha... Luckily I didn't need president Trump neither Joe "to protect myself against GPS tracing" ha ha ha ha...

Point is, that you must review again the pros and cons of the new so called improvements and changes made for new products sold in the market, because there are lots of hidden tramps which are against the consumer and on the other hand are favouring in an unbalanced way the producers by given them power outside their legal jurisdictions.

I'm not against the idea of inventing new technologies challenging the traditional ones, but laws must be made to protect the consumer. And here is when your post fails, when you have not considered this point at all.

 

[Write4U]

I'm not against the idea of inventing new technologies challenging the traditional ones, but laws must be made to protect the consumer. And here is when your post fails, when you have not considered this point at all.

I see. How about making laws that protect my representative in congress when they vote for economic stimulus that will provide good paying jobs and get threatened with death for their good effort.

 

[billvon]

You can buy your electric car, of course, and just wait for it to have an issue, like any machine after being used. So far, before buying an electric car ask how much will cost a repair of the electric system right after the warranty expires.

An even better question is - how much service will it need? And the answer is - about three times less. No oil changes. No engine tuneups. No filter changes. Far less replacement of brake pads. No finicky valvetrains or transmissions. That's why EV's are far cheaper to own than gas powered cars.

How much will be the depreciation of the car with the years

An average car loses about 50% of its value after 3 years. A Tesla Model 3 (the cheap one) loses 10%.

Which one would you rather own?

I guess insurance companies will act by their own in a near future when these electric cars start to fail and have accidents.

They will indeed. And when EV's fail and have accidents less often than other vehicles, then EV rates will go down.

I have heard Joe will do something about it, but so far no signals of discussion to make a law is at the horizon.

He signed an executive order telling the FTC to prioritize the Right to Repair, and a bill is currently in Congress making it a law.

 

[Luchito]

An even better question is - how much service will it need? And the answer is - about three times less. No oil changes. No engine tuneups. No filter changes. Far less replacement of brake pads. No finicky valvetrains or transmissions. That's why EV's are far cheaper to own than gas powered cars.

A single resistor going bad in a Tesla might cause the changing of the entire bottom circuit of the vehicle, if you don't know. No repairs in that car but the need to change the whole circuit. And wait for changing the battery(ies), Be ready to ask for a loan at the bank.

An average car loses about 50% of its value after 3 years. A Tesla Model 3 (the cheap one) loses 10%.

50%! you said 50% depreciation in an "average car!" ha ha ha ha.... excuse me but... ha ha ha ha...

You are just incredible... 50% depreciat... ha ha ha ha... in an average ca...ha ha ha ha...

Seriously, you don't drive right?

Let me see, I have owned abut 9 new cars thru the years and I own two today.

Only Kia and Hyundai cars suffer great depreciation for some reason. Well Hyundai are fine and Kia are just cheap and I won't recommend it at all. Ford and other American cars also suffer some higher depreciation than Volvo, Mercedes, BMW etc, but no car suffers 50% from a year to another.

Which one would you rather own?

Gasoline or diesel car. I love putting my hands on cars. I just bought a new 2021 sedan and I have already modified the rear bumper, the fake side vents are now real, painted a solid colour the addition to the bumper, make a wider area for installing a wider exhaust tip, and right now without the electrical blueprints I am on my way to disconnect the original daylight circuit and reinstalled it on a new fixture in a different area. I am also with plans to remove the plastic grille decoration and install a metal hexagonal screen mesh.

You see, to me buying a car is like buying a house, When you buy a house you change the carpet by wood floor, you change the kitchen cabinets, etc. Same as well I change my cars to fit my taste, and my comfort. By the way, I have prepared the materials needed to add cameras to be installed on the side mirrors and connected to a new rear view mirror with wide 7" video screen. The cameras will be controlled with a new switch to be installed in the steering wheel.

I have been inside a new electric car already, and I don't like it at all. You just can't add new features to it. You are to be prisoner of the original wishes of the designer. I don't like that, I love expressing myself doing new things to my cars. I am not against the electrical car but I strongly think their price should be 50% lesser because it has no personality, it's just a moving robot....

They will indeed. And when EV's fail and have accidents less often than other vehicles, then EV rates will go down.

I have no idea what world you live in, but accidents are in most cases caused by drivers not by faults in vehicles. Point is that at every "total" after an electric car crashes, replacing the whole bottom circuit is half the price of the car. Insurance companies are to lose lots of money with electric cars after accidents.

He signed an executive order telling the FTC to prioritize the Right to Repair, and a bill is currently in Congress making it a law.

Hope the law becomes reality, and with gas and electric vehicles to be mandatory in having the service repair books available right away, like the software found in a dealer service shop. Better to pay one price like straight $900 for it rather than monthly or year subscription and be conditioned to the criteria of the website for you to reach fast the page you re looking for.

With my former 2013 car, it took me two years waiting for such software to be available online, two years was too much. I started working with that car after 6 months just using acquired knowledge from my former cars repairs and modifications. Because when you are not very familiar with the new car one must be very careful specially in areas like air bags. With your electric cars you must disconnect the main connections you alone, and one cable at the time and sealing it as soon you remove it. If two persons do the work at the same time one on the other side of the another, just touching the body of the car might kill both. I'm not too much in car electronics, the far I went was to install GPS and CD players with DVD screen in mu=y older model cars, Tesla is mostly electronics, and I prefer a wrench over a soldering gun.

Besides the right to repair, car companies must make essential parts repairable and replaceable without many inconveniences. Like to say, the car owner not to be obligated to buy the whole headlight assembly just because one bulb in the fixture is sealed and the bulb can't be replaced but the whole fixture.

You see, I have no idea how far that law will expand to protect the consumer, but Joe should have consulted with me first before sending his bill to Congress... ha ha ha ha.

 

[Write4U]

Besides the right to repair, car companies must make essential parts repairable and replaceable without many inconveniences. Like to say, the car owner not to be obligated to buy the whole headlight assembly just because one bulb in the fixture is sealed and the bulb can't be replaced but the whole fixture.

What you seem to overlook is that in + 40 years gasoline-powered cars will be rare. Gasoline will be rare,

Kinda like horse-powered buggies are rare today.

Countdown to the end of Oil: 15,183 Days to the end of oil (~42 years)

Assumption: If consumed at current rates*

Sources and info:

• World Proved Reserves of Oil and Natural Gas, Most Recent Estimates - Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Data from BP Statistical Review, Oil & Gas Journal, World Oil, BP Statistical Review, CEDIGAZ, and Oil & Gas Journal.

* Population growth; 71,440,761 net population growth this year

 

[Luchito]

What you seem to overlook is that in + 40 years gasoline-powered cars will be rare. Gasoline will be rare,

Kinda like horse-powered buggies are rare today.

Countdown to the end of Oil: 15,183 Days to the end of oil (~42 years)

Assumption: If consumed at current rates*

Sources and info:

• World Proved Reserves of Oil and Natural Gas, Most Recent Estimates - Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Data from BP Statistical Review, Oil & Gas Journal, World Oil, BP Statistical Review, CEDIGAZ, and Oil & Gas Journal.

* Population growth; 71,440,761 net population growth this year

Here in the Washington DC area, I see the trains carrying more than 100 wagons sometimes, from which tens of them carry coal in each trip. Electricity can't be obtained from the Potomac and Anacostia rivers because these run almost at the sea level altitude and the inclination of falling carries not enough force. Then, electricity is obtained burning coal.

I might ask, for the next 42 years, how much coal will be available for supplying electricity to cities like Washington DC and surrounding cities in Maryland and Virginia? What about in all cities of the world dependent of coal to produce electricity?

Remember that if no coal is available then no electricity will be produced and electric cars won't run.

As a comedian I watched on TV asked... "and how do you think electricity is obtained... magic?"

 

[Write4U]

I might ask, for the next 42 years, how much coal will be available for supplying electricity to cities like Washington DC and surrounding cities in Maryland and Virginia? What about in all cities of the world dependent of coal to produce electricity?

What about the word "oil" do you not understand?

If you want to see the end of "coal" that can sustain us until we have renewable energy, such as solar, hydro, biochemical, nuclear, READ the link to Worldometer I have provided HERE.

4,300,576,846,277 Coal left (boe)
148,296 Days to the end of coal

https://www.worldometers.info/

But if you want to revert back to steam powered cars, buses, and trains, I wish you good luck.

 

[Luchito]

What about the word "oil" do you not understand?

If you want to see the end of "coal" that can sustain us until we have renewable energy, such as solar, hydro, biochemical, nuclear, READ the link to Worldometer I have provided HERE.


But if you want to revert back to steam powered cars, buses, and trains, I wish you good luck.

Lets do math, but not as absolute but as relative... (I love it... I truly love it)

You said

15,183 Days to the end of oil

148,296 Days to the end of coal

Wait! Wait!

You are counting the days of coal's end in reference of today's demand.

But if oil will be out in 42 years, in the process of its disappearance, the demand of burning coal will increase because no more gas cars means more electric cars, right?

Also, the current backup energy suppliers for buildings which work with diesel will become... "electric" "nuclear", solar?

No one will convince me in buying an electric car if the dealer doesn't supply a three miles extension cord for emergencies. Period.

Now well, how do you know oil will be gone in 42 years? Someone has sent a machine to survey down deep the oil wells in the world? Remember that before it was said the nucleus of earth was solid iron rock and today it is said is melted iron. And no one has really verified both versions, but are just conjectures. What about the amount of days predicted in your links? How those have been VERIFIED?

If the oil will go out in 42 years, then... what is the rush for me to stop driving a gasoline car today?

 

[Write4U]

If such is what is happening against a Democrat representative, I am with you and against the aggressor. I play no games when is about respecting the integrity of a person. If you read from me saying trash about someone, believe me I have a good background supporting my words.

How about death threats against Democrats and Republicans who voted with Democrats for the Infrastructure bill?
This country is rapidly devolving in anarchy. If you don't like someone, just kill 'emand claim self-defense.

 

[Write4U]

But if oil will be out in 42 years, in the process of its disappearance, the demand of burning coal will increase because no more gas cars means more electric cars, right?

Yes indeed. Moreover the world's population will grow exponentially also, requiring greater, not lesser supply. I addressed this by noting that all theses estimates are based on "current consumption", that will most assuredly increase over time. All the more reason to intensify research and development of Green renewable energy sources, no?

Also, the current backup energy suppliers for buildings which work with diesel will become... "electric" "nuclear", solar?

As you say "backup" systems are not in continuous use. And better batteries are efficient energy storage facilities. Old smelters are particularly suitable for bulk energy storage.

No one will convince me in buying an electric car if the dealer doesn't supply a three miles extension cord for emergencies. Period.

And that is why the new infrastructure bill has billions of dollars allocated for adding electric supply stations to existing gasoline stations. Just like many gas stations also have Propane gas filling stations.

Now well, how do you know oil will be gone in 42 years? Someone has sent a machine to survey down deep the oil wells in the world? Remember that before it was said the nucleus of earth was solid iron rock and today it is said is melted iron. And no one has really verified both versions, but are just conjectures. What about the amount of days predicted in your links? How those have been VERIFIED?

Don't you read any post by anyone except your "preferred anonymous" sources?
I gave you the info in post #74, but I'll do you another favor and repost it here;

Sources and info:

• World Proved Reserves of Oil and Natural Gas, Most Recent Estimates - Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Data from BP Statistical Review, Oil & Gas Journal, World Oil, BP Statistical Review, CEDIGAZ, and Oil & Gas Journal.

And if you neglect to read my posts again, I'll just put you on ignore. I love to exchange information, but I am not prepared to act as your teacher of "common knowledge"

• If the oil will go out in 42 years, then... what is the rush for me to stop driving a gasoline car today?

You think the gas supply will just stop in 42 yrs? Gasoline will become scarcer long before that happens and the price of gas will rise commensurate with available supply. Want to pay 10$ p/gallon?

p.s. All this knowledge is actually very simple but:

“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.”
That is the melodramatic opener in a lecture by University of Colorado physicist, Albert Bartlett. Feb 1, 2021

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2021/02/01/understand-exponential/

Lets do math, but not as absolute but as relative... (I love it... I truly love it)

Apparently you are not able to do the math, much as you love it.
Professor Emeritus Albert Bartlett knows how to do math and he explained the exponential function very clearly.

Divide the percentage of steady growth into 70 and you will get the "doubling time".
IOW, @ 1% growth pr/yr the starting amount will double in 70 yrs.
@ 2% growth the doubling time is 35 yrs, @ 7% growth the doubling time is 10 yrs.

That's why the world's population, which is growing @ 1% p/yr, will rise to 15.5 billion in 70 years (1 lifetime). Unless the growth rate drops to zero, there will always be an exponential increase in numbers. This is simple math. Try to get your head around that.

 

[billvon]

A single resistor going bad in a Tesla might cause the changing of the entire bottom circuit of the vehicle, if you don't know.

Of course. And a single bad valve in a Ford Excursion engine could require an entirely new engine.

50%! you said 50% depreciation in an "average car!" ha ha ha ha.... excuse me but... ha ha ha ha...

While you are laughing we will continue.

Gasoline or diesel car. I love putting my hands on cars.

Ah, so you prefer unreliable cars that break and need to be fixed. In that case, ICE cars might be ideal for you.

I have been inside a new electric car already, and I don't like it at all. You just can't add new features to it. You are to be prisoner of the original wishes of the designer.

?? I've added new lights, a sound system, an extended range battery and a tow hitch to my PHEV. You may not know how to do that; that's fine.

I have no idea what world you live in, but accidents are in most cases caused by drivers not by faults in vehicles.

Exactly. And on cars with autopilots (which currently are only Teslas) the accident rate goes down, since they are more reliable than human drivers.

With your electric cars you must disconnect the main connections you alone, and one cable at the time and sealing it as soon you remove it. If two persons do the work at the same time one on the other side of the another, just touching the body of the car might kill both.

If the HV system is opened up by an incompetent mechanic, and the safeties are defeated - yep.

Now imagine what will happen if that same incompetent mechanic is working under the car while smoking - and he accidentally cuts the fuel line.

 

[Luchito]

Of course. And a single bad valve in a Ford Excursion engine could require an entirely new engine.

Cost of average gas car $35,000, cost of the new engine $5,000, cost of replacement $2,000. Total repair $6,000.

Cost of cheaper electric car $35,000, cost of new base circuit $20,000, cost of replacement $4,000, Total repair $24,000

This is the price of your new technology when your electric car circuit fails. Good luck with that.

Ah, so you prefer unreliable cars that break and need to be fixed. In that case, ICE cars might be ideal for you.

Are you implying electric cars have never malfunction? Definitively you are out of contact with reality.

?? I've added new lights, a sound system, an extended range battery and a tow hitch to my PHEV. You may not know how to do that; that's fine.

I just don't add but I modify it.

Exactly. And on cars with autopilots (which currently are only Teslas) the accident rate goes down, since they are more reliable than human drivers.

An article posted very recently, November14, 2021

https:/www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-nhtsa-skeletons-roadside-deaths/

Tesla Autopilot’s emergency vehicle response feature is addressing a deadly problem no one wants to talk about.

If the HV system is opened up by an incompetent mechanic, and the safeties are defeated - yep.

Sure, and you have experts electric car mechanics at any gas station. Face it, if not the car dealer you won't find where to fix it, and car dealers will suck all your money. Just wait when you car starts to have issues, you will need a bank loan to pay for repairs.

Now imagine what will happen if that same incompetent mechanic is working under the car while smoking - and he accidentally cuts the fuel line.

You are going to extremes, I'm not imagining anything but check things according to reality.

And don't take me wrong, because choosing gas or electric car is just what your taste in driving is about, but you seem to take it as driving an electric car "to save the world"... and such is peanuts.

 

[billvon]

This is the price of your new technology when your electric car circuit fails. Good luck with that.

I am having very good luck with it, thanks, since "new base circuits" do not cost $20,000 - nor do they even exist. I suspect you just made that term up to have something to complain about.

So far I've had to fix three things on both my EV's. One was a rat chewing through a wiring harness. I got about a dozen error messages - inverter coolant fault, CAN bus fault, safety fault etc. Repaired the harness; done in two hours. Another was a bad door lock actuator. Got a spare for $180, installed it - took an hour. A third was a problem leveling the hatch in the rear. That one took about ten minutes.

Are you implying electric cars have never malfunction? Definitively you are out of contact with reality.

Of course not. They just malfunction much less often than regular gas cars. Fewer moving parts.

I just don't add but I modify it.

Me too. You just don't have the knowledge to do that to EV's. That's your fault, not the car's.

Sure, and you have experts electric car mechanics at any gas station. Face it, if not the car dealer you won't find where to fix it, and car dealers will suck all your money. Just wait when you car starts to have issues, you will need a bank loan to pay for repairs.

You sound like a guy back when cars were replacing horses.

"What if your car gets sick? Not going to get better on its own, is it? And what if you run out of gas? I can just graze my old Red by the side of the road. You'll be walking MILES! You're a fool to choose an unreliable mechanical contraption over a reliable horse."

And don't take me wrong, because choosing gas or electric car is just what your taste in driving is about, but you seem to take it as driving an electric car "to save the world"... and such is peanuts.

Never said that. You are just making shit up now.

 

[Sarkus]

Only Kia and Hyundai cars suffer great depreciation for some reason. Well Hyundai are fine and Kia are just cheap and I won't recommend it at all. Ford and other American cars also suffer some higher depreciation than Volvo, Mercedes, BMW etc, but no car suffers 50% from a year to another.

That wasn't the claim. Rather that the value had depreciated 50% after 3 years... so the value after 3 years compared to value as new.
There are some sites that can give you a reasonable idea of depreciation, and 50% isn't unusual after 3 years: https://www.themoneycalculator.com/vehicle-finance/calculators/car-depreciation-by-make-and-model/
40% would probably more reasonable to assume for most brands, though, from the link above, although some are 25%, or even lower.

Cost of average gas car $35,000, cost of the new engine $5,000, cost of replacement $2,000. Total repair $6,000.

Cost of cheaper electric car $35,000, cost of new base circuit $20,000, cost of replacement $4,000, Total repair $24,000

This is the price of your new technology when your electric car circuit fails. Good luck with that.

This is garbage analysis. The bulk of the cost of a USD35k car is not 20k for a "base circuit" - whatever that is. The main cost remains the battery, with the actual motor / drive train relatively cheap in comparison.
Further, your analysis completely ignores the likelihood of each. Will an EVs "base circuit" (again, what this actually is remains undefined) fail and need to be replaced as often as a combustion enging? Your analysis doesn't mention this, so is flawed.

And a minor point: 5k + 2k = 7k, not 6k.

 

[Write4U]

The bulk of the cost of a USD35k car is not 20k for a "base circuit" - whatever that is. The main cost remains the battery, with the actual motor / drive train relatively cheap in comparison.
Further, your analysis completely ignores the likelihood of each. Will an EVs "base circuit" (again, what this actually is remains undefined) fail and need to be replaced as often as a combustion enging?

Here is an authoritative analysis;

Electric Conversion
[quoteBasically, electric conversion involves removing the entire internal combustion engine from a vehicle, installing an electric motor in its place, and also adding a large bank of batteries. A conversion will cost you about $6000 in parts, and about $1000-$3000 for batteries and installation.[/quote]

But, for all this expense, you'll get a zero-emissions vehicle that costs only a few cents per mile to run. Your electric car will also be more reliable and require much less maintenance that a conventional one. Remember that gas-powered cars cost the owner about $1800 per year on average for fuel costs alone, and there is the addition expense of engine maintenance and oil changes.

Electric cars have a better resell values, and are more reliable overall because there are fewer parts to fail. Most of the components are solid-state electronics with no moving parts. The engine of an electric car has a virtually infinite lifespan — the components will probably outlast the chassis. The only real expense is the batteries, which will need to be replaced about every 3 to 4 years.

You can expect your converted vehicle to have a range of 60-80 miles, a top speed of 50-90 MPH, and good acceleration capabilities. It will take about 6-12 hours to completely recharge the car. All of these factors will vary, based on the weight of the car you convert, and the type of engine and batteries you install.

https://www.treehugger.com/converting-your-car-to-an-electric-vehicle-4858603

 

[RainbowSingularity]

trashing recyclable material

it helps to have a bit more specific information when it comes to this whole subject

"trashing" is far too vague
where is it going ?
what is being done to it ?

can it be recycled using less carbon & fossil fuels than it takes to produce new ?

The demand has lowered a lot because the results are not the expected after all.

demand for ?????

petrol & diesel cars are purchased by speculators
they speculate that they will be the most likely sale with the highest profit

that market wont change unless the government forces change

repair of the electric system right after the warranty expires

closed unit componentry is a huge issue
more complex demands more complex

the system of closed unit componentry was based on 2 things
1 endless ever increasing supply of raw materials
an ever increasing price value against inflation as a profit return

that system has now failed

depreciation

is irrelevant unless your a speculator trying to turn profit on the item
it is a tax game for profit
gaming the system to extract tax back instead of paying it forward
the claw back cycle is expensive & probably costs significant amount of wasted money

I guess insurance companies will act by their own in a near future

dont take this personally im not laughing at you
many people think the same

the insurance companys do for themselves as their #1 function
they have always done what they needed to be forced by their own choice to make profit
asserting a sense of critical punishment by regulatory financial control is basic insanity

but its the cool aid that most prefer

... most preferred lol

and have accidents

irrelevant

people drive cars
not corporate machines & speculation of insurance profit margins to loss costs

So far, the whole situation still is in the limbo

steaming great heap of shit is a more definitive description

everyone gaming everyone else from all angles to ensure it never happens because the profit margin of supply and demand is used as the core principal of over arching regulatory principals

And the reason is because the technology in electric cars might be outstanding, but the service and repairs side is against the buyer of these cars.

you wish to game the same system creating the problem to game it more to deliver an answer that will make it worse ?

the price must include the concept of running costs
otherwise someone else is paying for your car
super simple
if you want to beat down the price of repair. then you are trying to take profit margin away from the existing system
which you are using to run it
fail/fail does not = win

against the buyer of these cars.

do you mean "voter" or consumer making free will choices in an open market ?

programming

that boat got launched 2 years ago roughly
it is a slow sinking ship lol

that is why elon is building battery factories
because that is the ONLY way its going to happen unless god herself comes down and makes a wave of her magic wand

I have heard Joe will do something about it, but so far no signals of discussion to make a law is at the horizon.

no point in Joe making regulatory force to a sinking ship
it will only make it sink faster when he tries to push it faster to the other side

its a global issue for the species
advancing to electric

proprietory property rights
dealing franchises
android parts
android & genuine coding & items

what a F-cking nightmare

like apple & ibm
one would hope the lessons had been learnt by now
this is where china is likely to leap frog ahead all be it at a cost to the environment & lives as a collective choice
versus individual options to slowly do nothing as the system is gamed to death

hopefully elon keeps his wealth so he can be the leap frog science department to make the shift that governments & consumers simply cant do.

I think you have not taken in consideration the consequences of such renewable sources for the goods of the future, but so far the big companies are gaining power in controlling what the consumer is doing with their sold products.

excellent point
this is why i have been saying
recycle costs must be included in purchase price and taken out of the purchase price on the purchase
not chased with an open cheque book care of the working class poor tax

I'm not against the idea of inventing new technologies challenging the traditional ones, but laws must be made to protect the consumer.

new laws of protection(regulations) for highly regulated devices at high prices ...
with big money
is big regulation because everyone wants a piece of the money
so it ends up being a best mates buy out back door champagne party with corporates & politicians
when they are both profiting from the illusion.

irony calling
the rendering down of variety & competition to produce a safer cheaper item
backwards outsourcing of labor & tax ownership

i like your post
it has some good points
but the gap between what needs to be done & what is assumed to be the answer is vast among most
most politicians are not smarter with better more creative ideas than any other particular person
they are just better at playing the game

... the game as changed
the current game is a losing game
but it looks like no one is able or willing to change it

 

[Luchito]

I am passing by, because I am not in the mood of discussing what is obvious, electric cars suck.

I'm going to ask you, and this is very serious, how in the world you want to buy a car or a truck that uses plastic trash can lids as rim covers...

Come on, this is too much... no need to discuss...

 

[billvon]

I am passing by, because I am not in the mood of discussing what is obvious, electric cars suck.

Aww. Getting jealous because they always leave you in their dust? Can't blame you; that's enough to make anyone feel small. But don't feel bad! Maybe someday you'll be able to afford one.

I'm going to ask you, and this is very serious, how in the world you want to buy a car or a truck that uses plastic trash can lids as rim covers...

There are far more gas cars that use hideously ugly, trashy plastic hubcaps than electric cars.

 

[Write4U]

I'm going to ask you, and this is very serious, how in the world you want to buy a car or a truck that uses plastic trash can lids as rim covers...

How about Hemp? Lots of cars use hemp for dashboards and door panels. BMWs have Hemp parts.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

How about Hemp? Lots of cars use hemp for dashboards and door panels. BMWs have Hemp parts.

i think your preaching to a different choir

i think they are dissatisfied with the technology level & have the money to buy it
but looking for ways to game back the cost as a form of moral excuse
as a beat-up against a brand
which they have not yet listed
i may be wrong
thats just a casual guess

electric cars are ridiculously expensive compared to the average mode wage

& with resources
when you factor the old model of economics(which they wont change & label as socialist or communist when china use it)
how many years does it take to wait for the investors to freely choose to move their money into electric cars to bring the prices down so most of the people can swap ?

so the investors wait & game the government to try & squeeze free money from the government working class poor
to use as price write downs to their investment portfolio

then you have posts like this one
gaming for the govt to give more free money to the electric car makers so the rich can get more % returns & slightly cheaper new cars

smells of political games for profit