Eighteen again.

[jmpet]

A serum.

They take samples of your DNA from across and throughout your body.

They map your DNA down to the last chain. Then they take all the samples and overlay them to form one uber-DNA sequence.

This is your DNA at 18 years old.

They make a serum with a dozen doses from the uber-strain and keep them on liquid hydrogen.

They inject you with one dose of the strain.

Your body undergoes changes as your DNA is reassembled.

You shed old skin, grow new muscle and teeth and limbs and organs:

You become yourself at 18 again.

The accelerated process takes six months in a spa in Florida in luxury on a calorie-high diet as you regrow anew.

You walk in at 65 and walk out at 18.

Six months therapy, $250,000 for the treatment.

Your opinion is greatly appreciated.

 

[billvon]

They inject you with one dose of the strain.

Replacing every bit of DNA in your body with 18 year old analogs will not make you 18 years old. All that wear and tear is still there. Might kickstart some senescent cells and slow down some tumors, though.

Also, injecting you with DNA doesn't do anything; it degrades almost immediately. You'd have to come up with a delivery vector, like a retrovirus. Of course, coming up with a retrovirus that successfully infects every cell in your body without killing you would be a bit of a challenge.

 

[jmpet]

No- let's look past this. They take 1,000 samples of your DNA from all across your body and overlay the DNA sequences and close off the telomeres.

It's a magic shot that takes 6 months to physically complete as you grow into an 18 year old again.

What is the tradeoff? I see none? DNA mutation perhaps? But even this is relegated with an "alpha strain":you live 600 years with your original DNA.

Where's the evil in this?

Is the story set 600 years from now???

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

No- let's look past this. They take 1,000 samples of your DNA from all across your body and overlay the DNA sequences and close off the telomeres. It's a magic shot that takes 6 months to physically complete as you grow into an 18 year old again. What is the tradeoff? I see none? DNA mutation perhaps? But even this is relegated with an "alpha strain":you live 600 years with your original DNA. Where's the evil in this? Is the story set 600 years from now???

* * * * NOTE FROM A MODERATOR * * * *

You didn't respond in any substantive way to Bill's challenge to your original post. Therefore, in accordance with the scientific method, your assertion is still under peer review. Before you can pursue your argument any further on SciForums you must defend it against the criticisms in Bill's peer review.

Furthermore, I have my own questions:

• 1. What is the mechanism by which the injection of reengineered DNA will cause all of the old DNA to... to what? vanish? vaporize? Slink away in defeat as the new DNA approaches, holding a taser?
• 2. How is the new DNA going to merge into your incredibly complex body in all the right places to ensure that the transition is both orderly and complete?
• 3. What will happen to your brain? Brain cells contain probably at least half of the data that defines your personality and memories. They undergo death and replacement at a very slow rate. If you replace them all in six months you'll forget who you are; you'll forget your native language. Hell, you'll forget how to eat!

Please provide good-faith answers to Bill's questions and my own questions before you pursue this line of reasoning any further.

 

[Skeptical]

This idea needs further thought. The basic suggestion aint gonna work. However, you may be able to modify the idea into something more practical. Nice challenge for you.

 

[cosmictraveler]

By some of the code, it should be understood that DNA change is tiny and infinitesimal, governing very few expressions of certain genes. Most of your building block DNA does not undergo change, and is not likely to. There has been an upsurge of theory in alternative health and self help fields about how changing thinking might result in DNA change. This is unproven work, though there are some interesting changes that science has noted. One is a noted ability for people who have undergone trauma to evolve new neural pathways in the brain when undergoing therapy like cognitive behavioral therapy; yet this may simply be an expression of what your brain cells are already coded to do.

As we age, for instance, you may note DNA expression changes in a variety of ways. Hair gets gray, skin gets wrinkly, and diseases are more common. The effect of environmental influence on DNA is still being studied intensely, but there are some certain known features. For one thing, DNA change may really be better called DNA mutation. Certain cells programs don’t work as well, and this is reflected in aging. Exactly why certain codes, for example to produce tight young skin, don’t work as well isn’t fully known. There is strong supposition though that things like sun exposure may change how well DNA operates.

http://www.wisegeek.com/can-your-dna-change-during-your-life.htm

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Your opinion is greatly appreciated.

jmpet,

What is this? :shrug: You need to be clearer as to what you are asking. Is this an idea you’re working on for a science fiction story/novel/movie? Is it an actual business operating in Florida?

As it stands it’s nothing but incoherent pseudoscientific nonsense. It’s just a mish-mash of scientific terms jumbled together into a meaningless paragraph. It uses various scientific terms but bears no resemblance to any existing scientific capability. But if it’s a sci-fi story, then that’s okay. You can work on it to make it sound a bit more believable without having to be technically accurate. If it’s an actual real business, then they are con artists and the authorities need to be alerted to their activities.

 

[billvon]

No- let's look past this. They take 1,000 samples of your DNA from all across your body and overlay the DNA sequences and close off the telomeres.

You can't "close off" telomeres. If you want to restore your DNA you have to replace the telomeres. They're the ends of chromosomes that get sort of eroded away with time due to incomplete transcription.

However, if you replace every telomere in your body, you are almost guaranteed to end up with cancer. Telomeres are an important method of programmed senescence; that's a critical way your body has of stopping cells from multiplying without limit (which is what cancer is.)

What is the tradeoff? I see none?

Cancer, lack of a delivery system, lack of a regulatory mechanism. Instant death if you really put 18 year old DNA in all your cells; putting them in red blood cells would destroy them quickly.

Where's the evil in this?

Doesn't sound evil to me, just dangerous. But give it a try.

 

[jmpet]

1. What is the mechanism by which the injection of reengineered DNA will cause all of the old DNA to... to what? vanish? vaporize? Slink away in defeat as the new DNA approaches, holding a taser?

Kind of hard to flesh out a concept without going into detail i.e. an idea destroyed by its inception.

The method of delivery is the next step. Perhaps they extract your stem cells and correct them by overwriting, then culture it to make a serum which is injected into say, your spinal column.

There is no rejection- it's your own DNA. To go slightly more into detail, your DNA unravels as you grow old. This process will rewrite your DNA to when it wasn't unwound (by overwriting transcription) and then it takes over, rewriting your DNA to its original full form.

2. How is the new DNA going to merge into your incredibly complex body in all the right places to ensure that the transition is both orderly and complete?

If it's a stem cell injection, then the stem cells know what they're doing.

3. What will happen to your brain? Brain cells contain probably at least half of the data that defines your personality and memories. They undergo death and replacement at a very slow rate. If you replace them all in six months you'll forget who you are; you'll forget your native language. Hell, you'll forget how to eat!

Your lost memories (the dead neurons) are gone. What memories you have left, which comprises 100% of your being are preserved. The brain grows a trillion new neurons which integrate with your existing memory increasing your capacity to recall things as well as your capacity to learn new things.

If you get the treatment 5 times, say, your IQ will invariably go up past 200... the older you get, the wiser AND smarter you become.

It's a magic pill. I am trying to see a downside to this. And yes, it's taking a leap of faith in technology but it's not a big leap- we could be doing this for real 20 or 50 years from now.

 

[jmpet]

Replacing every bit of DNA in your body with 18 year old analogs will not make you 18 years old. All that wear and tear is still there. Might kickstart some senescent cells and slow down some tumors, though.

See previous post. Stem cell therapy to rewrite your DNA. Old broken bones fix and regrow themselves; lost teeth come back.

Also, injecting you with DNA doesn't do anything; it degrades almost immediately. You'd have to come up with a delivery vector, like a retrovirus. Of course, coming up with a retrovirus that successfully infects every cell in your body without killing you would be a bit of a challenge.

Yes. And to paraphrase Scotty, "sure it'll take work to make it work, but the payoff will be in the trillions of dollars." Medical research lives for this sort of thing.

Sure a lot of kinks need to be worked out but you'll make yourself a billionaire in the process. There has to be an accurate delivery system- if it's concievable to open the spine and inject stem cells to regrow the CNS to give a paraplegic use of his legs again, then it's completly believable that the same technology can be used to make a new you.

 

[jmpet]

* * * * NOTE FROM A MODERATOR * * * *

Fraggle- I trust your opinion completely. No need to point out you're a mod, you need only add you thoughts to make me scramble to make the thread coherent.

 

[jmpet]

jmpet,

What is this? :shrug: You need to be clearer as to what you are asking. Is this an idea you’re working on for a science fiction story/novel/movie? Is it an actual business operating in Florida?

As it stands it’s nothing but incoherent pseudoscientific nonsense. It’s just a mish-mash of scientific terms jumbled together into a meaningless paragraph. It uses various scientific terms but bears no resemblance to any existing scientific capability. But if it’s a sci-fi story, then that’s okay. You can work on it to make it sound a bit more believable without having to be technically accurate. If it’s an actual real business, then they are con artists and the authorities need to be alerted to their activities.

It's clever sci-fi rooted somewhat in reality, based on our current field of research, to bring about a new concept worth discussing.

It's an idea that's been in my head for a few months that needs to be worked out and needs intelligent minds to help me work it out.

But it's rooted in reality and is a possible direction for medicine to go. I hate to throw the tagline "sci-fi" to it because I believe in writing "real sci-fi science"- science that ain't been thought up yet but good science nonetheless.

I apologize to everyone in this forum. But let's all loosen up our neck collars and add your two cents to this notion: immortality in a realistic fashion: how would we discover immortality and how would we administer it to the public?

The end-goal to be honest at this point is nothing but an interesting thread to read and add to. I had my fifteen minutes as a professional writer and am content to contribute new ideas to the continuum at my advanged age of 41 (tomorrow).

I put it in this thread because I want people in the know to see it and add to it. Putting it into Free Thoughts puts it into the fantasyland of dragons and nymphs.

 

[jmpet]

You can't "close off" telomeres. If you want to restore your DNA you have to replace the telomeres. They're the ends of chromosomes that get sort of eroded away with time due to incomplete transcription.

The telomeres... the glue that holds fragile essential DNA will be rewritten. Say your DNA sequence is 6 billion nucleotides. This treatment will make it 7 billion, restoring the lost billion from the act of living.

However, if you replace every telomere in your body, you are almost guaranteed to end up with cancer. Telomeres are an important method of programmed senescence; that's a critical way your body has of stopping cells from multiplying without limit (which is what cancer is.)

This is where overwriting and multiple samples kick in. DNA samples from your stomach lining, intestine, heart, nervous system and brain will get you alpha strains of your DNA. They all need to be overwritten and "corrected".

Cancer, lack of a delivery system, lack of a regulatory mechanism. Instant death if you really put 18 year old DNA in all your cells; putting them in red blood cells would destroy them quickly.

It's a six month process. You don't expect someone paralyzed for 25 years to jump up from his wheelchair and to a headstand. It takes time for your body to adapt the new, corrected DNA.

I'd expect the first month to be confined to a bed shedding dead skin with youthful skin growing underneath. Of course all prosthetics have to be removed (including false teeth). The last month of a six month regimen high in protiens is spent on a treadmill or running along the shoreline.

And once again, we're using stem cell therapy, not a shot in the arm.

Doesn't sound evil to me, just dangerous. But give it a try.

Well, according to my family, I am of Spanish blood, the great-great-great grandson of Ponce de Leon. The notion of immortality is not only novel but widely accepted and desired and for the first time in human history technically within our grasp within the next half century. I am trying to connect the dots.

 

[GeoffP]

A serum.

They take samples of your DNA from across and throughout your body.

They map your DNA down to the last chain. Then they take all the samples and overlay them to form one uber-DNA sequence.

This is your DNA at 18 years old.

They make a serum with a dozen doses from the uber-strain and keep them on liquid hydrogen.

They inject you with one dose of the strain.

Your body undergoes changes as your DNA is reassembled.

You shed old skin, grow new muscle and teeth and limbs and organs:

You become yourself at 18 again.

The accelerated process takes six months in a spa in Florida in luxury on a calorie-high diet as you regrow anew.

You walk in at 65 and walk out at 18.

Six months therapy, $250,000 for the treatment.

Your opinion is greatly appreciated.

Deal. Think of all the people I would walk around and just punch in the face. I definitely misplaced my time in considered discussion, rather than driving right to the heart of the matter.

 

[Skeptical]

jmpet

There is no harm in considering new ideas. Just a need to remain in the world of reality.

We do not yet truly know the causes of ageing. A few theories, but no certainty. We assume it is mainly genetic, but even that is not certain. There is a hell of a lot of research yet to be done before any ideas for treatment can even be entertained.

I doubt that your idea of returning a 65 year old to equivalent of 18 years will ever be a goer. However, there is no reason ageing cannot be slowed, allowing long and healthy lives.

For example : if it turns out there are identifiable genes that lead to ageing, then perhaps sRNA treatment might silence their action, and permit longer lives.

At present, it is all speculation, and we must wait upon the results of further research.