ego towards the almighty

[The Devil Inside]

the largest struggle most spiritually aware people fight is with ego.
how many organized religions deem the pious worthy of reward above others?
is reward the primary goal of religious people? or is it truly a drive to better oneself?
does maintaining purity inside of a structured religion give you better standing with the almighty?
what is the ultimate ending of your reward? logically speaking, we will all fall from grace eventually, even if given our rewards for deeds in this life.

so does god demand absolute obedience from followers, or does he allow human error even in the afterlife?

thank you for your time.

you're perfect yes its true.
but without me, you are only you.
-mike patton

 

[Bruce Wayne]

the largest struggle most spiritually aware people fight is with ego.

Well remarked.

how many organized religions deem the pious worthy of reward above others?is reward the primary goal of religious people? or is it truly a drive to better oneself?

Why not both? I think that (My) religion uses the reward in order to make the faithfull more spiritually aware and instill him with the will to be better and rise above the material.

does maintaining purity inside of a structured religion give you better standing with the almighty?

I don't agree with the question. The way you put it forth it sounds as if all religions can all be true while contradictory. If only one is truth Allah can accept only the true one.

what is the ultimate ending of your reward? logically speaking, we will all fall from grace eventually, even if given our rewards for deeds in this life.

Why?

so does god demand absolute obedience from followers, or does he allow human error even in the afterlife?

My impression is that there is no need for human error in the afterlife.

thank you for your time.

My pleasure.

:m:

 

[s t e p h]

Bruce Wayne??? i remember that name from somwhere?? where??

 

[The Devil Inside]

bruce wayne, of all the wonderful people i have had discourse with on this site, i enjoy banter with you the best, i think.
i believe that god (allah, jehovah, ein sof, etc.) is only the tip of the iceburg into the infinity that is The One True Source. i myself am jewish, and believe that all spiritual systems are ways to bring yourself closer to that source. an infinite being could not be of any mindset that we can comprehend. therefore, it is folly to say that only one true path exists (according to my own beliefs, that is.).

to answer your question about falling after achieving grace......
even in the afterlife, we maintain our own intelligence, no? a flawed intelligence in comparison to the infinite intelligence of God. God is the only flawlessness in existence. therefore, in an eternal timescale, it stands to reason that even the holiest and most pious soul would EVENTUALLY sin in the afterlife. it is not an issue of human error being necessary. it is an issue of mathematical certainty.

i appreciate your comments, and hope to recieve more!



thats why im easy.
im easy on sunday morning.
-lionel richie

 

[Cris]

The ultimate desire of every spiritually minded person is personal happiness and survival. Not suprisingly non-spiritual people seek exactly the same thing but through naturalistic means.

 

[Jenyar]

the largest struggle most spiritually aware people fight is with ego.
how many organized religions deem the pious worthy of reward above others?
is reward the primary goal of religious people? or is it truly a drive to better oneself?
does maintaining purity inside of a structured religion give you better standing with the almighty?
what is the ultimate ending of your reward? logically speaking, we will all fall from grace eventually, even if given our rewards for deeds in this life.

Religious activities can be understood by the principle of kenosis. Emptying oneself of ego, personal ambition and comfort, but not of identity. Non-spiritual people seek none of these things. If the only certainty is yourself, then it is essential to establish yourself.

Sin means falling away from that "one true source", but if God himself maintains that relationship, there can be no falling away anymore. That's why He lets fall what can fall. "Maintaining purity" is simply trying to maintain the status quo, and prevent falling any further. It does not make anyone more worthy of reward.

 

[I Am F_AQ2]

They way I have always been lead to believe is that sin is not possible after death (or the end). Some religions say you are absorbed into a greater being thereby you cease to be human. Others put you in a perpetual state of contentness or being with God in which case you do not act or do anything. Once again this negates the possibility of sin. Correct me if I am wrong as I am likely to be. I guess the real question is what each person believes the afterlife truly is. I am sure the answer is different for every person whether from the same belief system or not.

 

[The Devil Inside]

hmmmmm.....

 

[SKULLZ]

Bruce Wayne??? i remember that name from somwhere?? where??

dunahnananana BATMAN!

 

[duendy]

any questions...maybe more so especially deep ones, we have to not ignore the premises...in this case they are 'God' "Almighty" "ego" "afterlife"....what do we MEAN wehen we say 'God'
otherwise we could all be speaking at cross purposes right? so let you into what i mean by that term, which i dont separate from 'Goddess' or Nature. do YOU separate them? i am seeing God then as direct feeling, NOt as a completely outside agency who sets down laws. the latter i see as a patriarchal activity as is set down in patriarchal mythology......which also includes Eastern ideas. in these mythologies, we get a concept of 'ego' and ego is usually denigrated. for the Abrahamic religions it is the creature created by the creator. and the ego in that context is the dis-obeying willful part of 'his' createes...for the East it is an 'illusion' and the job then is to realize this. so it is denigrated in a differnt way. though still is denigrated

for me, i have no problem with ego. it is a word, a term, an abstracted entity. it is 'you' as you think you are. but in the next moment you might feel differnt. howeer if i ask you your name and what you do you will probably tell me your address, your job, your likes and dislikes. that you feel is your ego. and when this social role feels confining many seek to escape it. get drunk etc
Death is the ending of that limitation. but death can happen also in life. things happen and the sense of yourself becomes contricted or expanded. but there always remeains a foci of experience. some people have reported NDEs where they have experiences....some tell of being attacked be 'demons'...this experience is commensurate with myth and shamanic reports etc. some explanations describe these demons representing the struggle not to let go of your sense of identity. ie., this blocking to expnded experience manifests as demons...or forces that tear 'you' apart

 

[cybercom]

Emptying oneself of ego, personal ambition and comfort, but not of identity.

Identity, I think, is one of the purposes behind religion, it gives us a sense of purpose and a core or center if you will that we recognize as solely our own. Ego on the other hand has the negative connotations of "I am better than you" which pious people can sometimes incorporate into their lives. Some get carried away in their own sense of right convinced that everyone else will burn in hell because of their unenlightened state. It is not a good thing, and some religions do believe the pious worthy above others for example the Calvinists, to them everything is preordained and we have no choice or freedom in this life. I've always thought that would really suck if we thought that we had no power to change anything or even to control our actions.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

bruce wayne, of all the wonderful people i have had discourse with on this site, i enjoy banter with you the best, i think.

Why thank you. I too appreciate a tranquil conversation. Especially, since they are growing rare in this section of Sciforums. So where were we?

i believe that god (allah, jehovah, ein sof, etc.) is only the tip of the iceburg into the infinity that is The One True Source. i myself am jewish, and believe that all spiritual systems are ways to bring yourself closer to that source. an infinite being could not be of any mindset that we can comprehend. therefore, it is folly to say that only one true path exists (according to my own beliefs, that is.).

While I do agree that God is beyond our limited comprehension, I would not jump to the conclusion that all paths lead to Him. Maybe none do, especially since we do not fully comprehend him we cannot say.

I prefer to believe that Allah is actually that Infinite God, otherwise why would anyone worship or venerate God, if He is only that tip of the iceberg.

Also, since these religions are not the same, and more importantly since they are contradictory, they cannot be equated (i.e. they would lead in different paths). Off course on the simple assumption that we do not know or comprehend God we limit our selves to not knowing anything.

to answer your question about falling after achieving grace......
even in the afterlife, we maintain our own intelligence, no? a flawed intelligence in comparison to the infinite intelligence of God. God is the only flawlessness in existence. therefore, in an eternal timescale, it stands to reason that even the holiest and most pious soul would EVENTUALLY sin in the afterlife. it is not an issue of human error being necessary. it is an issue of mathematical certainty.

I don’t agree. There are multiple possibilities. There is the possibility that our intelligence remains but that our “lower” inclinations disappear. There is also that it remains but that it is not giving expression. There is also the possibility that the notion of error itself is no longer.

My two cents for now…

:m:

 

[The Devil Inside]

bruce wayne.........
to profess belief in an infinite being is to acknowledge an infinite amount of routes to that infinity. there are MANY MANY MANY paths that men have found to bring themselves to "God". some bring you closer than others due to their twisting, winding pathways. but they all return to "God" eventually.
if you believe in the infinite being you say you do anyway. (not exactly sure if i worded that correctly)

"Off course on the simple assumption that we do not know or comprehend God we limit our selves to not knowing anything."-----i dont think i could have put it better.
good show!


i want to live with a cinnamon girl,
i could be happy the rest of my life with her!
---neil young

 

[StrayDogStrut]

does maintaining purity inside of a structured religion give you better standing with the almighty?

Not in and of itself, no. If you are within a structured religion it is probably more likely that you would have some form of a better standing because you are more likely to adhere to whatever laws your religion has. But there is plenty of room for being corrupt while being within a structure. How many people are a part of their place of worship and attend habitually, even though they are doing criminal acts in the meantime? There is not a different Bible that is taught inside or outside of a temple(or whatever your religion may have). Luther was absolutely correct

how many organized religions deem the pious worthy of reward above others?
is reward the primary goal of religious people? or is it truly a drive to better oneself?

Whether the pious are more worthy of reward depends on how you look at life. If things are black and white, then no, if all are inferior to God, we are all the same, no matter how pious you are. On the other hand, there does seem to be some sort of difference between a person who spends their life worshipping and helping others to be more worthy and someone who is just looking out for number one.

I think if you ask a lot of people if being religious is truly a drive to better yourself, you will find that a lot of people say that it is. However, I think if you take a step back, a lot of people are religious to save themselves from torment, which, is actually reward. If that is the case, is it a problem that many are religious only for the reward? Is it OK because what they are doing is right, so it doesn't matter why they do it?

 

[DoctorNO]

I don't agree with the question. The way you put it forth it sounds as if all religions can all be true while contradictory. If only one is truth Allah can accept only the true one.

And why not? Islam is a false religion and yet it could bring a muslim to a high level of mental and spiritual enlightenment that may be pleasing to a true god. A state of spirituality in which you are no longer enslaved by material longings, emotional weaknesses, and selfish desires. To me there is very little difference between an enlightened christian, an enlightened muslim, an enlightened buddhist, and an enlightened agnostic.

My point is the possibility that various religions may be false in each of their unique claims and yet could instill a true level of spirituality to a person that can bring bout his salvation.

My impression is that there is no need for human error in the afterlife.

Is Islam teaching you folks that muslims would be perfect in the afterlife?