Egalitarianism vs Femnism

ElectricFetus

ElectricFetus

Sanity going, going, gone
Valued Senior Member
Most people will agree with the idea that everyone should be treated equally, will agree that obsession or subjugation of anyone for reasons other than criminality (race,creed,gender) is wrong. This fits under the title of egalitarianism, why then do feminist not want to be titled as such? The feminist may argue "why can't I be both" which is moronic because it like asking "can't I walk left and still be walking?" in short if one is an egalitarian one is also a feminist, or at least an equality feminist.

The problem is not all feminist are egalitarians. I'm not going to attempt to convert these kinds of feminist. Rather to those that claim to be feminist yet agree with egalitarianism: why do you call your self a feminist then?
 
ElectricFetus said:
The problem is not all feminist are egalitarians.
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Agreed. And not all pro-gay-rights people, or pro-racial-equality people are egalitarians either.

Rather to those that claim to be feminist yet agree with egalitarianism: why do you call your self a feminist then?
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For the same reason I call myself a pro-LGBT rights person and a pro-racial equality person - even though some of those are not all that egalitarian.
 
I don't consider myself a feminist but help me understand, why can't someone be both?
 
billvon said:
For the same reason I call myself a pro-LGBT rights person and a pro-racial equality person - even though some of those are not all that egalitarian.
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Explain.

An egalitarian would also be pro-LGBT and pro-racial equality, if you believe in equality for all then why subgroup?

wegs said:
I don't consider myself a feminist but help me understand, why can't someone be both?
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If your an egalitarian then your automatically a feminist as well, if your a feminist and believe in equality for all your an egalitarian, so saying your a feminist and also an egalitarian is like saying "I'm a women but I'm also human" or inverse: saying your an egalitarian but also a feminist is like saying "I'm a human but also a women".
 
ElectricFetus said:
An egalitarian would also be pro-LGBT and pro-racial equality, if you believe in equality for all then why subgroup?
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I guess for the same reason I sometimes call myself an engineer, and sometimes an electrical engineer, and sometimes a power engineer - even though engineer contains all the others. Depends on who I'm talking to, I guess.

If your an egalitarian then your automatically a feminist as well, if your a feminist and believe in equality for all your an egalitarian, so saying your a feminist and also an egalitarian is like saying "I'm a women but I'm also human"
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Right. And you might say "I am a woman" when someone on line asked you who you were, and you might say "I'm a human" if an alien asked you that. (Unlikely, I know . . . .)
 
Lol :D ^^

Ok ...I understand. So, here's something.
According to feminism, human nature is "adrogynous."
Human nature is...adrogynous.

That's fascinating.
It states that while men and women have biological differences, our human nature is adrogynous.
Never heard that described quite like that.
 
Egalitarianism has more to do with equality of the "classes" of peoples along political, social and economic lines. Not really so much to do with race, religion or sex/gender.

wegs, the word "adrogynous" is new to me - could you possibly be referring to androgynous, with an "n" before the "d" : def. - possessing both male and female traits - ?
In the context you stated, it would mean that human nature is just that - human- and the same, regardless of sex/gender.
Therefore : human nature is androgynous.

By the way - regardless of egalitarianism or feminism - most people, including myself, would agree that human nature is, indeed, androgynous.
 
Definitions and Perspectives

ElectricFetus said:

Most people will agree with the idea that everyone should be treated equally, will agree that obsession or subjugation of anyone for reasons other than criminality (race,creed,gender) is wrong. This fits under the title of egalitarianism, why then do feminist not want to be titled as such? The feminist may argue "why can't I be both" which is moronic because it like asking "can't I walk left and still be walking?" in short if one is an egalitarian one is also a feminist, or at least an equality feminist.
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A working definition of egalitarianism must itself be egalitarian, else equality can be taken to mean a place for everything and everything in its place.

So here's one. Some conservatives, including world-renowned urologist Dr. David Samadi, would argue that women should pay more for health care. In Samadi's opinion, this is because women have breasts, ovaries, and a uterus. In his world, as a urologist, there is only the prostate. Everything else is unfair.

Now, while we can certainly set aside that sort of nuttiness, which is expected of Fox & Friends, it's not like this is the first time I've ever encountered the general proposition. People have used menstruation, pregnancy, and breasts as an excuse to pay women less in the workplace. It's hardly new.

So:

Health Insurance Premiums

— All people should have the same base health insurance rates.

— Women should have a higher base health insurance rate.​

Which is feminist? Which is egalitarian?

When you dive into the subtleties, you'll find that not all egalitarianism is the same.
 
Equality for what goal? egalitarianism for fairness sack is rather hollow, it is egalitarianism for the universal "pursuit of happiness". Asking women to pay more for having high maintenance organs is rather oppressive and counter to the point, more over socialize healthcare the world over has demonstrated that universal health premiums are not very oppressive at all.

Now if one is a feminist and want gender equality, but also want racial equality and legal equality for all, I don't see why the title egalitarian is not more accurate descriptor?
 
ElectricFetus said:
Rather to those that claim to be feminist yet agree with egalitarianism: why do you call your self a feminist then?
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Ask them.

It could be though that "egalitarian feminist" is intended to mean in a similar sense as "American feminist" or "German feminist" - ie. the person identifies themselves by their provenance, meaning that first they were a feminist, and over time developed a more egalitarian outlook, and are now in a stage where they find that both "egalitarian" and "feminist" applies to them.
 
wynn said:
Ask them.

It could be though that "egalitarian feminist" is intended to mean in a similar sense as "American feminist" or "German feminist" - ie. the person identifies themselves by their provenance, meaning that first they were a feminist, and over time developed a more egalitarian outlook, and are now in a stage where they find that both "egalitarian" and "feminist" applies to them.
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How can one be inbetwen?
 
ElectricFetus said:
What like realizing the oppression of all other people is just as important as the oppression of women?
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Just keep repeating the words #21, #22 and #23 from the last statement/question in your Post #10. It is, after all, essentially what you have been doing since starting this Thread.
 
long ago
when registering my sons for the local grade school, the form asked "Race?"
to which I wrote human

Equality is a phantom, a fantasy and an ideal.
Nobody is anyone else's equal.
That being said:
Only by refusing to acknowledge other's attempts to separate us by race, sex, religion, etc...etc... will we ever be able to acheive completely equal rights, and privileges.
Property is a crime against nature. Capitalism is a crime against humanity. We are inherently all criminals, and in that,we are truly equal.
 
I think that when speaking of equality, we mean that every human being has equal, intrinsic value. Our equality and value shouldn’t be measured by accomplishments, race, religion, size, strength, gender, etc…it should be measured strictly by the fact that we all have intrinsic worth as human beings, equally.

Just my thoughts.
 
wegs said:
I think that when speaking of equality, we mean that every human being has equal, intrinsic value. Our equality and value shouldn’t be measured by accomplishments, race, religion, size, strength, gender, etc…it should be measured strictly by the fact that we all have intrinsic worth as human beings, equally.

Just my thoughts.
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True dat! Mad props! Grok'd!
 
sculptor said:
Equality is a phantom, a fantasy and an ideal.
Nobody is anyone else's equal.
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No one is claiming they are. Trying to make everyone the same is a fool's errand.

However, working for equality - equality of opportunity, equality of rights, equality of treatment, equality under the law - is a worthy goal, and it is what so many people have been working towards for decades.
 
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