E=mc2 questions?

[Seattle]

TC, it's impossible to answer your questions because they are all over the place. What do you mean by "energy"?

High pressure is high pressure. Closed containers (as in a scuba tank) aren't affected by atmospheric pressure. Water isn't compressible, gases are...it's just hard to deal with all of your questions because most of them are nonsense.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

TC, it's impossible to answer your questions because they are all over the place. What do you mean by "energy"?

High pressure is high pressure. Closed containers (as in a scuba tank) aren't affected by atmospheric pressure. Water isn't compressible, gases are...it's just hard to deal with all of your questions because most of them are nonsense.

It is hard for me to explain things or word my questions correctly because I think in pictures, I visualise what I am thinking about and try to put myself in the process has an object or a force, that is why I have so many ideas and questions, I can assure you my thinking is not gibberish although my contributions might be.
I will try to word it different.

On a hot sunny day there is less humidity in the atmosphere by the surface layer, this I presume means less density, less force on the surface?

 

[billvon]

You are saying on a hot sunny day when the atmospheric pressure is high , that there is more pressure on the surface?

No, I am saying that if you heated the entire atmosphere, evenly, then pressure would not increase - because surface air pressure is determined by the mass of air above a surface, and mass does not change with temperature.

In a closed container there is no acting external pressure by the atmosphere?

If there is a vacuum in the container? Then there is a net force inwards on the container. If it's a pressurized air tank? Then there is a net outwards force on the container. (To be precise, the internal pressure exceeds the external pressure.)

My question is if the newtons of force are changed by air pressure of air, is this not a change in mass?

If you add air, then you change mass. If you do not add air, you do not change mass. Heating a sealed container of air raises the pressure but not the weight of the air.

If air has mass, and F=ma, and air has a newton weight , but air can rise opposed to gravity, meaning minus force of gravity, -F=ma of G, becoming less newtons , that must mean less mass when the energy is added to air?

No.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

No, I am saying that if you heated the entire atmosphere, evenly, then pressure would not increase - because surface air pressure is determined by the mass of air above a surface, and mass does not change with temperature.

If there is a vacuum in the container? Then there is a net force inwards on the container. If it's a pressurized air tank? Then there is a net outwards force on the container. (To be precise, the internal pressure exceeds the external pressure.)

If you add air, then you change mass. If you do not add air, you do not change mass. Heating a sealed container of air raises the pressure but not the weight of the air.

No.

Ok, you say what I mean , so I will reword it back to you, If you add air you add mass, change the mass, so if you remove the air or humidity you get less mass, change the mass, on a hot day on the surface the atmosphere has less density and mass because some of it has risen?

What force changes the mass of air to make it rise?

There must be an equal and opposite force to change velocity, the velocity of airs mass is centripetal, what force is equal and opposite to gravity to make air change velocity?

 

[billvon]

If you add air you add mass, change the mass

Yes. Adding mass increases the mass.

so if you remove the air or humidity you get less mass, change the mass

Yes. Removing mass means you have less mass.

on a hot day on the surface the atmosphere has less density and mass because some of it has risen?

Warm air rises because it is less dense and thus weighs less per unit VOLUME. However the MASS of air does not change.

What force changes the mass of air to make it rise?

Buoyancy. Less dense volumes of gas rise through more dense volumes of gas.

 

[theorist-constant12345]

Yes. Adding mass increases the mass.

Yes. Removing mass means you have less mass.

Warm air rises because it is less dense and thus weighs less per unit VOLUME. However the MASS of air does not change.

Buoyancy. Less dense volumes of gas rise through more dense volumes of gas.

That does not answer the question, buoyancy is not a force that is opposed to gravity and equal to gravity, science says that all mass is attracted to mass, air has mass, air is attracted to the surface the same as any other mass, gravity applies the same force on air at a constant the same has any other object.
I know you call it buoyancy,
However, there has to be force to oppose gravity to change velocity from the direction of the gravity, so what force makes the rising gases accelerate away from gravity?
F=ma


1 kg of air has 9.81N of gravity force acting upon it, when the air is heated, 1 kg of air has 0 newtons of gravity force acting on it, the maths to that is 0 mass.

 

[Aqueous Id]

I do not say Energy = pressure, i said +E or -E to the atmosphere equals more or less pressure on the surface. More or less newtons of force.

You used an equals sign, which was the error I was responding to. An increase in pressure does not require an increase in energy, since it can happen while the volume is expanding. And the rest of what you are talking about simply makes no sense, since you are mixing all kinds of unrelated quantities.

You are saying on a hot sunny day when the atmospheric pressure is high , that there is more pressure on the surface?

Warm air expands and becomes less dense. However, the magnitude of air pressure depends on the mass of the column of air above the location in question, as Origin explained. Again, you need to ask how things work rather than stating how they work.

My question is if the newtons of force are changed by air pressure of air, is this not a change in mass?

When the air pressure rises, the Newtons of force per unit area increases. It indicates that the column of air above the location in question has become slightly denser (heavier). This is because air masses aloft are not exactly equal in density; they shift as the uneven heating and cooling of the Earth causes them to circulate.

I must have crossed wires or something.

You simply have a low science IQ.

If air has mass, and F=ma, and air has a newton weight , but air can rise opposed to gravity, meaning minus force of gravity, -F=ma of G, becoming less newtons , that must mean less mass when the energy is added to air?

No, the air pressure can be either high or low when the surface temp is high. So none of what you said makes sense. And the only reason for updrafts is because of uneven heating. Denser air falls, pushing less dense air upward. Read up on buoyancy.

 

[Aqueous Id]

That does not answer the question, buoyancy is not a force that is opposed to gravity and equal to gravity,

Wrong. You need to stop stating claims that are incorrect.

science says that all mass is attracted to mass, air has mass, air is attracted to the surface the same as any other mass, gravity applies the same force on air at a constant the same has any other object.

You are unaware that air masses have different densities.

I know you call it buoyancy,

Now go learn what that means.

However, there has to be force to oppose gravity to change velocity from the direction of the gravity, so what force makes the rising gases accelerate away from gravity?
F=ma

The same principle that keeps an inflated inner tube, or a piece of dry wood, or oil, or anything else less dense than water, floating on the surface. Air masses are not all equal in density. The heavier ones descend, displacing the lighter air (less dense) aloft.

1 kg of air has 9.81N of gravity force acting upon it, when the air is heated, 1 kg of air has 0 newtons of gravity force acting on it, the maths to that is 0 mass.

Whatever you do, avoid all math here since it is one of your weaknesses. And no, this statement is incorrect.

 

[Seattle]

On a hot sunny day there is less humidity in the atmosphere by the surface layer, this I presume means less density, less force on the surface?

Why do you state that "on a hot sunny day there is less humidity in the atmosphere by the surface layer"? If you are in North Carolina there is likely to be 90% humidity and if you are in Arizona there is likely to be low humidity on that same sunny day.

Humidity has to do with moisture in the air (the air can hold more on a warm day by the way).

 

[origin]

That does not answer the question, buoyancy is not a force that is opposed to gravity and equal to gravity, science says that all mass is attracted to mass, air has mass, air is attracted to the surface the same as any other mass, gravity applies the same force on air at a constant the same has any other object.
I know you call it buoyancy,.

No, billvon is not saying that is buoyancy, you are mistaken yet again.
Billvon made the mistake of thinking that you could have the slightest inkling of what bouyancy is.

Buoyancy. If I have a helium balloon it rises because the air pressure is slightly higher on the bottom half of the balloon than the top half of the balloon. Since the helium balloon is lighter than the air this slight difference results in a net force upwards.

How can we prove that a helium balloon rises due to air pressure and not gravity?

Here is an experiment. If you are driving your car and you accelerate the force on an object in the car will be towards the back of the car, right? In other words if you had a ball on the floor it would roll towards the back of the car when you accelerate. I can only hope that this is something you can figure out.

Now get a helium balloon, put it in your car and accelerate. Which direction would it move? I say the balloon will move forward and not backwards. The same phenomena will happen if you slow down the balloon will move backwards instead of forward.

This is due to the air pressure being lower in the front of your car than the back when you accelerate, so the balloon moves to the lower pressure for the same reason that it would float up into the air.

I am not sure why I am telling you this, you probably come up with some psycho conclusion like the balloon move that way due to positron emission or something...

 

[origin]

On days were the atmospheric pressure is high is due to the flow of air. A high pressure system rotates in a clockwise direction in the northern hemisphere and there is a downward movement of air this raises the pressure slightly. It is not due to moisture or energy or pixies. When there is an upward movement of air this is a low pressure system. The most striking example of this is a hurricane. The eye is a rapidly rising collumn of air that results in the lowest pressures usually seen at sealevel.

Again I assume this will be wasted on you.

If you were half as smart as you think you are, you would be twice as smart as you actually are.

 

[Kittamaru]

Okay... I think we've given this a fair shake by this point...

Anyone have any objections to shutting this down, both for TC's safety and the sanity of everyone involved?

 

[theorist-constant12345]

Okay... I think we've given this a fair shake by this point...

Anyone have any objections to shutting this down, both for TC's safety and the sanity of everyone involved?

Yeah just bin it, no one will ever understand anyway, not my problem no more I have tried to get people understand.

 

[origin]

Okay... I think we've given this a fair shake by this point...

Anyone have any objections to shutting this down, both for TC's safety and the sanity of everyone involved?

Sounds OK to me, it has been circling the bowl for 39 pages.

 

[Kittamaru]

Done and done