A step in the right direction, but this case should have been tossed out for lack of evidence long ago. What a sham for the prosecutor's political gain. He should be jailed & pay for the lives he is ruining. And the N.C. taxpayers should pay the accused a hefty settlement.
Duke lacrosse case: it's about time
- Thread starter zanket
- Start date
A step in the right direction, but this case should have been tossed out for lack of evidence long ago. What a sham for the prosecutor's political gain. He should be jailed & pay for the lives he is ruining. And the N.C. taxpayers should pay the accused a hefty settlement.
phoenix2634
Registered Senior Member
I agree. You'd think he'd be interested in doing his job, by droping the case and letting the police find who did this. But then again maybe he has a grudge against Duke, or something against the sport of lacrosse.
I strongly hope the boys involved sue the woman, the DA, and Duke University for millions of dollars.
Its racist.
That'll be the cop out and no one will want to touch it and get their hands dirty. But yes. I hope they sue her ass. She ruined a whole lot for them
In these day's america, an accusation is a conviction in the eyes of the public. these boys now have to wear a sign around that says "possible racist"
That'll be the cop out and no one will want to touch it and get their hands dirty. But yes. I hope they sue her ass. She ruined a whole lot for them
In these day's america, an accusation is a conviction in the eyes of the public. these boys now have to wear a sign around that says "possible racist"
Yep. They need restitution for this.
Now it's time to strip him of all his assets. After all, the families of the three victims lost over a million dollars they paid in legal fees. Whatever job Nifong has in the future, everything above a subsistence portion of his wages should be garnished to pay off the victims, including hefty punitive damages. He should be required to work at least 40 hours a week to get those wages, and not be able to retire until he has paid off his debt.
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
North Carolina is the same state that sentenced Alan Gell to death for a murder he didn't commit and had a policy of hiding evidence defense counsel (which they did in Gell's case, leaving him to rot for 10 years on death row before the truth came out), and no one was disbarred. (They people involved received "reprimands", i.e. strong worded letters that say, in essence, "Bad Lawyer! Trying to get an innocent man executed for a murder he didn't commit!? No! That's a BAD LAWYER!!!") I don't think what Nifong did was substantially worse than that.
Nifong did deserve to be disbarred, imo, but it's not even the most shocking abuse to come out of that state.
^Abuse is the word. It's seems very cutthroat there and the people. North carolina is really racist too. I had the most bad experiences there and alabama. Because it is right between the north and south. The natives are bold and unapologetic about their bigotry. I would say most of america is racist but some states are more palpable. I think some places evolve differently by the type of people that inhabit the place, even my own people seemed more racist towards even me at that place! It's funny that cities such as raleigh have many immigrants and there is the research triangle park but it is really amazingly racist and has a mean southern identity. For instance, Charlotte is more open-minded than Raleigh but raleigh has the most immigrants who work there because of rtp. I worked in rtp and lived in raleigh and Texas is a more cosmopolitan and friendlier state than that asshole if you can call a state an asshole. The whites and blacks are racist, asians whitewashed, indians whitewashed and everybody racist or self-racist to cowtow to their southern state bigotry. Every state has a personality and I detest that place. I don't like the way they do business, I always seemed to have the sense I was being taken advantage of or getting the short end of the stick or getting screwed. Actually Hawaii and Washington were the most progressive or open-minded states I've experienced with Texas the most surprisingly friendly being considered a southern state and the most progressive and cosmopolitan of them.
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Question: Are we supposed to be so enraged because this happened at all?
Question #2: Given that this sort of thing happens every day in the U.S.--e.g. prosecutors behaving with gross impropriety--why should we be any more enraged about this than any other case?
Question #3: If the accused had not been students of an upper-class university, would anyone have cared?
The standing answers as I see them in society are:
These kids may be innocent, but that doesn't mean I would let them anywhere near my daughter. Apparently college parties with strippers and massive amounts of booze are only inappropriate if you're not rich enough to go to Duke.
The reality is that this case is a gross injustice. But where the note in the news reports that the families have spent millions against these charges is supposed to accentuate our sympathy with the victims of this injustice, it also needs to be pointed out that not everyone has millions to spend against bogus charges leveraged by a corrupt prosecutor. After all, the only reason people were ever upset that OJ was acquitted was the fact that he was black. Had a rich, white man bought his way out of a gross criminal charge, he would still have great respect. Look at Woody Allen, for instance. Dude had sex with his own daughter, and people only care because it's great fodder for the joke machine.
The greatest shame is that we're so enraged about a prosecutor picking on people who were capable of defending themselves. Strange how those who haven't the means to protect themselves against this sort of corruption go forgotten. I guess it's just easier that way.
Let the DA come crashing down as the law demands. And then let's start working for justice for someone other than the idiotic wealthy.
Question #2: Given that this sort of thing happens every day in the U.S.--e.g. prosecutors behaving with gross impropriety--why should we be any more enraged about this than any other case?
Question #3: If the accused had not been students of an upper-class university, would anyone have cared?
The standing answers as I see them in society are:
(1) No, we are not supposed to be enraged.
(2) We should be enraged because the alleged victim was black, the alleged attackers were not, and, furthermore, the alleged attackers are perceived as rich. These points make all the difference in the world.
(3) Of course not. Were the students not part of an upper-class university, they would merely be getting what they deserved.
(2) We should be enraged because the alleged victim was black, the alleged attackers were not, and, furthermore, the alleged attackers are perceived as rich. These points make all the difference in the world.
(3) Of course not. Were the students not part of an upper-class university, they would merely be getting what they deserved.
These kids may be innocent, but that doesn't mean I would let them anywhere near my daughter. Apparently college parties with strippers and massive amounts of booze are only inappropriate if you're not rich enough to go to Duke.
The reality is that this case is a gross injustice. But where the note in the news reports that the families have spent millions against these charges is supposed to accentuate our sympathy with the victims of this injustice, it also needs to be pointed out that not everyone has millions to spend against bogus charges leveraged by a corrupt prosecutor. After all, the only reason people were ever upset that OJ was acquitted was the fact that he was black. Had a rich, white man bought his way out of a gross criminal charge, he would still have great respect. Look at Woody Allen, for instance. Dude had sex with his own daughter, and people only care because it's great fodder for the joke machine.
The greatest shame is that we're so enraged about a prosecutor picking on people who were capable of defending themselves. Strange how those who haven't the means to protect themselves against this sort of corruption go forgotten. I guess it's just easier that way.
Let the DA come crashing down as the law demands. And then let's start working for justice for someone other than the idiotic wealthy.
TIassa:
Valid, but there's a great difference between having consensual sex with your step-daughter (correct me if I'm wrong, I hate celebrity gossip) and murdering two people.
R. Kelly had sex with a thirteen year old girl, and it's being treated as nothing -- if not just a huge joke about what he can get away with. James Brown's marital and drug abuse was treated with the same indifference.
So I do not think that it is wholly a matter of race.
But -- and I am just acting as devil's advocate here -- would they really have attracted so much negative attention were they not white and rich? Had whoever that girl was, had she said "oh, five black guys gang raped me" and had there been a simular lack of evidence, would anyone have cared to push the charges?
Valid, but there's a great difference between having consensual sex with your step-daughter (correct me if I'm wrong, I hate celebrity gossip) and murdering two people.
R. Kelly had sex with a thirteen year old girl, and it's being treated as nothing -- if not just a huge joke about what he can get away with. James Brown's marital and drug abuse was treated with the same indifference.
So I do not think that it is wholly a matter of race.
But -- and I am just acting as devil's advocate here -- would they really have attracted so much negative attention were they not white and rich? Had whoever that girl was, had she said "oh, five black guys gang raped me" and had there been a simular lack of evidence, would anyone have cared to push the charges?
Xev said:
I agree, Xev. It's not just about race. It's also about money.
Forgive my ignorance: Was James Brown's wife black?
We must also remember the victim. White rich boys raping white rich girls is a house tradition in New York's upper crust. And nobody cares.
What would have been different is that nobody would have cared if the DA suppressed evidence and advanced bogus charges. At least, that's how I see it.
A couple of stories I haven't had time to follow up on:
- There's a story circulating about an "illegal immigrant" who was deported from the U.S. Except that he was legal. The only reason he was thought to be illegal was that police officers heard him speaking Spanish. The initial NPR report I heard would have me believe that nobody ever bothered to check and verify the guy's identity. He was Hispanic, he spoke Spanish, ergo he's illegal. The latest as I understand it is that his mother traveled from the U.S. to Mexico in order to view two corpses, neither of which turned out to be her son. I haven't done any research yet, but I find it interesting that nobody cares about this, especially in contrast with my unanswered question about why nobody cares about the illegal Brits killing their American objects of obsession. More to come, of course, as I figure out the details.
- Seattle police are in hot water. Not only did they falsely arrest a man in a wheelchair as a crack dealer (their finely-crafted report disagrees with the gas-station security footage they didn't know existed), but they are also accused of beating the man. (How many cops does it take to beat a cripple? Ask SPD!) One of the officers turns out to be a complete moron with a shady history dating back 12 years; too long a story for this note. Point being that the Office of Professional Accounting, a sanctioned body whose task is to officially investigate complaints about officer conduct, recently released its report on the January arrest. According to the city's attorneys, the report is being suppressed from public release because it is too embarrassing for the police department.
- Seattle police are in hot water. Not only did they falsely arrest a man in a wheelchair as a crack dealer (their finely-crafted report disagrees with the gas-station security footage they didn't know existed), but they are also accused of beating the man. (How many cops does it take to beat a cripple? Ask SPD!) One of the officers turns out to be a complete moron with a shady history dating back 12 years; too long a story for this note. Point being that the Office of Professional Accounting, a sanctioned body whose task is to officially investigate complaints about officer conduct, recently released its report on the January arrest. According to the city's attorneys, the report is being suppressed from public release because it is too embarrassing for the police department.
In either case, nobody seems to care. It just seems strange to me that it's these 3 rich dudes that make all the difference.
TIassa:
It's the glory of equality through capitalism.
And I have no idea. Black?
I'd have to see it the same way. Unless it, through some fluke, came to national attention, then it would be a circus....and forgotten three months later, whether or not the innocent person was aquitted.
It's the glory of equality through capitalism.
And I have no idea. Black?
I'd have to see it the same way. Unless it, through some fluke, came to national attention, then it would be a circus....and forgotten three months later, whether or not the innocent person was aquitted.
I can confirm that the Godfather of Soul's third wife, Adrienne, was black. Woo-hoo. Sorry, I had a few minutes to look it up.
Anyway, point being--and this has to do with money and race--that if James Brown had beaten a white wife, and one who did not later die of a drug overdose including PCP, the issue probably would have ruined his career. As it was, however, she was a black woman, so people don't seem to care as much. Besides, he's James Brown. Like Michael Jackson, he is an institution. People cling to certain myths that involve fame and money. Indeed, skin tone is important; it's why people are furious that OJ was acquitted of murder. If his ex-wife had been black, people wouldn't give a damn.
Or so says me.
Tell ya, Xev, I really gotta consider leaving the U.S. permanently. Existing among these folks--including the guy using the library terminal next to me in order to find a sex partner (what's that on the keyboard) and the guy on the other side of me who can't stop shouting into his phone--is really putting a downer on my regard for humanity.
Of course, a few months in the UK would slaughter the Mark Steel-inspired sense of humor I have about the Brits, and time among the Irish would probably only revitalize my hostility toward Christianity. Don't get me wrong; I think it's cool they're willing to elect a female president, but I have a daughter. How could I possibly reduce her social status in an aesthetic trade and look at myself in the mirror afterward?
Uh-oh. Sorry. I'm digressing.
Anyway, point being--and this has to do with money and race--that if James Brown had beaten a white wife, and one who did not later die of a drug overdose including PCP, the issue probably would have ruined his career. As it was, however, she was a black woman, so people don't seem to care as much. Besides, he's James Brown. Like Michael Jackson, he is an institution. People cling to certain myths that involve fame and money. Indeed, skin tone is important; it's why people are furious that OJ was acquitted of murder. If his ex-wife had been black, people wouldn't give a damn.
Or so says me.
Tell ya, Xev, I really gotta consider leaving the U.S. permanently. Existing among these folks--including the guy using the library terminal next to me in order to find a sex partner (what's that on the keyboard) and the guy on the other side of me who can't stop shouting into his phone--is really putting a downer on my regard for humanity.
Of course, a few months in the UK would slaughter the Mark Steel-inspired sense of humor I have about the Brits, and time among the Irish would probably only revitalize my hostility toward Christianity. Don't get me wrong; I think it's cool they're willing to elect a female president, but I have a daughter. How could I possibly reduce her social status in an aesthetic trade and look at myself in the mirror afterward?
Uh-oh. Sorry. I'm digressing.
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This is a bit off-topic, but Woody Allen did not have sex with his daughter. He had sex with the daughter of the woman he was dating (Mia Farrow). Farrow and Allen weren’t married, and Farrow’s daughter was 22 at the time. Definitely sleazy, but the woman was an adult and not related to him in any way.
Tiassa:
FIxed that for you.
Childishness aside, it doesn't really matter.
People are difficult anywhere you go, I think. I personally would choose Amsterdam: at least the ready supply of hashish and MDMA would mediate it.
I didn't follow on the "aesthetic trade" bit, but beyond the issue of abortion, I don't see Ireland as worse than the US in terms of gender politics.
Anyways, I think this topic is dead.
FIxed that for you.
Childishness aside, it doesn't really matter.
People are difficult anywhere you go, I think. I personally would choose Amsterdam: at least the ready supply of hashish and MDMA would mediate it.
I didn't follow on the "aesthetic trade" bit, but beyond the issue of abortion, I don't see Ireland as worse than the US in terms of gender politics.
Anyways, I think this topic is dead.
Xev said:
Good call. There's a place, I think near Haarlem, that resembles what we would consider "Hippie Central". Don't know much about it, though. Looked just a touch squalid for my taste, but what's two minutes' exposure via TV worth these days?
On "aesthetic trade": I would be trading one set of aesthetics for another I found more appealing; it's not worth the reduction of status.
Fair point. I'll leave it to recover its original purpose.