You don't measure time.
You observe change.
You already have an arbitrary clock which gives you a day.
Divide it into smaller portions.
The change you observed took up such and such a percentage of the day.
Humpty Dumpty speaks
Does time exist?
- Thread starter Asexperia
- Start date
- Status
You don't measure time.
You observe change.
You already have an arbitrary clock which gives you a day.
Divide it into smaller portions.
The change you observed took up such and such a percentage of the day.
Humpty Dumpty speaks
My instant answer is that I would measure time the same way as under any circumstances as I am unable to relate to the proposition as meaningful.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean_invariance
Your claim (on behalf of a beach) appears to be that you can tell whether or not it is moving. You suggest special rules apply when (for example) beaches are not moving.
I would suggest a test that measures the rate of change of time (how fast watches tick) in various directions. Clearly the faster a watch ticks the faster it is heading away from a beach and the slower it ticks the closer it is to the same (zero) velocity as a beach. By triangulation we could rapidly home in on zero velocity.
Lets just use your example .
No watchs , nothing but strickly your example .
So no movement at all .
Now give me a measure of time .
Are you saying simply because you are unable to measure time passing/flowing, that it ceases to happen?
Even in Einstein's post CC GR that he fudged to maintain a static universe, [because it was the belief of the day] still has time.
Are you saying simply because you are unable to measure time passing/flowing, that it ceases to happen?
Even in Einstein's post CC GR that he fudged to maintain a static universe, [because it was the belief of the day] still has time.
Yes, time ceases to happen . because nothing is moving .
Einstein's static Universe has nothing to with my point .
Stick with the original example by confused2.
Rubbish and of course it has everything to do with the static universe.
I just had a shower and left my watch in the bathroom. Time didn't stop!
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
You posit something that is impossible; you will naturally make faulty deductions.
There is no such thing as a universe - or any part thereof - that does not change.
Matter moves. It cannot not move. Energy moves at the speed of light.
There is no such thing as a universe devoid of matter and energy.
I'm sitting on the beach with ol Pyaggi scratching right angle triangles in the sand.
Didn't see the bus. Didn't feel the beach move.
Where in time am I?
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
This question in poorly-formed. It makes an unfounded assumption that one can define a spatial location within time.
Of course .
But to make my point about the essence of time , I gave an example of a thought experiment .
To still movement , to the absolute , stillness , means no movement . Hence no time .
Memo to self:- Must take time to put in Mr Poe.
I don't remember the exact details of the spatial location (might have been a hospital) within time (I was being born, hence the shaky memory) but the general area was London.
Mr Humpty Dumpty has arrived.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
The thought experiment is invalid.
One can fictionalize and hand wave certain non-critical elements to facilitate a thought experiment, but one cannot fictionalize critical elements., such as the fundamentals of our universe.
Your TE is comparable to "what if I accelrated my rocketship to the speed of light. What would I see?"
The answer is fairies. You would see fairies. Or unicorns.
So, if you propose a part of the universe where there is no matter and no energy then what will exist there is fairies. It is as valid as any other answer.
My thought experiment is not invalid .
My thought experiment shows that without object(s) movement there is no possiblity of measuring movement , hence no time . makes time clearer .
Therefore the fact that objects move or have displacement in space means NOW , you can measure this movement by any object .
In the bigger picture , being outside of the Universe , one can see , picture the Universe as all things moving at the same moment as everything else in the Universe , at the same moment .
Again that is crazy and I'm beyond understanding how you can believe it.
On second thoughts
It is not only invalid, it is crazy as I just said.
Even crazier then Aliens having nuclear games on Mars!
It is not only invalid, it is crazy as I just said.
Even crazier then Aliens having nuclear games on Mars!
How is my thought experiment invalid ?
Do you understand the thought experiment ?
If I have a devoid empty space , how does one measure time ?
ForrestDean
Registered Senior Member
Anyone ever watched the TV series Star Trek: The Next Generation? I never really watched the show but I've seen a few episodes. There were a few episodes where they would be in what was called the holodeck if I remember the name correctly. But it was a virtual reality environment where they could interact with the characters and surroundings. They could actually see, touch, hear, taste, and smell everything in this simulation. But it can't be an illusion. The environment and the characters within the simulation must be real and must exist because like time they can experience it, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoetrope
Exactly.
I agree.
I agree. Which is an aspect of the Universal Law of Cause and Effect.
The "rate of change" gives the idea of time. If change is real, rate of change is real; so is the experience of this illusion of time.
Given the nature of this reality, there is no doubt we experience a series of ongoing sequential, linear events that we measure with a tool we created and labeled as time. It's just a label we use to make sense of the reality we are currently experiencing. I am not aware of any invisible force that forcibly pushes us along some timeline.
You said, "To still movement , to the absolute , stillness , means no movement . Hence no time ". Either way it is invalid, for the reasons that have already been pointed out to you.
Because I want to sit in the dark with no watch to measure time, or sit/stand/float anywhere in the universe/spacetime, does not mean time will stop. Time had its beginning at the BB 13.87 billion years ago, and it is and always will keep moving foward, even in the unlikely event of the universe collapsing back on itself, at least up to the stage that existed before the BB banged.
Oh the good old BB.
Time and the BB.
Time was introduced by Einstein to make his equations work .
Ignorance is bliss with you river
The BB was first theorised and evidenced by Le-Maitre and then Hubble with the observed expansion.
Of course none of that fits with someone like yourself, that likes to pretent he is some sort of thinker or researcher and actually neither.
- Status