Does Distance exist without time?

[Prince_James]

Quantum Heraclitus:

with regards to our cartesian space what would stop something from switching locations with in the grid with out transiting or traveling? [ given that there is nothing to travel through]

To give a crude analogy: The Cartesian Grid is like a train on the tracks. One cannot skip ahead, but must progress smoothly alone. One cannot "magic" from one point to another that are not connecting, just as a train cannot go from London to Pyongyang on the Trans-Siberian Railway in a second.

there is a principle : I call the "AT" principle which is distinct from the "TO" principle.

To go TO somewhere as distinct to appear AT somewhere.

Explain?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Quantum Heraclitus:



To give a crude analogy: The Cartesian Grid is like a train on the tracks. One cannot skip ahead, but must progress smoothly alone. One cannot "magic" from one point to another that are not connecting, just as a train cannot go from London to Pyongyang on the Trans-Siberian Railway in a second.



Explain?

I'll try to draw using font linea style...

we have in the middle our volume of space :

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[....................................]xxxxxxxxxxxxx]

we place an object of mass in it:
[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[..........................m........]xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We then using the AT principle change its location [ to the left ]
[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[..........m..................................]xxxxxxxxxxxx]
It's relative location has changed but it hasn't moved.
but because space is nothing it hasn't moved either as there is nothing to move.
In a vacant cartesian grid we would see no change and the change we think has occurred is imaginary.

However if we superimpose a 4 dimensional universe of mass over the top of our grid we can now see that the change has occurred and is no longer imaginary because we have other mass to relate to.
so effectively our object of mass is every where there is vacant space. Just a matter of defining exactly where it should be in 4 dimensional space in a universe of mass and matter. [ which is why I tend to go with zero dimensionality rather than infinte...]

 

[Prince_James]

Quantum Heraclitus:

It's relative location has changed but it hasn't moved.
but because space is nothing it hasn't moved either as there is nothing to move.
In a vacant cartesian grid we would see no change and the change we think has occurred is imaginary.

However if we superimpose a 4 dimensional universe of mass over the top of our grid we can now see that the change has occurred and is no longer imaginary because we have other mass to relate to.

Ah, there is a problem: It's Cartesian coordinates changed and did not change by progressive movement.

It went from say...9 2 7 to 1 3 4 without going through everything else it needs to do to get to there.

We might not be able to see the change, but from the relation of the whole grid (infinite though it is) it has changed.

I hold that this is impossible, because it violates the integrity of the spatial extension. This implies gaps which are not there.

It would be a lot easier to see the movement in relation to mass, but coordinate wise, we can also see it and must rule it out.

That is to say, there is nothing about the absence of mass that should allow for such teleporting, which it amounts to.

 

[Reiku]

interesting..the accumulation of over 5 thousand years of philosophical endeavour....now conjoining with modern science... to present a complete picture of life.

In the process of writing my book "The Ohysics of God" I found that discussing in too much detail tended to drive people quite crazy as certain truths have profound effects on those not adequately prepared for them. In Yogic terms this is considered as unwanted or unprepared awakenings that cause great confusion and usually paranoia. The book s it stands is unfinished and unpuboished as it feels to dangerous to the pysch to proceed at the moment.
So I tend not to discuss anything that may trigger serious episodes. With a few exceptions when teh shit really has to hit the fan like recently [ referring to the thread in pseudo science. regarding quantum entanglement use for mind control etc...]

I have learnt I guess the hard way as you no doubt are also in some way finding that shoving truths, even accidently down peoples throats can have devistating effects. Poeple love their beliefs which is why they defend them so vigourously...it is tied in with self esteem and ego and it takes a very brave man to allow him self to be vulnerable to belief changes.
Some persons on this board are that courageous some are not.

To put a belief aside even for just a moment is to big a task for some...

So whilst i tend to concur with your interesting thoughts I await further research and development before commenting too heavilly.

I bet we will have a while to wait...

 

[Quantum Quack]

confusing hey?

 

[Reiku]

More annoying really.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Quantum Heraclitus:



Ah, there is a problem: It's Cartesian coordinates changed and did not change by progressive movement.

It went from say...9 2 7 to 1 3 4 without going through everything else it needs to do to get to there.

We might not be able to see the change, but from the relation of the whole grid (infinite though it is) it has changed.

I hold that this is impossible, because it violates the integrity of the spatial extension. This implies gaps which are not there.

It would be a lot easier to see the movement in relation to mass, but coordinate wise, we can also see it and must rule it out.

That is to say, there is nothing about the absence of mass that should allow for such teleporting, which it amounts to.

well then we must disagree as I fail to see why nothing vacant space should be given a grid of co-ordinates or anything of that nature.

I see no co-ordinates in a vacuum and would have to say that a grid system is merely a mental conveniance.

 

[Quantum Quack]

besides the vacant space has no human to give it a grid system

 

[Prince_James]

Quantum Heraclitus:

well then we must disagree as I fail to see why nothing vacant space should be given a grid of co-ordinates or anything of that nature.

Well, you do admit that there is a difference between this matterless vacuum and a gulf of nothingness, yes?

That is to say, you recognize that the difference between a jelly doughnut and a regular doughnut is that a regular doughnut has a hole of "matterless vacuum" and a jelly doughnut has a hole of "nothingness" (therefore no hole).

besides the vacant space has no human to give it a grid system

It is an objective feature of space, rather than a human creation. In essence: I am claiming that there is a physical/metaphysical analogue to what we would describe as basically a Cartesian grid.

 

[Reiku]

James

But the objective feature of space, is never ever observed, and it arises somehow as a subjective feature of consciousness instead.

This is just logic concerning the Observer-Effect of QM.

 

[Reiku]

The reason why, is because the world we literally ''see as out there,'' isn't really ''out there'' at all. Its all ''in here'', and that seems to be the only reality at large.

 

[Reiku]

Or atleast, from our frames of reference. But it turns out that space and time has details only a mind can operate; its like an astronaut at the control functions of his ship. Without the mind, these functions, and attributes of spacetime are no longer observed, or defined, or even remotely remembered. It looses all reference to the one thing that gave it some meaning: The Observer.

 

[Prince_James]

Reiku:

But the objective feature of space, is never ever observed, and it arises somehow as a subjective feature of consciousness instead.

This is just logic concerning the Observer-Effect of QM.

Observation has nothing to do with consciousness. Observers can be a wiretap, as shown by quantun encryption. It is a bad word to use "observation".

Furthermore, I am a Bohmian. I do not recognize any "observer effect" on the wavefunction collapse as there is no wavefunction collapse in Bohmian mechanics. Rather, there is a particle and a pilot wave.

 

[Reiku]

Not when actual memory is concerned, and this was the way i was using the model. The observer has the ability to remember focal and temporal events whilst an atomic particle cannot. There must be now a distinction that there is still something unique about the knowledge of an observer that is conscious, rather than dead...

 

[Reiku]

And, if i didn't take camp with Copenhagen, i'd be a Bohmian enthusiast too. I like the idea that everything is predetermined at big bang.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Quantum Heraclitus:



Well, you do admit that there is a difference between this matterless vacuum and a gulf of nothingness, yes?

That is to say, you recognize that the difference between a jelly doughnut and a regular doughnut is that a regular doughnut has a hole of "matterless vacuum" and a jelly doughnut has a hole of "nothingness" (therefore no hole).



It is an objective feature of space, rather than a human creation. In essence: I am claiming that there is a physical/metaphysical analogue to what we would describe as basically a Cartesian grid.

Objective faetures require objective evidence PJ. I see no evidence of a cartesian grid unless you would care to show me some.

Any ways,
The whole thing is that this can never be proved until the interconnectedness of the human mind is proved via the telapthic trials envisaged.

If telepathic reality can be evidenced [ which most people would say is unlikely] then the use of zero dimensionalism can be proved. As this is the only physical way minds of individuals universally can be connected simultaneously.
Using zero dimesionalism means that when you are unconscious and asleep or on an operating table etc etc [totally unconscious ] you are sharing the same unconsciousness as every one else does.That unconsciousness is the zero point dimensional that I have been referring to.

So to prove zero point theory requires hard evidence of that interconnectedness such that telepathy would show.

So far this thread has shown that there is no reason in phsyics to disqualify zero point theory in fact there is ample evidence to suggest it's validity [ re: entanglement and tunneling and even SRTs system of space time.
The reason we have any constants universally at all is because the entire universes substances share one thing in common and that is zero point dimensionalism and this I intend to prove soon enough.
ever wondered why the universe has order and not chaos? And why order is a necessary evolution and not just a chance occurance?
One constant in a see of infinite variables given enough time will bring about order out of chaos and that constant is simply zero, immutable and intractible.

 

[Prince_James]

Reiku:

Not when actual memory is concerned, and this was the way i was using the model. The observer has the ability to remember focal and temporal events whilst an atomic particle cannot. There must be now a distinction that there is still something unique about the knowledge of an observer that is conscious, rather than dead...

I cannot see where that would be relevant to the physics of particles. It is relevant to the experience of the human observers, but not to the physics of the particles. The particles do not interact with memory. And even if they do not "remember", that is irrelevant to their movements, as they are following causality.

 

[Prince_James]

Quantum Heraclitus:

Objective faetures require objective evidence PJ. I see no evidence of a cartesian grid unless you would care to show me some.

Okay, here's some proof:

Let's talk about Ideal Doughnuts. One is regular, one is jelly. Let's call them REgular and Jelly for ease.

Regular has a hole of "matterless vacuum" inside. Jelly has a hole of "nothingness" inside.

Now suppose there were a doughnut loving man.. And also suppose that the doughnuts have the same mass and same shape except for their difference. How big of a grip must one man make to accomodate one doughnut from the top (open palm) compared to the other?

As there is one hole which is substantial (matterless vacuum) I would contend that Regular must be grasped with a more widely extended hand than Jelly (which has no hole - as it is a hole of nothingness).

Accordingly, we can speak of a Cartesian grid of expansion.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Quantum Heraclitus:



Okay, here's some proof:

Let's talk about Ideal Doughnuts. One is regular, one is jelly. Let's call them REgular and Jelly for ease.

Regular has a hole of "matterless vacuum" inside. Jelly has a hole of "nothingness" inside.

Now suppose there were a doughnut loving man.. And also suppose that the doughnuts have the same mass and same shape except for their difference. How big of a grip must one man make to accomodate one doughnut from the top (open palm) compared to the other?

As there is one hole which is substantial (matterless vacuum) I would contend that Regular must be grasped with a more widely extended hand than Jelly (which has no hole - as it is a hole of nothingness).

Accordingly, we can speak of a Cartesian grid of expansion.

ahh the epistemology of Homer Simpson comes to mind... evidence of a cartesion grid between Moon and Earth reduced to our humble ahhhhhhh donnut! yummy!
Sorry PJ but need physical evidence and not analogy of a donut. You should know better! Sheesh!

 

[Prince_James]

If telepathic reality can be evidenced [ which most people woudl say is unlikely] then the use of zero dimensionalism can be proved. As this is the only physical way minds of individuals universally can be connected simultaneously.
Using zero dimesionalism means that when you are unconscious and asleep of on an operating table etc etc [totally unconscious ] you are sharing the same unconsciousness as every one else does.That unconsciousness is the zero point dimensional that I have been referring to.

Can you explain why this would be so?

So far this thread has shown that there is no reason in phsyics to disqualify zero point theory in fact there is ample evidence to suggest it's validity [ re: entanglement and tunneling and even SRTs system of space time.

I disagree based on what we discussed before, regarding analytic analogues in entanglement. Also, tunneling implies 4 dimensions (space folded into itself on a 4th dimension which makes sense with gravity warping things which implies a space for it to be warped in).

The reason we have any constants universally at all is because the entire universes substances share one thing in common and that is zero point dimensionalism and this I intend to prove soon enough.

I can't wait!

ever wondered why the universe has order and not chaos? And why order is a necessary evolution and not just a chance occurance?

Yes. I affirm that chaos is irrational. For chaos to be, it must not be, for to be is a symptom of order...