I like mudslides...
Does capitalism work?
- Thread starter lixluke
- Start date
What, did you pay someone for it?
madanthonywayne said:
Capitalism is based on a selection procedure directed by environmental influences on the outcome of a random process?
This is supposed to be similar to:
madanthonywayne said:
It seems to me that evolution and capitalism have nothing in common.
Because if this is all there is too it:
madanthonywayne said:
Then you can just as well compare capitalism to the formation of a solar system.
It is just as shallow as a comparison.
Evolution is inefficient. Millions die before a good trait emerges or is passed on. There is nothing efficient about evolution except that it works on a grand scale. A grand scale of butchery. A grand scale of time.
Moreover, you obviously you fail to see that capitalism is very controlled. Free market merely means enforced market. The Countries on top of the capitalist pyramide decide how the 'free' market is run. Cuba isn't allowed to trade with America. China can't dump his goods on the American market. Oil has be traded in Dollars. There is absolutely nothing free in capitalism. It is all highly regulated by a smalle elite group.
Put capitalism in charge and you get a few rich people and a large group of even poorer people. Did you really think the rich in the USA could lead their current lifestyle without the poor in the entire world?
Cold facts show that if the market economy is under stricter control of the government poverty decreases. Compare the US to the social market economies of western and norhern Europe.
You are spewing nothing but air.
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It would be nice if all you dumbasses were smart enough to listen to the wisdom provided by the elders in this thread.
*sigh*
Thank you, Fraggle and Dinosaur, for excellent, interesting and well stated posts that make a ton of sense even.
I particularly enjoyed your analysis and critism of corporations, Fraggle. Awesome stuff and it seems right on the money to me.
I wish I had something to add. Instead I'll just read your posts again and try to learn something. Great posts guys, thank you.
*sigh*
Thank you, Fraggle and Dinosaur, for excellent, interesting and well stated posts that make a ton of sense even.
I particularly enjoyed your analysis and critism of corporations, Fraggle. Awesome stuff and it seems right on the money to me.
I wish I had something to add. Instead I'll just read your posts again and try to learn something. Great posts guys, thank you.
Well, I have something to add...
And it is about the corporations...
http://dieoff.org/page3
"NOWADAYS, EVERYONE KNOWS that corporations control our political system and subjugate our citizens. But before the Civil War of 1861, citizens controlled the corporations. Up to that time, corporations were chartered for a specific limited purpose (for example, building a toll road or canal) and for a specific, limited period of time (usually 20 or 30 years).
Each corporation was chartered to achieve a specific social goal that a legislature decided was in the public interest. At the end of the corporation's life time, its assets were distributed among the shareholders and the corporation ceased to exist. The number of owners was limited by the charter; the amount of capital they could aggregate was also limited. The owners were personally responsible for any liabilities or debts the company incurred, including wages owed to workers. Often profits were specifically limited in the charter. Corporations were not established merely to "make a profit."
Early Americans feared corporations as a threat to democracy and freedom. They feared that the owners (shareholders) would amass great wealth, control jobs and production, buy the newspapers, dominate the courts and control elections (one-dollar-one-vote).
After the Civil War, during the 1870s and 1880s, owners and managers of corporations pressed relentlessly to expand their powers, and the courts gave them what they wanted. Perhaps the most important change occurred when the U.S. Supreme Court granted corporations the full constitutional protections of individual citizens. Congress had written the 14th Amendment to protect the rights of freed slaves, but in an 1886 decision (Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad) this was expanded when the courts declared that no state shall deprive a corporation ". . . of life, liberty or property without due process of law."
"
Impressive, eh? Keep reading...
"Today, our law and culture concede our sovereignty to corporations. So do most of our own citizen organizations dedicated to justice and environmental protection and worker rights and human rights."
...
"This is backwards. The reason corporations are so dominant and so destructive today is that a century ago corporations took rights and powers away from the people. For example, corporations made themselves into persons under the law BEFORE most human beings had won their civil and political rights. Corporations' 'right to manage' and 'free speech' are currently safeguarded by the US Constitution, thanks to legal doctrines concocted by the appointed judges of the federal judiciary."
...
"Korten is not a left-winger backed by a radical tradition. He is very much a product of the establishment-Harvard Graduate Business School, the Ford Foundation, USAID. But over the course of 30 years working in different parts of world he has managed to keep his eyes and his mind open. His verdict on what the free market and its overlords-the multinational corporations-are doing to the world is unambivalent. We are, he says, suffering from a threefold human crisis: the deepening of poverty, social disintegration and environmental destruction. At the heart of this crisis is the tyrannical dominance of corporations. Unaccountable, polluting and driven by a blinkered addiction to economic growth, they serve the interests of a very small international elite and are harming the rest of us. "
And it is about the corporations...
http://dieoff.org/page3
"NOWADAYS, EVERYONE KNOWS that corporations control our political system and subjugate our citizens. But before the Civil War of 1861, citizens controlled the corporations. Up to that time, corporations were chartered for a specific limited purpose (for example, building a toll road or canal) and for a specific, limited period of time (usually 20 or 30 years).
Each corporation was chartered to achieve a specific social goal that a legislature decided was in the public interest. At the end of the corporation's life time, its assets were distributed among the shareholders and the corporation ceased to exist. The number of owners was limited by the charter; the amount of capital they could aggregate was also limited. The owners were personally responsible for any liabilities or debts the company incurred, including wages owed to workers. Often profits were specifically limited in the charter. Corporations were not established merely to "make a profit."
Early Americans feared corporations as a threat to democracy and freedom. They feared that the owners (shareholders) would amass great wealth, control jobs and production, buy the newspapers, dominate the courts and control elections (one-dollar-one-vote).
After the Civil War, during the 1870s and 1880s, owners and managers of corporations pressed relentlessly to expand their powers, and the courts gave them what they wanted. Perhaps the most important change occurred when the U.S. Supreme Court granted corporations the full constitutional protections of individual citizens. Congress had written the 14th Amendment to protect the rights of freed slaves, but in an 1886 decision (Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad) this was expanded when the courts declared that no state shall deprive a corporation ". . . of life, liberty or property without due process of law."
"
Impressive, eh? Keep reading...
"Today, our law and culture concede our sovereignty to corporations. So do most of our own citizen organizations dedicated to justice and environmental protection and worker rights and human rights."
...
"This is backwards. The reason corporations are so dominant and so destructive today is that a century ago corporations took rights and powers away from the people. For example, corporations made themselves into persons under the law BEFORE most human beings had won their civil and political rights. Corporations' 'right to manage' and 'free speech' are currently safeguarded by the US Constitution, thanks to legal doctrines concocted by the appointed judges of the federal judiciary."
...
"Korten is not a left-winger backed by a radical tradition. He is very much a product of the establishment-Harvard Graduate Business School, the Ford Foundation, USAID. But over the course of 30 years working in different parts of world he has managed to keep his eyes and his mind open. His verdict on what the free market and its overlords-the multinational corporations-are doing to the world is unambivalent. We are, he says, suffering from a threefold human crisis: the deepening of poverty, social disintegration and environmental destruction. At the heart of this crisis is the tyrannical dominance of corporations. Unaccountable, polluting and driven by a blinkered addiction to economic growth, they serve the interests of a very small international elite and are harming the rest of us. "
Todays highlights on capitalism.
Capitalism:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5197082.stm
Someone becomes the richest man in the world by overcharging the poor.
This man then decides what is good for society. He donates your money to his charity.
Long live the king.
capitalism:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5195460.stm
Filth is ok as long as money can be made.
Capitalism:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5197082.stm
Someone becomes the richest man in the world by overcharging the poor.
This man then decides what is good for society. He donates your money to his charity.
Long live the king.
capitalism:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5195460.stm
Filth is ok as long as money can be made.
How interesting.
Us poor folks also make the oil companies rich by buying gas for our cars.
It really is tough going barefoot and not eating to support our addiction to owning a car, computer, washing machine, TV, et cetera.
Gee, how I envy those feudal serfs who had such a wonderful life before the robber barons came along and forced us into the wage slavery of the 20th & 21st centuries.
All we poor folks with computers made Gates wealthy while we starve due to spending our money on computers and Windows Operating systems.
Us poor folks also make the oil companies rich by buying gas for our cars.
It really is tough going barefoot and not eating to support our addiction to owning a car, computer, washing machine, TV, et cetera.
Gee, how I envy those feudal serfs who had such a wonderful life before the robber barons came along and forced us into the wage slavery of the 20th & 21st centuries.
Dinosaur said:
Rich and poor are relative. That's how I used it.
Did you have a point otherwise?
I have studied and participated in various experimental economies that started out very well, and fell terribly. This was a result of a few peolple who really knew what they were doing, and managing to syphon money out of the economy into their own holdings. This is what capitalism is all about. Syphoning money from the economy into your pockets. What happened as a result of what they were doing was that currency values started dropping drasticly.
The only result of the experiment was that the economic foundation was flawed because in the end may people were losing money, and nobody in their right mind wanted to invest in declining currency values.
There is only one rule of capitalism in the real world. The poor pay so that the rich can live lucrative lifestyles for free.
The only result of the experiment was that the economic foundation was flawed because in the end may people were losing money, and nobody in their right mind wanted to invest in declining currency values.
There is only one rule of capitalism in the real world. The poor pay so that the rich can live lucrative lifestyles for free.
Government and world leaders just need to make housing totally available and free, that will be the best economy ever. The government has the capacity to build several housing facilities and make it free to every citizen, except of cause for utilities and bills. Real estate or Feudalism is the oldest form of economy, it has always been a cushion for the government, its the only business where you don't need to sit back and hope, so many government officials use it too often. Housing is a fundamental human need and any country that has less than 80% free housing isn't a first world country as far as I am concerned. With all our technological advancements we should have taken care of that problem by now and moved on.
The poor pay so that the rich can live in huge extravagant houses for free.
It is easy to feed and house everybody, but they refrain from doing so in order to keep everybody desperate.
If people were not desperate, nobody would do the labor that keeps the rich happy, and the rich would not be able to live as extravegant as they do.
Therefore, they ensure the poor are desperate and deprived of the fruits of their own labors.
It is easy to feed and house everybody, but they refrain from doing so in order to keep everybody desperate.
If people were not desperate, nobody would do the labor that keeps the rich happy, and the rich would not be able to live as extravegant as they do.
Therefore, they ensure the poor are desperate and deprived of the fruits of their own labors.
The following looks like some sort of bulls**t to me.
Let us discuss the real world.
Experimental economies? Some sort of Academic Ivory Tower nonsense? Perhaps a computer simulation which was designed to favor the views of the programmers? How do you run an experimental economy which realistically simulates a real economy with millions of people and thousands of businesses as well as a government bureaucracy and a few other nations?
Let us discuss the real world.
Yes we certainly can. The purpose of the institution is to serve the individual. As we learn and understand more, we can adjust and improve the methods at which the institution operates.
Capitalism is infinitely flawed. Not just because it is an institution that does the opposite of serving the individual, but because it does not allow for improvement.
An effective economic system is one that is periodically reviewed and improved with the ultimate purpose in alignment with the objective of serving the individual.
Hogwash!"
Go get a life.
Capitalism is infinitely flawed. Not just because it is an institution that does the opposite of serving the individual, but because it does not allow for improvement.
An effective economic system is one that is periodically reviewed and improved with the ultimate purpose in alignment with the objective of serving the individual.
"Experimental economies?Dinosaur said:
Hogwash!"
Go get a life.
dixonmassey
Valued Senior Member
wesmorris said:
Wes, I come with a slogan for you - "examined life is NOT worth of living". It fits you so well.
