Do they really a chosen nation?

[Chris63]

I red a news yesterday, that some jewish organization wants from polish Catholic Church to change the wording of some prayers, because the prayers suggest that Jews were a chosen nation in the past and they are not a chosen nation at now. I’m not a Catholic, I’m not even a Christian, but such a jew's statement surprise me a lot – why it’s so important to them to highlight that superiority everywhere? Is this superiority real?
I wrote similar post some years ago, but I think it’s a good occasion to bring up the subject again.
When I read the bible in the part where God makes an agreement with Jews (Exodus, last chapters) I got impression, It’s a real agreement – describing in details what should be done by one side of that agreement (The Law). The other side of the agreement had got two duties: protect jewish nation and brink them to Palestine as their homeland. It wasn’t dead agreement – base on bible we can see that Jews got protection and got palestine. We can see the protection wasn’t unconditional – when Jews broke the Law – they lost Palestine and protection – they were slaved by Babylonians. And again – when Jews come back to the Law, they got back Palestine and protection.
The question is, what was the reason Jews again lost Palestine and protection? Where they broke the Law? I think the only information we can get, is what Jesus said about Jews.
When I read what He said the message is clear – the Law was only the preparation for further human development – preparation of behavior, habits etc. Jesus brought the true essence of the agreement between God and humans. That essence might came by Jews – chosen nation to help others to learn Gods love. The essence you may find in Matthew Chapter 5.
When I read New Testament the other thing is clear to me. Jews during those time become skilled to obey the Law treated only as collection of sentences, but they didn’t care the spirit of the Law. So the Law was in fact broken. In such a point of view it’s obvious why Jews lost Jerusalem, why they lost Palestine, why the lost protection.
Do they still a chosen nation? I don’t think so, but I think the have got potential to come back to the agreement with God. Just to review their approach to Jesus message. Maybe it could lead to agreement with Muslims?
I wrote I’m not Christian – that is true, but in the other hand I concern Jesus showed to humans best way of living.

Regards

Chris

 

[answers]

I heard Richard Caldwell Jnr from the big Baptist church in Spring Texas talk about this in one of his sermons I downloaded. He said the bible actually says that Israel is and will always be God's chosen people, however for a time they will be put aside, but towards the last days they will be taken back. I don't know which passage of scripture he was referring to, I think it was in His sermons on Amos, but he jumps around everywhere in the bible so it might be in a different part of the Bible.

There was an agreement between Israel and God. Israel would be His chosen nation, they would be the light shinning in the darkness. Then Jesus came, and Jesus said yes Israel will hear my message first because they are my chosen people, but because I desire salvation for all, I will spread my word even to the non-Jewish people. The Jews rejected Jesus, and so the non-Jewish people were told that to be saved accept Jesus's payment for your wrong-doings and you won't have to pay for them. The non-Jewish people embraced Christianity to a certain extent, the Bible says that one day the Jewish nation will embrace it too. There's lots of interesting stuff on this in the sermon which you can find at this link http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=32906204121

I think the sermon ID changes all the time so that link might not work, if not then try
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...n=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Richard^Caldwell^Jr.

and look for the sermon 'Israels Part' on the page.

Hope that helps

CyA

 

[alexb123]

I heard Richard Caldwell Jnr from the big Baptist church in Spring Texas talk about this in one of his sermons I downloaded. He said the bible actually says that Israel is and will always be God's chosen people, however for a time they will be put aside, but towards the last days they will be taken back. I don't know which passage of scripture he was referring to, I think it was in His sermons on Amos, but he jumps around everywhere in the bible so it might be in a different part of the Bible.

There was an agreement between Israel and God. Israel would be His chosen nation, they would be the light shinning in the darkness. Then Jesus came, and Jesus said yes Israel will hear my message first because they are my chosen people, but because I desire salvation for all, I will spread my word even to the non-Jewish people. The Jews rejected Jesus, and so the non-Jewish people were told that to be saved accept Jesus's payment for your wrong-doings and you won't have to pay for them. The non-Jewish people embraced Christianity to a certain extent, the Bible says that one day the Jewish nation will embrace it too. There's lots of interesting stuff on this in the sermon which you can find at this link http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=32906204121

I think the sermon ID changes all the time so that link might not work, if not then try
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...n=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Richard^Caldwell^Jr.

and look for the sermon 'Israels Part' on the page.

Hope that helps

CyA

Why would God have a chosen nation?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Why would God have a chosen nation?

*************
M*W: Very good question, Alexb123. If there were a God who created All, he wouldn't have chose any one group, specifically. That just doesn't make any sense. If there were a God, he would have made us equally chosen. But, then again, it wasn't God who chose, was it? It was the Jews who chose God. Since there is no God, the Jews chose a monotheistic God. That monotheistic God was originally the Sun. Jews and Muslims were originally sun-worshippers... then along came the Christians who worshipped their monotheistic God, the Sun. No matter which equation you calculate -- God is, was, and always be... the Sun. And, Jesus was the Son of the Sun of God. How verily convenient!!!

 

[Archie]

Chris, this whole matter of the 'chosen people' and such is rather complicated. Frankly, I can see why anyone not Jewish or Christian would have any interest in the matter.

However, one of the interesting questions - which eludes most folks even to ask - is "For what were they chosen?"

Answers has a grasp of it, Alex and the Medicine Woman have no inkling. But then, they don't give any credence to this whole matter of God anyway, so it's not surprizing.

And without wanting to challenge you on the matter, Chris, why do you even care?

 

[QuarkMoon]

However, one of the interesting questions - which eludes most folks even to ask - is "For what were they chosen?"

That question is irrelevent if we can't even agree on whether they are actually a chosen people.

 

[Archie]

Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it" -- Philip K. Dick --

I submit reality is also that which doesn't go away if you pretend it's not there.

QM, I'm trying to be polite; I realize I am rather abrasive at times. My only defense is I do not "...tolerate fools gladly..." - or hardly at all, truth be told. So, as gently as I can say this, your concurrence with the concept is not required.

 

[QuarkMoon]

I submit reality is also that which doesn't go away if you pretend it's not there.

Reality and religion are two very seperate ideas.

QM, I'm trying to be polite; I realize I am rather abrasive at times. My only defense is I do not "...tolerate fools gladly..." - or hardly at all, truth be told. So, as gently as I can say this, your concurrence with the concept is not required.

Don't be so defensive, my post had no harsh undertones to it. I'm discussing the topic of this thread, not your personal beliefs. And my concurrence is absolutely required, considering the idea of a "chosen people" is built off of a belief in scripture, and has no realistic backing.

So, again, the question you posed is irrelevent until we can establish that there are, in fact, a "chosen people".

 

[Archie]

And my concurrence is absolutely required...

Quark, have you had any counselling about this paranoia and folie de grandeur you harbor?

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but your denial of history or the status of Israel, then or now, does not change reality. The question is not irrelevent; your opinion - based on ignorance and prejudice - is irrelevent.

The topic of this thread is the concept of the chosen people; not your personal denials.

 

[QuarkMoon]

Quark, have you had any counselling about this paranoia and folie de grandeur you harbor?

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but your denial of history or the status of Israel, then or now, does not change reality. The question is not irrelevent; your opinion - based on ignorance and prejudice - is irrelevent.

The topic of this thread is the concept of the chosen people; not your personal denials.

Heh, my denial of an imaginary sense of speciality afforded to the Jews makes me delusional and paranoid? That makes perfect sense, and you seem to be taking my denial quite personally, which suggests that my denial holds some kind of significance to you?

And I have no prejudice against any religious groups, and the history you refer to is scripture, nothing more. There is no realistic backing for a chosen people, the belief is not based in reality, a concept you brought up earlier. Tell me, you have one person to your left and another person on your right. One lives his life based on a personal moral code and does not adhere to any religion, he does good deeds for personal fulfillment and lives his life without fear of what will happen after death. The other lives his life based on a book, he fears judgement so he believes in an obscure man who called himself the Son Of God for no reason other then to be in God's good graces, he prays to a deity he can niether see, understand, or interact with.

Which one is the delusional one, Archie? Which one is paranoid?

 

[Chris63]

Archie,

I was afraid, the conversation skills were extincted recently – nobody reading, nobody asking, but here is Archie, who manifest that my assumption is not true. Thank you Archie.

Why I care about the problem of Jewish supremacy over the rest? The answer is simple- because the story told in bible is a part of my subconscious like the most of white people on the world. The Christianity exist in Poland more than 1000 years. During that time, every generation coded the subconscious of next generation with more and more detailed scheme of approach to Jesus and Bible. So in the end – the code written in me has got hard basis. If I want to develop myself – become more free and independent I have to break the code and got the answers by myself.
There is the next reason of my interesting the matter also. I was true Christian many years ago. But I desperately wanted to get answers for my questions regarding some strange Jesus words and differences between Church’s lectures and my observations. You know what – I got the answers from Buddhism’s perspective. So as you can see some people may not be Christians nor Jews, but still be fascinated by Jesus.

There is the next your question: "For what were they chosen?"
I think the answer is strictly connected with subconscious coding described above.
The human beings, the human society is developing itself during millennia. If you can look on our history you can see how much our skills, living condition or moral level was improved within the time. But the effective changes being made very very slowly. I believe that some outer space civilization just made the experiment – to answer the question: is it possible to increase the speed of human’s develop? To try this – they had to use whole nation, not a single guy or small group. If they use small group the majority would prevail and dissolve the advanced ideas, so to spread over the world some advanced thoughts they had to use a nation – not very big because it would be hard to teach all of them to achieve the right level. So the first stage of the experiment was described in details in the Bible – Old Testament. The next stage should start with Jesus. His lecture was aimed to fill up the Law by Love and as complete solution brought to the world by Jewish nation - initially prepared to make such a mission. But unhappily the experiment was collapsed that time – They (Jews) didn’t recognized Him. The lecture was spread among the races not prepared for such advanced true – was limited to it’s caricature.
You know not every experiment is successful.

Regards

Chris