Do babies know who god is?

crazylemon

Registered Member
Babies are born with an instinct to know who their mother is and they respond to her even in early stages. Do you think that babies are born with the same instinct about god and as they grow older they learn to ask questions about what the meaning of life is and if god really exists?
 
Filter process

Babies are automatically tapped into life. We tend to look at the brain as somehow generative - that is, we see the brain as proactively engaging the Universe according to various methodologies, but I'm starting to think that the brain is largely a filter. As I tell Emma Grace when she looks self-satisfied and is babbling pleasantly at me: I wish I was smart enough to understand you child. I love to hear your voice, but I don't know what you're saying. I will have to teach her to limit the mode of her thoughts, to communicate according to conventional conformity, to classify the world in ever-smaller parts instead of what she does now, perceive according to natural need and environmental circumstance.

It's a trade-off, you see: We trade knowledge for the ability to distinguish knowledge.

By the time the baby knows to call it "God", the word "God" has ceased to have any useful meaning and slips into religious paradox; such is the nature of the filtering process.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Comparison

Hmm ... let's start someplace a little abstract and work back toward applicability: "Chinese Music" (Perdurabo). I point it out because there's a blatant analogy in there about the Chinese octave having five notes. In the West, the octave has ... 13 notes? ... in the chromatic scale, eight in a major, six in a minor .... And many cultures regularly employ quarter-tones, whereas classical Western music deals only in half-tones. So we see, using the West as the basis of our examination, that there are musical systems which are both broader and more precise than our own insofar as tone distinction is concerned.

When I was in fourth grade or thereabout, one of the first programs I ever wrote in BASIC (Atari 800) was a FOR/NEXT loop that generated a scale of sound according to the pitch distinctions between 0 and 255. Not all of the sounds that came out of the computer can be described in common notation. I remember a mark in the score that is just an arc coming off the note and falling away; on the trumpet we just droped pitch, scattering the keys almost randomly; we were taught to attempt to mark the major scale in the key of the piece, but it was unimportant with nine trumpets. We were all hitting actual notes on the way down that we can mark on a score. The trombones, though, fell off in a glissando that covers tones that are not recognized as standard musical notes, much as the FOR/NEXT loop.

What I'm getting at is that the sounds are there, but we only have notes for so many of them.

Likewise with "God". A child is born and there is nothing but its own development fettering its interaction with the environment. Despite the fact that memory isn't writing at that point, the child is building up a number of electrical and chemical associations. Even before the Pavlovian responses start, the context of that conditioning is being set. From there it becomes teaching the right patterns--essentially limitations.

We already know what the note B-flat sounds like. Somebody has to teach us to call it B-flat. Somebody has to teach us that A is the next note down, while we know that such an assertion is not true. As we develop labels for some things we know, other things get forgotten because they are consistently less relevant to experience. So as the child learns labels and classifications, "the rest" gets sort of forgotten.

A physical image to consider: paint one side of a latticework designed to cover a 100 square-foot wall. You're using less paint than if you were painting all 100 square feet of the wall.

We lose our ability to perceive much in order to begin functioning in the world. It's a trade-off.

A practical effect? Well, one of the secrets of the Beach Boys and their influence over pop music is that Brian Wilson often used a certain C-tuning that, I swear, you can't play a bad chord in. It's the weirdest thing; when you tune the guitar to this tuning, you don't have to actually know any chords. Put your fingers on the fretboard and strum; it will sound okay. About the only thing you can do is put two chords together that people find unaesthetic. The counterpoint is that pop music became very amazingly restricted in its composition, seeking only a few bases for sound. Grunge was successful in part because a lot of it returned to D tunings (Kim Thayil of Soundgarden has an insanely low C tuning that your average $600 guitar can't seem to hold on any strings). Grunge played on a guitar in open E doesn't sound right. Which is funny because most of the musicians I know make excuses for themselves when composing in D. "It's the songwriter's key," says one sheepishly. And it wasn't that long ago that Sting gave in and released a song (I don't know what it was called) with an Arabic vocalist who knew his quarter tones. At a hunger benefit in Seattle, Eddie Vedder in the height of Afghanistan-related paranoia, flew out the son of the late Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (I can't recall the son's exact name). A lot of the younger audience sort of chuckled when he gave them the stage, but they'd flown thirty-seven hours from Afghanistan and driven straight in from the airport, so people gave them enough respect. In the end, that younger audience that came to see Alanis Morisette and REM as well (skipped them both) were left with their jaws open. It was kind of cool to look around and see the number of people who, in all their lives, had never stopped to think of music outside the half-tones on their guitar or piano keyboard. "Ever try to score half-tones?" asks a friend of mine who formerly served as assistant to the conductor of Seattle's symphony.

In the end, he gave up classical music, and in the six years I've known him, I've never even seen the 'cello. But I'm told he still plays it from time to time, for his son. But the guy can't cope musically without his quarter-tones anymore.

And this is, in the end, one of the most apt analogies I've ever set out blindly after.

Think of it this way: How many times are you frustrated by an idea in your head that you can't quite explain even to yourself because you lack the words?

To borrow a literary version of it:
When I was twelve years old, the world was my magic lantern, and by its green spirit glow I saw the past, the present, and into the future. You probably did too, you just don't recall it. See, this is my opinion: we all start out knowing magic. We are boren with whirlwinds, forest fires, and comets inside of us. We are born able to sing to birds and read the clouds and see our destiny in gains of sand. But then we get the magic educated right out of our souls. We get it churched out, spanked out, washed out, and combed out. We get put on the straight and narrow and told to be responsible. Told to act our age. Told to grow up, for God's sake. And you know why we were told that? Because the people doing the telling were afraid of our wildness and youth, and because the magic we knew made them ashamed and sad of what tehy'd allowed to wither in themselves. (Robert R. McCammon, Boy's Life)
He's not entirely wrong. It's fiction, so you can take it in mythical form, as well. But he's so not entirely wrong that he is, in his context, almost absolutely correct.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Tiassa, there are 12 notes in an octave. There are 8 notes in each of the modes (Ionian being major, Aeolian being minor) including the next octave of the root note. However, there are scales with fewer notes (minor pentatonic being and example, and minor hexatonic being the one you stated).

On to the issue at hand. I don't think that babies are born with the awareness of god. They will learn about religion and things from the people they are around, and what they hear at school and such. If they were completely isolated from people at birth, or shortly thereafter, I don't think the child would know (or come to the conclusion that) god exists.

Basically, if the child wasn't introduced to religion, then thoughts or ideas pertaining to god wouldn't come to the child.
 
I don't think babies, or children, have any conception of a god until they have the concept explained to them. Whether they have any innate feeling of a higher power of some sort is debateable.
 
I don't think babies, or children, have any conception of a god until they have the concept explained to them. Whether they have any innate feeling of a higher power of some sort is debateable.
Exactly. As they acquire knowledge of the representation, they lose grasp of the essence of what it represents. Instead of the painted wall, it is the latticework, neat and organized, with empty spaces in between.

Of course, I remind that this comes from one who sees God not as a supernatural reality, but as a representation of what we do not or cannot know.

To reiterate an earlier point, because it is convenient here: It's a trade-off, you see: We trade knowledge for the ability to distinguish knowledge.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
as someone who remembers babyhood, my answer is an emphatic no. yes it is strange that i remember being a baby. quite vividly too. i think it's cause i was a very introspective child, always in private thought. i have random pictures in my brain of being in my house and seeing my family. i knew instinctively who my mother and father were and a vaguer but familiar feeling about my brothers. there was no concept of god whatsoever. i was taught about him as i got older after years of not understanding why we went to the crowded boring building once a week. i think at about 3 or 4 i asked my mom about god. i had just begun to understand that there was a higher being but i thought he made everything happen so she explained about free will and whatnot.
 
everything

everything is "supernatural" until we know why things occure, how quickly we accumulate knowledge relates to how mystical we view our world. Babies are NOT born with the innate sense of god, however the lack of knowledge causes all things not caused by "mommy" or "daddy" or other identified sources as possibly mystic. Some things occure just because, other effects may be rationalized by the child as being a supernatural act. Roman children for instance, were not born with the sense of god because they obviously were taught to believe in multiple gods, thor, mars, etc. Lack of knowledge = acceptance of mysticism, NOT the chirstian god or any other specific "god".
 
Of all the babies in the animal kingdom, none is more useless than the human baby
read here

But on the subject, of course babies have no idea who god is, thats why babies who die will spend eternity being tortured in the depths of hell, so will animals because they never accepted jesus as their saviour.
What were those babies and animals thinking?!
 
it seems as if some animals do have souls according to catholics and will go to heaven, or was it that they didn't have souls but just went to heaven...forgot...
 
for all new born animals including spuriousmonkeys (hey.. sp i mean all the human race:)) the god is their mother. btw, anyone, especially, evolutionaries, would mind explaining why all the new born animals, without teaching, correctly reach for the milk source..?
 
Originally posted by everneo
btw, anyone, especially, evolutionaries, would mind explaining why all the new born animals, without teaching, correctly reach for the milk source..?
The grace of god embodies the tits and the baby seeks his holiness with the 'grab n suck' technique.

But in reality, it is an instinct like anything else, not that big of a deal when you see what new born members of other species can do, the tiger shark will have about 30 babies, these babies will fight to the death within their mother's womb until only one is left, this sole survivor will then be concieved with the benefit of hardcore killing experience which will help it immensely in its solitary ocean life.
So you see, a baby reaching for a breast is nothing in comparison, but without instincts, nothing could survive.
 
yeah.. God ordains all the babies in the womb to suck only their mother's nipples.. later on certain human members deviate.. that is a different shit. never mind..

instinct is preprogrammed in the brain then..!
 
i've limited biology knowledge.. how do u explain this "no need to learn - get it free". any scientific explanation is there..
 
Instincts are probably the best indication of evolution in action today.
Instincts are the "species' memory" in a way, its linked to what makes evolution happen in each type of creature.
Its passed on genes, that "remember" the problems with- and what worked with- the species so far, these instincts won't change in your lifetime or probably even the human species' lifetime( maybe a little bit, make us mentally weaker on account of our relatively extremely comfortable lifestyles), but they have changed alot over the years as we moved locations and adapted to our surroundings and so on.
 
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