Describe what, in your opinion, is the best way to react to crime

Norsefire

Salam Shalom Salom
Registered Senior Member
My opinion as to how society should deal with crime falls under several categories, since crime is not just black and white.

Firstly, let me establish the broadest categories: how toprevent crime and how to react to crime after the event.

As to how to prevent crime, there are several ways of going about this. Apart from the obvious increasing police ability, we must also, as a society, not create criminals ourselves (as we unfortunately have a tendency to do); we must also gain an understanding of the criminal mind in order to rehabilitate and help people before they turn into murderers. Crime is as much psychological as it is physical.

Secondly, as to police, I think there should be two "types" of police: community police and paramilitary police.

Community police would be ground officers who are intimate and friendly and knowledgeable within the community they are charged with protecting. They may be dressed in casual clothes and are either unarmed or may carry a small sidearm. They help each other by communicating and, together with others who might be in patrol cars, give a community a sense of security.

The emphasis of these police isn't intrusion into other peoples' lives, but rather, just being casual on the street. They would also participate or help out locally.

Basically, to have these police as close and as local as possible with the common people. They wouldn't be heavily armed soldiers, though.

Also, encouraging the common people themselves to establish local and community watches and plans, etc

And then, the paramilitary police

These guys would not directly and actively patrol, but instead are responsible for responding to cases and apprehending wanted criminals. Their responsibility is more federal and nationalized, and also includes protecting the nation against things like criminal gangs, domestic terrorism, and serious murderers, etc

However, these guys, contrary to the "community" police, would be heavily armed, armored, and authorized to use deadly force if necessary. They would also have an intelligence network in order to ensure they are fully capable of carrying out their jobs.

They would also be authorized to carry out military operations against criminal organizations, etc
They would have also military-grade vehicles and weapons at their disposal if they find them necessary

Basically, the aim with these guys is to destroy crime at all cost, while trying not to interfere with the common people.

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As for after the event (how to prosecute criminals), I think we must also think logically here and not think of crime as "black and white"

Firstly, I classify crime under two main types: material and violent. Material crimes deal with crimes that deal with things such as robbery, fraud, counterfeiting, etc

I believe that in these cases, punishment is NOT the main goal; rather, rehabilitation is more important since in the end money can be repayed and the person can still have a chance of giving back.

Before I continue, firstly life sentences would be abolished because they are pointless, so any life sentences would be commuted to death sentences.

However in the case of material crimes, I think there should be NO life or death sentences. Instead, rehabilitation is the primary goal.

So let's say something reasonable, like a maximum sentence (depending on if it's very severe like bank robberies) of 15 years, minimum of 2

I do think that if the criminals show good behavior and are fit to rejoin, they may be paroled at any time. If however they show violent behavior and at the end of their sentence are still dangerous, they should be executed to be on the safe side.

However during their setences there should be an emphasis on rehabilitation, education, etc (since most thieves resort to crime because they can't do anything else)


Committing a "material" crime and a "violent" crime would obviously not be mutually exclusive and in such case you would be charged and sentenced on both counts (for instance, a thief who shoots someone during his robbery, would be tried with assault, attempted murder, and robbery, and probably breaking and entering if it's in the home) and would carry out their sentences consecutively (unless they are sentenced to death)

Also if the person seriously re-offends after carrying out his sentence, his next sentence would be commuted to the death penalty


Now, as for violent crimes, I will break them down into, what I believe, are the usual cases:

Firstly, for crimes out of cold blood (commited for pleasure, lack of emotion, or by sociopaths), the sentence would be execution, since

A) these people can not be rehabilitated
B) crimes out of cold blood are the sickest you can get, and execution is the appropriate punishment

And any crime of cold blood, whether murder, attempted murder, assault, rape, etc, would receive the death penalty

Rape, especially against children, would always receive the death penalty on first offense

For crimes of passion (done because of emotion), I still think they should be punished, and the death penalty would still be possible, but I think we should have an emphasis on anger management counseling, rehabilitation, as well as a lengthy prison sentence (say, 20 years to 40 years)

The reason being is that, in the end, we are only human and in some cases it is understandable that people act out of emotion (even though it's still wrong and should be discouraged)

As for the third type of crime IMO, which is military crime, I think they should all receive the death penalty, and these include:

treason
desertion
cowardice
disclosure of military intelligence

And things of that nature, naturally

Please comment and tell me how you think justice should be done
 
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If I were king.

1) There would be a very heavy burden of proof that one was guilty. Truly beyond a shadow of doubt as agreed by impartial juries. Maybe even two trails both requiring a guilty verdict using different judges, attorneys and juries.

2) The punishment for (any) first offense would be a stern talking to and a firm, "don't do it again".

3) The punishment for (any) second or third offense would be the same. Serious clincal evaluations would be performed at this point to rule out insanity.

4) The punishment for fourth offenses would be death via gang rape by silverback gorillas.

5) Also, everyone over 21 would be required by law to be trained in the proper use of hand guns and carry one at all times
 
Good work - that's pretty well thought-out and covers a lot of ground.:)

It needs a little tweaking here and there, though. One example is in the area of what you've labled (rightly) "material crime."

The problems with your proposal are twofold: first. it's not always possible to repay what was stolen. It often times runs into millions of dollars and most of that has been spent; second, rehabilitation is not possible in MANY cases. That's because the individual was usually driven by greed to commit the crimes in the first place and it's very often difficult - if not impossible - to correct that flaw in humans.
 
Good work - that's pretty well thought-out and covers a lot of ground.:)

It needs a little tweaking here and there, though. One example is in the area of what you've labled (rightly) "material crime."

The problems with your proposal are twofold: first. it's not always possible to repay what was stolen. It often times runs into millions of dollars and most of that has been spent; second, rehabilitation is not possible in MANY cases. That's because the individual was usually driven by greed to commit the crimes in the first place and it's very often difficult - if not impossible - to correct that flaw in humans.

In such a case, community service can be given and said person would owe debt to whatever entity or person he robbed

I think they can be educated and rehabilitated to control this greed.

Most thieves and such have low education, and so resort to crime, so a major emphasis should be on providing them with a degree and an education to make sure they are fit to rejoin society and be productive.


If they do re-offend, as I said, they'd be sentenced to death
 
That's pretty much how we already do it, Norsefire, thanks for reinventing the wheel. You did seem to forget the small step of a trial by a jury of your peers, but hey.
 
Depends on who commits it. If its a rich guy you kiss his arse, if its a poor sod, you step all over him.
 
That's pretty much how we already do it, Norsefire, thanks for reinventing the wheel. You did seem to forget the small step of a trial by a jury of your peers, but hey.

No it's not how we do it at all. Police are inefficient and prisons don't work, and we still give pointless life sentences to material criminals which otherwise could be rehabilitated and educated

Obviously also that would all be part of the court process
 
That's pretty much how we already do it, Norsefire, thanks for reinventing the wheel. You did seem to forget the small step of a trial by a jury of your peers, but hey.

No, he proposed some new changes in the process. And I think the trial was just assumed - we all know about 'innocent until proven guilty' - so there wasn't any need to describe THAT aspect of it. It wouldn't change one bit.
 
You could eliminate most if not all non-insanity induced crimes by eliminating poverty.
 
Republicans believe pretty much the same thing. Democrats tend to be more compassionate and lenient, so we have a system that is a comprimise between the two.
 
No, he proposed some new changes in the process. And I think the trial was just assumed - we all know about 'innocent until proven guilty' - so there wasn't any need to describe THAT aspect of it. It wouldn't change one bit.
Yes there are changes, and yes, I thought that would be assumed.

You could eliminate most if not all non-insanity induced crimes by eliminating poverty.

I agree, that is why we should not only, as I said, as a society not create the criminals ourselves, so therefore help to increase education and renovate communities, etc, but also rehabilitate and educate material offenders

Republicans believe pretty much the same thing. Democrats tend to be more compassionate and lenient, so we have a system that is a comprimise between the two.

A system that isn't working. As I said, it's not the same thing.

Also "leniency" depends; I think we should be "lenient" on first offenses for material crimes. On violent crimes out of cold blood we should show no mercy, however.
 
i would compleatly eliminate the "justice" system as it relates to indervidual CRIMINAL law and merge it into the mental health system. Eliminate punishment as a concept for criminal law and put the focus on rehabilitation compleatly. All "offenders" would be held at her majisties pleasure until a board of review (similar to the guardianship board) found them safe to be releaced. As for crimes against property (including assults in the proccess of robbery), the focus should be on WHY they were commited. was it because they were staving or was it because of a mental condition. If the former services should be put in place to address the situation, if the latter as above
 
i would compleatly eliminate the "justice" system as it relates to indervidual CRIMINAL law and merge it into the mental health system. Eliminate punishment as a concept for criminal law and put the focus on rehabilitation compleatly. All "offenders" would be held at her majisties pleasure until a board of review (similar to the guardianship board) found them safe to be releaced. As for crimes against property (including assults in the proccess of robbery), the focus should be on WHY they were commited. was it because they were staving or was it because of a mental condition. If the former services should be put in place to address the situation, if the latter as above
I agree with you only in the case of material criminals. I'm sorry, but I just don't think cold, violent offenders deserve this.
 
i would compleatly eliminate the "justice" system as it relates to indervidual CRIMINAL law and merge it into the mental health system. Eliminate punishment as a concept for criminal law and put the focus on rehabilitation compleatly. All "offenders" would be held at her majisties pleasure until a board of review (similar to the guardianship board) found them safe to be releaced. As for crimes against property (including assults in the proccess of robbery), the focus should be on WHY they were commited. was it because they were staving or was it because of a mental condition. If the former services should be put in place to address the situation, if the latter as above

Good idea but one that has already begun to be implemented in a backwards kind of way.

They are doing this already with sex offenders in many areas and calling it civil commitment, but only after the person has served their criminal sentence.

I consider this a constitutional violation but wouldn’t if they simply did a civil commitment for the start and didn’t sentence the person to time in prison. Then they could hold a person indefinitely without any pressure from complying with a sentence or a judges ruling.

This to me is very wrong as USA laws are already in place and should prevail that say if a Judge should have any indication a person is mentally ill or not fit to stand trial the judge should stop the proceeding and determine the defendants mental state of mind by a evaluation conducted by a mental health professional. This is rarely done in such sex offender cases when most sex offenders already clearly meet the text book definition of mentally disturbed or mentally ill.

There are so many flaws already in this sex offender treatment and evaluation system that abuses have already arisen by exposing therapist billing millions of dollars for evaluations that they (therapist’s) perform on inmates that they run through the system like an assembly line and until this stops corruption will erode such confidence in any fair handling of any offenders in such a psychological evaluation setting regardless of the crime.

I read a print media article about a prominent sex offender treatment therapist who is considered one of the country’s (USA) best experts on sex offenders; he even has a diagnostic testing system patented under his name that he has franchised out worldwide for other therapist to use to determine a person’s sexual interests. However the article exposed the majority of his patients (like 90%) he treated were court ordered to participate in his treatment program and to comply with his therapy modules or they were violated and returned to jail.

The article went on to explain how the therapist required all his patients to regularly take his patterned test as to see how a they were progressing, also all patients had to purchase books that the therapist had authored as the books were part of materials needed for treatment. The if that wasn’t enough the therapist also requires all his patients to regularly have a polygraph test conducted to see if they are not only complying with treatment but also not offending. Not taking the polygraph is then considered not complying with treatment directives and is reason to send the person back to jail.

Oh I forgot to mention the polygraphs are administered at his office by one of his staff members who was only recently certified to do such tests after it was announced they would be part of the therapy requirements.

The doctor was charging $250.00 per hour and requiring many patients to see him individually once per week and others either twice monthly or all patients a minimum of once per month but all patients on top of this were required to participate in weekly therapy at $150.00 a pop, with the Polygraph about $800.00, and his own test another $600.00, not to mention the other fees...

There is no link to this article because it was in print media and the fees I mentioned above I am only making a guess as I don’t actually remember the exact amount but they are close enough, but can you see the money this therapist is making on just one patent alone is substantial and questions such practices. To me this is a huge problem with the proposition of your proposal but if this kind of corruption is eliminated then the system might work.
 
ok some biases to lay out on the table. Firstly you have to rember im coming from a country where the mental health system (the health system in general actually) is paid for by tax payers. There is no cost to someone detained under section 13 (or is it 14) of the mental health act even for the cost of the ambulance to transport them. This is patually due to the fact that they dont have a choice they MUST comply and be transported so its unconsitutional (i THINK, bells might be able to difinitivly say for sure) that they be liable for the costs of that transport and treatment. Secondly (and this refers to all mental health cases) the ambulance service doesnt feel its fair to add further stress to someone who is already suffering huge amounts of stress (as evidenced by the fact that they are depressed, or suicidle or whatever) so all mental health cases come with no cost.

Lastly i will just point out that the system im proposing is NOTHING like what the US is currently using to detain sex offenders. Im talking about a system where the whole focus is on treating and RELEACING prisioners rather than on detaining them indefinitly. This was the previous aims of the mental health system but we have moved on since then.
 
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