Decoherence of Gravitational Waves

Reiku

Banned
Banned
On The Mysterious Disappearence of Gravitational Waves

A protons radius is near enough 10^-14cm...

(t=0 ~ E- oo >< 1.58316 x 10^-44 = 1.616 x 10^-33)

Simple here. At some, finite time, in the past (t=0 gave way for energy that is found to be proportional to an infinity which was conversely proportional within a Planck Time which was the same smallest compatible measurement of the Planck Length). The following equation will describe the estimated region in which this was allowed, the radius of a proton, found to be responsible of the release of energy and solid diffused energy that obey the law of p=mv.

(R- 10^-14cm- mp^2*=1.6726116 x 10^-27Kg)

* Proton rest mass (as shown with an equivalance with)

p=mv

where p is inversely proportional to to m, and so is v, so one can change the equations configurations,

(R- 10^-14cm- pv^2**=1.6726116 x 10^-27 kg)

Here the radius is proportional to the value of 10^-14cm again, which is inversely proportional to momentum multiplied by velocity raised to the power of two, which equals 1.67 x 10^-27kg

(Here, the rest mass is describing the baryons and the measurement of spacetime they came from which is something like the size of a proton.)

Now, we can say that due to the conservation of momentum, because one cannot have one configuration like this, without neglecting the equally proportionality of the invariant math, provided simply through the mechanism of p=mv:

(R- 10^-14cm- mp^2*=1.6726116 x 10^-27Kg)=(R- 10^-14cm- pv^2**=1.6726116 x 10^-27 kg) --------------- [1.A]

We can now put this into some easier notation, where R is radius, m is mass, p is momentum and v is velocity, and there values will be given as

R as itself and its value represented as a'
m for mass
p for momentum
(and both m and p's value is giving as -b')
and v is for velocity...

So we can make a neat configuration of equational beauty:

(R- a'- mp^2=-b'kg=R- a'- pv^2=-b') ----------------- [1.B]

And [1.B] is just a simpler mathematical configuration/equation of [1.A] - but like in most equations in physics, these really short notations to make things simpler, are actually usually quite hard, because they are themselves representative of configurants of two or more equations in one... In relativity, some shortened notations have several equational solutions bound into one equation. So, in my experience, the easiest way to learn the mathematics of physics, is to know the elongated equations, because they have no hidden agendas.

So let's see what [1.B] holds as a muti-configuration:

The variables a' and -b' are rotational coordinates in the conservation of momentum p with matter m and with velocity v and momentum p, as they must abide by the relativistic law of: p=mv - For virtual energy at this time, they will follow naturally:

E^2 = P^2c^2

And the real particles will abide by the relativistic rules of momentum and mass relation through”

E^2=M^2c^4+P^2c^2

Black Holes Predictions and Gravitational Waves

This will be for now, my small analysis of what would happen within the first moments of the universe. In theory, the very hot and dense condition of the universe at the beginning should have created clusters of black holes. There is now evidence to suggest this has been found. But it still isn’t enough to account for what is predicted… why>?

Black holes are predicted to form from the collapsed states of certain large stars, about several times larger
than our star. They do so, because of gravitational acceleration, given by the formula;

g=(GM)/d2**

Remember, a free falling object (*) will have the force of gravity totally cancelled out as it’s that weak.
We know that from Newton’s Force Equation is derived as f= ma, where this also shows an inertial
system to derive the acceleration due to gravity. So the gravitational acceleration is the mass of a
gravitationally warped object M, and the distance d from it. Also, instead of working out the mass of a black
hole you can work out its mass against the gravitational acceleration formula, by;

M=gd2/G**

And the Planck Mass given as:

(hc/2piG) ½ >

Energy Tensor is given as and Tab and k is a constant. This equation relates to the curvature of space and time, saying that stress energy is what causes the disturbance of spacetime. As we have seen, Einstein used Newton’s law of Gravity in his Field Equations, then we find the constant of k to have a value of:

k=8πG/c2

Where π is pi, and G is the gravitational constant. The following equation which is an extension of the above equation connects matter with energy with the geometry of spacetime (on the left):

Guv= (-8πG/c2)Tuv

A major consequence of General Relativity, is that it describe that time is dilated round strong gravitational fields.

t’=t√1-2GMc2r

Where,
• t' = Time inside the gravitational field.
• t = Time outside the gravitational field.
• M= The mass causing the gravitational field.
• r = The distance from the center of the gravitational field.
• c = the speed of light in a vacuum 186,000 mps.
• G = The gravitational constant = 6.6742 x10-11 N m2 kg-2

Supermassive black holes would have been created much earlier on – but there is some debate over this. However, I argue if that was true, the universe still would have been far too small for these supermassive black holes to evade collisions.
Also, these gravitational waves, created by black hole collisions very early on in the universe, would have helped in the production of the distribution of matter which seems very homogenous and Isotropic. This depends however on how these black holes had been distributed, but since logic suggests that the infinite density at time of the first Chronon, had to expand in equal proportion, so perhaps even the density produced black holes in the same manner of distribution.
The expected magnitude we should see in the universe today, concerning gravitational waves, is around:

h~ 10^-20

Of magnitudes. That is actually very small on a cosmological scale, and my proposal again explains that there was so many of them, they even radiated until decoherence prevailed over long radiating times.

Explains how these gravitational waves should be detected. It explains how curvature should emerge very strong gravitational excitations in space in forms of luxen waves. In other words, they move at light speed. This is why G must be exhaulted as a constant. Just as ‘’c’’ is a constant, it also makes light a constant. Another constant is ‘’k’’ or even ‘’e’’, there are many in physics, but let us not derail.

In effect, two colliding black holes would shudder spacetime, and should be very common, but it isn't. My theory also explains how this is possible.

It tells matter how to act under the influence of time. And time tells matter how to move through space. And space tells time how to warp. Even space tells matter how to act!!! This is a small iota of collection of mathematical solutions called ‘’the Equivalence Principle(s).’’ One well known one, and already covered a ‘’kizzilion’’ times, is E=Mc^2.

Einsteins Tensor Equations can all be derived from Newtonian Notions:

Gab=kTab

This equation is very important, where the Gab Einstein Tensor Factor, and the Stress Energy Tensor is given as and Tab and k is a constant. This equation relates to the curvature of space and time, saying that stress energy is what causes the disturbance of spacetime. As we have seen, Einstein used Newton’s law of Gravity in his Field Equations, then we find the constant of k to have a value of:

k=8πG/c2

All of this work in General Relativity would have crumbled through if it hadn’t abided by the solutions of geometrized units, but it seemed to predict them correctly:

GN = 1 = c.

There may be a way for the supermassive black hole to evade collisions though. The gradient of mass decreases and therefore so does the gradient of gravitation and density. Some supermassive black holes can have a magnitude of around 10^10 or perhaps even 10^15 time more than supercluster galaxies. They are postulated to be the main force that keeps all the matter and energy in their rotations around the supergalactic centers: And should be, I think, the real solution to that obsurdity we call dark matter and dark energy.
A supermassive black hole, possibly trillions upon millions of them in our galaxy, are in fact be lower than the density of air! - As the enigmatic black holes calculations go as the ave. density of air is:

(1.2 kg/m³(1.2 g/L) ---[A3]

(-), minus, the density of an average supermassive given as >

(-hc/2piG) ½ (M=gd2/G) ---[-A4]

Then in idiosyncratic methods,

[A3] – [-A4] = -x

Where -x is the final value of difference in density, which is found to be less than the density of water. But strange solutions can be provided to show that from the inside of one of the black holes, that are smaller in size, supposed to be compact of matter, is in fact the opposite from an totally hypothetical from observer inside.

Where R is radius, M is mass, V is volume, and D is density. We find that in a black hole, with a mass of about 10^2 of an entire solar mass, has more compact matter density. The radius we are told, is then found to be proportional to the mass it contains:

(R- D)

The we must find trough the black hole math that the density must then be proportional to its mass divided by its volume:

(D=M/V).

And we also find unique correlation between the radius and the volume raised to the power of three;

(V- R^3)

Then this has a final solution in Einstein’s curved spacetime with the black hole reduced to have a density totally equivalent to its mass raised to the second power:

(D- M^-2)

Which means that the insides of even small black holes are not very dense to an imaginary observer; but it is still much more denser inside than what would be found in a supermassive black hole.

Conclusion: Gravitational waves are now extremely weak, through radiative processes. Relativity says that they SHOULD BE frequent, but they are showing evidence in my model that they have been given a suffice amount of time to condense into quantum wave function collapsed systems. This is why they are so rare, because the WHERE SO frequent.

It also seems very evident, that the larger the black hole, the less density it has, and if this is true, then just speculate for the moment on the universe. Scientists already know that the particles and molecules we are made of isn't very dense at all... not dense at all compaired to Bose Condensates or super-dense metal found in the cores of massive stars... THEN our universe may very well be a black hole as well, since we know that the evidence points to this. Moreso, we would survive the dreaded ''mangling'' proffessed by Hawking, but rather there is in the Black Hole model, that there is an inner-boundary that flows spacelike, the normal experience we are used to, and wouldn't cause biological life any harm.

It's inetersting though to also postulate that by working up from the equations frist describing on small scales, the more evident it seemed to me that these waves where confined still in a very small space compaired to today! The radius of the present universe, is about 10^26m, give or take a few. At the early stages, black holes would have been forced to fall into each other very early on, and this might be why they are so scarce to astronomy.

(*) For those who are interested in Free Fall, as spoken about, consider the following math of Newton, which Einstein worked from:

M = mass of Earth

m=mass of of an object falling down through the sky toward terra firma

F=GMm/r^2

and the laws of motion say that:

f=ma

If m is the law of gravitation, and is the same as the m describing the laws of motion, then the motion of gravity is:

ma=GMm/r^2

and m can be removed:

a=GM/r^2

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, what do you think? Could the very pervasive gravitational waves at the beginning of time suffered the natural collapse effects in quantum decoherence?
 
So, what do you think? Could the very pervasive gravitational waves at the beginning of time suffered the natural collapse effects in quantum decoherence?

Certainly not, because gravity a low energy phenomenon, and we do not understand how quantum gravitational effects work. There are echos in the gravitaitonal wave background of the big bang.

Also, learn to use LaTeX.
 
1. We don't know how they work, because we haven't found them; hence my theoretical explanation.

2. Yes, there are echo's... My theory doesn't disclude them all, if you read this correctly.
 
1. We don't know how they work, because we haven't found them; hence my theoretical explanation.

We have no DIRECT evidence of gravitational radiation. We already have INDIRECT detection:

From a 1993 Press Release about the Nobel Proze in Physics:

A very important observation was made when the system had been followed for some years. This followed theoretical predictions made shortly after the original discovery of the pulsar. It was found that the orbit period is declining: the two astronomical bodies are rotating faster and faster about each other in an increasingly tight orbit. The change is very small. It corresponds to a reduction of the orbit period by about 75 millionths of a second per year, but, through observation over sufficient time, it is nevertheless fully measurable. This change was presumed to occur because the system is emitting energy in the form of gravitational waves in accordance with what Einstein in 1916 predicted should happen to masses moving relatively to each other. According to the latest data, the theoretically calculated value from the relativity theory agrees to within about one half of a percent with the observed value. The first report of this effect was made by Taylor and co-workers at the end of 1978, four years after the discovery of the binary pulsar was reported.
 
I know. Stop talking to me like i don't know this stuff.

1. I said that gravitational waves SHOULD BE very very frequent in the universe.

2. As an extra piece of information, there are the now accpetable theories that they are not as frequent as they should be. Some scientists have attempted to answer such question through radical idea's. Like Ekpyrotic Theory.

Now explain to me why this is in psuedoscience? You blatently ignored my facts, therego, i will have to take this up with James.
 
Now explain to me why this is in psuedoscience?

From my PM to you:

For example, black holes are not formed in the early universe, gravitational radiation has been observed (1993 nobel prize in physics, see the thread), you still haven't ever attempted to explain what a ``chronon'' is, or why it's not nonsense, and several lines of math are just plain wrong (ex “ The radius we are told, is then found to be proportional to the mass it contains (R- D) ” .)

Aside from this, most of the conclusions are wild speculation, and are not supported by any evidence you provide outside of your typical ``Hawking said it'' proofs, ex ``THEN our universe may very well be a black hole as well, since we know that the evidence points to this. ''
 
And as i said, there are ''Primordial Black Holes,'' so your sentence:

''For example, black holes are not formed in the early universe''

Is unto itself, bad science. Go and learn yourself, and stop commenting like you have on my own postulations.
 
Also, a chronon is just another name for the Planck Time.

Again... did you not get taught this at your physics education...????


You really make me wonder sometimes.
 
Ben

''and several lines of math are just plain wrong (ex “ The radius we are told, is then found to be proportional to the mass it contains (R- D) ”

is well known. If you have studied black holes to the extent you proclaim, you would know this... but if you don't agree, get someones book who's opinions and degree's are renown... you will find the same conclusions on the radius proportionality in Dr. Wolf's book:

''Parallel Universes.''

Now... please put my post back where it belongs.
 
Is unto itself, bad science. Go and learn yourself, and stop commenting like you have on my own postulations.

Show me proof that there are primordial black holes and I will concede the point.

Also, a chronon is just another name for the Planck Time.

Again... did you not get taught this at your physics education...????

I've read many papers on planckian physics, and have NEVER heard of a chronon.

is well known. If you have studied black holes to the extent you proclaim, you would know this...

The equation you have written is R - D. R has units of meters. D has units of kilogram per cubic meter. You cannot subtract numbers of different dimensions. It's like asking, ``What's one liter minus one meter?''
 
''For those who want to know ,more on primordial black holes, read wiki.''

For Bens distrust, here is also the report of them found.

''Missing Black Hole Report: Hundreds Found!

10.25.07


PASADENA, Calif. - Astronomers have unmasked hundreds of black holes hiding deep inside dusty galaxies billions of light-years away.

The massive, growing black holes, discovered by NASA's Spitzer and Chandra space telescopes, represent a large fraction of a long-sought missing population. Their discovery implies there were hundreds of millions of additional black holes growing in our young universe, more than doubling the total amount known at that distance.

Image right: This image, taken with Spitzer's infrared vision, shows a fraction of these black holes, which are located deep in the bellies of distant, massive galaxies (circled in blue). Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/ Commissariat a l'Energie Atomique
+ Full image and caption

"Active, supermassive black holes were everywhere in the early universe," said Mark Dickinson of the National Optical Astronomy Observatory in Tucson, Ariz. "We had seen the tip of the iceberg before in our search for these objects. Now, we can see the iceberg itself." Dickinson is a co-author of two new papers appearing in the Nov. 10 issue of the Astrophysical Journal. Emanuele Daddi of the Commissariat a l'Energie Atomique in France led the research.

The findings are also the first direct evidence that most, if not all, massive galaxies in the distant universe spent their youths building monstrous black holes at their cores.

For decades, a large population of active black holes has been considered missing. These highly energetic structures belong to a class of black holes called quasars. A quasar consists of a doughnut-shaped cloud of gas and dust that surrounds and feeds a budding supermassive black hole. As the gas and dust are devoured by the black hole, they heat up and shoot out X-rays. Those X-rays can be detected as a general glow in space, but often the quasars themselves can't be seen directly because dust and gas blocks them from our view.

"We knew from other studies from about 30 years ago that there must be more quasars in the universe, but we didn't know where to find them until now," said Daddi.

Image left: An artist's concept of a growing black hole. Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech
+ Full image and caption

Daddi and his team initially set out to study 1,000 dusty, massive galaxies that are busy making stars and were thought to lack quasars. The galaxies are about the same mass as our own spiral Milky Way galaxy, but irregular in shape. At 9 to 11 billion light-years away, they existed at a time when the universe was in its adolescence, between 2.5 and 4.5 billion years old.

When the astronomers peered more closely at the galaxies with Spitzer's infrared eyes, they noticed that about 200 of the galaxies gave off an unusual amount of infrared light. X-ray data from Chandra, and a technique called "stacking," revealed the galaxies were, in fact, hiding plump quasars inside. The scientists now think that the quasars heat the dust in their surrounding doughnut clouds, releasing the excess infrared light.

"We found most of the population of hidden quasars in the early universe," said Daddi. Previously, only the rarest and most energetic of these hidden black holes had been seen at this early epoch.

The newfound quasars are helping answer fundamental questions about how massive galaxies evolve. For instance, astronomers have learned that most massive galaxies steadily build up their stars and black holes simultaneously until they get too big and their black holes suppress star formation.

The observations also suggest that collisions between galaxies might not play as large a role in galaxy evolution as previously believed. "Theorists thought that mergers between galaxies were required to initiate this quasar activity, but we now see that quasars can be active in unharassed galaxies," said co-author David Alexander of Durham University, United Kingdom.

"It's as if we were blindfolded studying the elephant before, and we weren't sure what kind of animal we had," added co-author David Elbaz of the Commissariat a l'Energie Atomique. "Now, we can see the elephant for the first time."

The new observations were made as part of the Great Observatories Origins Deep Survey, the most sensitive survey to date of the distant universe at multiple wavelengths.

Consistent results were recently obtained by Fabrizio Fiore of the Osservatorio Astronomico di Roma, Italy, and his team. Their results will appear in the Jan. 1, 2008, issue of Astrophysical Journal.

NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., manages the Chandra program for the agency's Science Mission Directorate. The Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory controls science and flight operations from the Chandra X-ray Center in Cambridge, Mass. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the Spitzer Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center at the California Institute of Technology, also in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA.

The National Optical Astronomy Observatory is operated by the Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy under a cooperative agreement with the National Science Foundation.

For more information and graphics, visit http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/spitzer and http://www.nasa.gov/spitzer; and http://chandra.harvard.edu/ and http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ch...ain/index.html.''

Ben said

''Show me proof that there are primordial black holes and I will concede the point.''

So concede your ignorance and replace my thread where it belongs.

''I've read many papers on planckian physics, and have NEVER heard of a chronon.''

Well, that's not my fault your education is missing a lot. Why don't you pull up one of these ''on-line'' astrophysicists... then you will see i am 100% correct.

[IF YOU STUDY THE FUCKIN MATH BETTER BEN] - This is twice i have had to ask you this.

*R - D is what you wrote.

I wrote, R- D, which is a mathematical configuration showing that one is proportional to the other. Now again, put my thread back!!!!!
 
From your article :

``Daddi and his team initially set out to study 1,000 dusty, massive galaxies that are busy making stars and were thought to lack quasars. The galaxies are about the same mass as our own spiral Milky Way galaxy, but irregular in shape. At 9 to 11 billion light-years away, they existed at a time when the universe was in its adolescence, between 2.5 and 4.5 billion years old. ''

This hardly counts as ``primordial''. Also, a text search for ``primordial'' returned no hits.

In the future, you don't have to cut and paste the entire article, just a link will suffice.
 
Also, a chronon is just another name for the Planck Time.

Again... did you not get taught this at your physics education...????


You really make me wonder sometimes.

I had never heard of a chronon before either, so I looked it up in the paper 'Introduction of a Quantum of Time ("chronon") and its Consequences for Quantum Mechanics' by Farias and Recami.

It states that a particle's chronon depends on its charge and rest mass. For the electron, they give the result of ~ 6e-24 seconds. That's about 20 orders of magnitude greater than the Planck time (~ 5e-44 seconds).

Cool concept though! Thank you for the tip, now I got something to do this weekend besides clean the house!
 
Primordial BH's are supposed to have formed as a result of the conditions in the initial moments of the BB, not by conventional implosive mechanisms (supernovae) or other more mundane means. Nothing that can be definitively described as a "primordial" BH has been discovered.
 
Back
Top