Death fatwa on Azeri writer

[Michael]

Iran issues fatwa on Azeri writer
Grand Ayatollah Lankarani is said to have issued a fatwa calling for the death of the writer and also the person responsible for publishing his articles. Earlier, an Iranian cleric had offered his house as a reward to anyone who killed the Azeri writer. But this latest fatwa comes from one of the dozen or so Grand Ayatollahs in Iran, who has a large following. Well here we go again. Another stupid Death Fatwa.

I don’t understand why these Religious-people can not simply debate the points. To try and silence one's critics by bludgeoning them to death caveman-style (Ooo and win a new house) simply implies that your argument doesn't have an intellectual leg to stand on or that you are so caveman-like in mentality that the impulse to kill simply overrides any higher intellects - if they are even present.

IMHO, if one can read a Philosophical treaty, especially one purportedly from God herself, and not even reach the most basic of enlightenments, that being “killing people is evil” - well, that really says something about the treaty – doesn’t it? I mean come on here, how could one read an entire book and not walk away with this most simplest and fundamental principals? If not, then reading the book was a complete and utter waste of time.

Wouldn't everyone agree?

Michael

 

[S.A.M.]

Iran issues fatwa on Azeri writer
Grand Ayatollah Lankarani is said to have issued a fatwa calling for the death of the writer and also the person responsible for publishing his articles. Earlier, an Iranian cleric had offered his house as a reward to anyone who killed the Azeri writer. But this latest fatwa comes from one of the dozen or so Grand Ayatollahs in Iran, who has a large following. Well here we go again. Another stupid Death Fatwa.

I don’t understand why these Religious-people can not simply debate the points. To try and silence one's critics by bludgeoning them to death caveman-style (Ooo and win a new house) simply implies that your argument doesn't have an intellectual leg to stand on or that you are so caveman-like in mentality that the impulse to kill simply overrides any higher intellects - if they are even present.

IMHO, if one can read a Philosophical treaty, especially one purportedly from God herself, and not even reach the most basic of enlightenments, that being “killing people is evil” - well, that really says something about the treaty – doesn’t it? I mean come on here, how could one read an entire book and not walk away with this most simplest and fundamental principals? If not, then reading the book was a complete and utter waste of time.

Wouldn't everyone agree?

Michael

Cannot understand why they have these ayatollahs in the first place. There is not supposed to be a religious hierarchy in Islam. So what gives these guys the right to issue fatwas for personal reasons?

 

[Prince_James]

SamCDKey:

What imans and caliphs?

 

[S.A.M.]

SamCDKey:

What imans and caliphs?

An imam is a man who leads the prayer. It is a position not a job.

A caliph (translation=representative) is supposed to be just that.

 

[Prince_James]

So you would not consider them a priestly position?

 

[S.A.M.]

So you would not consider them a priestly position?

There are no priests in Muslims only qadis (jurists) and alim (scholar, plural ulema).

The qadis perform legal duties in accordance with the principles in the Quran while the ulema are the equivalent of brahmins, they preserve and contribute to the existing religious and scholarly literature of Muslims.

The position of imam has been adopted by Muslims from other religions.

 

[Prince_James]

SamCDKey:

When did the imam position develop?

 

[Michael]

Same question as above only:
Ayatollah?
Grand Ayatollah?

When did this fatwa thing first happen?
Who made it?
What was it?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Michael]

On another note. This sounds crazy and this is the first and only time this has ever happened to me. Just 1 hour ago one of the guys in the lab's mother made a lunch for everyone. So she happens to be Muslim. Well everyone lined up and was shaking her hand and/or kissing her on the check and thanking her for making us a nice lunch (it was nice and so I of course kind of queued up and stuck out my hand and she just said: do not touch me. I was like, huh? She said: I can not touch you.
Well needless to say my happy lunch turned to ash... in my mouth. I was really really really put off. Oh well. Stupid beliefs...
One funny thing: One of the Asian girls said "Yum, is this pork?"
Haaa! Too funny That's true too.
You know, I know you say that it's an open religion and not prejudice and all of these people are just mistaken - but I have to say, this really takes the cake. " I can not touch you."? Jesus, I felt like a leper.
On anther note Huss, her son, who supposedly has not problem shaking my hand, once said: You know Michael, I'm really quite liberal, I think everyone will be in Heaven, even Jews."
I sort of smirked.

Anyway, I have to get onto the microscope for 4 hours of fun
Take care,
Michael

 

[S.A.M.]

SamCDKey:

When did the imam position develop?

The actual meaning of the word "imam" is one who leads in prayer, i.e the person who stands before the others (facing in same direction, of course) and calls out the prayers so that everyone can pray at the same pace, together. In the hospital where I worked in KSA, one of the Bengali boys (barely 18 but with a very good voice) used to take the role of imam, because he was loud clear and able to maintain a pace that was neither too fast nor too slow.

What I think happened is that those who were good imams were permanently assigned the position and then slowly took on more responsibilities (ie looking after the mosques, advising on religious duties etc). The decline in Islamic scholarship and the rise of religious scholars against the power of the Caliphs gave them additional powers and although initially the reason may have been preservation of the religious beliefs (especially against the Mongols and Ottomons who were imperialists and given to excesses), it has now degenerated to a caricature of what the post means. The Ayatollahs for e.g. consider themselves divinely ordained (as Catholic priests) although in Islam there is no priesthood. Parts of the religion in the ME are a mixture of old Arab paganism with elements borrowed from Judaism and Christianity, as well as from Persians and tribal practices.

 

[S.A.M.]

Same question as above only:
Ayatollah?
Grand Ayatollah?

When did this fatwa thing first happen?
Who made it?
What was it?

Thanks,
Michael

No idea about the Ayatollah stuff. Will need to look it up.

As for fatwa:

Fatwa literally means a legal judgement and is made by a mufti ( a legal scholar who is well versed in muslim jurisprudence) Muslim does not necessarily mean derived from religious sources, but from the body of work called Fiqh, a collection of legal jurisprudence of the last 1400 years written by various Islamic scholars and covering all areas of a persons life.

Fiqh is a huge body of knowledge with legal interpretations ranging from the very conservative to the very liberal and changes in social legal issues are brought about by fatwas issued by established and respected muftis. Of course, the fatwa is merely a legal opinion and is not binding on one unless the mufti is associated with the legal framework of the country or there are important social issues under consideration. e.g. a mufti could pass a fatwa that wearing of hijab is incompatible with current social mores and those who wished to align themselves with this opinion are free to do so. However this does not mean that those who wish to wear a hijab cannot do so. In addition this fatwa may apply only to the area where the mufti lives, or may be used by people from another country who wish to follow the same mores. There are no hard and fast rules, it is merely a legal opinon.

History:

In the early days of Islam, fatawa were pronounced by distinguished scholars to provide guidance to other scholars, judges and citizens on how subtle points of Islamic law should be understood, interpreted or applied. There were strict rules on who is eligible (see below) to issue a valid fatwa and who could not, as well as on the conditions the fatwa must satisfy to be valid. Today many Muslim countries (such as Egypt and Tunisia) have an official mufti position; a distinguished expert in the Sharia is named by the civil authorities of the country. According to the Usul al-fiqh" (Principles of Jurisprudence), the latter are as follows :

1. The fatwa is in line with relevant legal proofs, deduced from Koranic verses and hadiths;
2. It is issued by a person (or a board) having due knowledge and sincerity of heart;
3. It is free from individual opportunism, and not depending on political servitude;
4. It is adequate with the needs of the contemporary world.

Today, with the existence of modern independent States, each with its own legislative system, and/or its own body of ulemas, each country develops and applies its own rules, based on its own interpretation of religious prescriptions.

 

[S.A.M.]

On another note. This sounds crazy and this is the first and only time this has ever happened to me. Just 1 hour ago one of the guys in the lab's mother made a lunch for everyone. So she happens to be Muslim. Well everyone lined up and was shaking her hand and/or kissing her on the check and thanking her for making us a nice lunch (it was nice and so I of course kind of queued up and stuck out my hand and she just said: do not touch me. I was like, huh? She said: I can not touch you.
Well needless to say my happy lunch turned to ash... in my mouth. I was really really really put off. Oh well. Stupid beliefs...
One funny thing: One of the Asian girls said "Yum, is this pork?"
Haaa! Too funny That's true too.
You know, I know you say that it's an open religion and not prejudice and all of these people are just mistaken - but I have to say, this really takes the cake. " I can not touch you."? Jesus, I felt like a leper.
On anther note Huss, her son, who supposedly has not problem shaking my hand, once said: You know Michael, I'm really quite liberal, I think everyone will be in Heaven, even Jews."
I sort of smirked.

Anyway, I have to get onto the microscope for 4 hours of fun
Take care,
Michael

Sounds really strange to me. Maybe she was attracted to you?

 

[Michael]

samcdkey

During prayer does everyone say the same prayer or do each person say their own prayer?

Two more questions - one maybe sounds stupid.

So you got to Pray with the men in KSA?
Did you take an Arabic name while in KSA?

Michael

 

[Michael]

Sounds really strange to me. Maybe she was attracted to you?

Haa! Maybe
I will ask Huss the next time he's in the lab.

UuuOooo 4 hours of microscope - my head hurts .... must carry on .. must get beer .. and listen to my buddy play in local band at Jazz bar ...

 

[S.A.M.]

samcdkey

During prayer does everyone say the same prayer or do each person say their own prayer?



Michael

The prayer or salat follows a cycle. In congregation, the imam leads the prayer and everyone follows his lead. Anyone who knows the verses of the Quran can be an imam and within the rules of the salat he can use the verses he remembers or prefers.

Two more questions - one maybe sounds stupid.

So you got to Pray with the men in KSA?

Only in Mecca where everyone has to pray in the main mosque.

Otherwise women are not required to pray in congregation, they can pray in the mosque if they like, but its so hot, they would prefer to do so in the air-conditioned comfort of home (most mosques are just a room with a roof). During travel, the men (e.g. my driver) make arrangements for women to pray in comfort, in an hotel or a large restaurant with a prayer room. They also bought us lunch/dinner.

Did you take an Arabic name while in KSA?

No why would I?

Muslim women do not even take their husbands names after marriage (though I've seen some do so in India following the custom of other religions).

 

[S.A.M.]

Haa! Maybe
I will ask Huss the next time he's in the lab.

UuuOooo 4 hours of microscope - my head hurts .... must carry on .. must get beer .. and listen to my buddy play in local band at Jazz bar ...

Did a glucose tolerance test on 17 rats yesterday. Do not want to see another tail vein for a long time.:bugeye:

 

[Prince_James]

SamCDKey:

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the information.

 

[S.A.M.]

SamCDKey:

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the information.

You're welcome.

 

[Michael]

The prayer or salat follows a cycle. In congregation, the imam leads the prayer and everyone follows his lead. Anyone who knows the verses of the Quran can be an imam and within the rules of the salat he can use the verses he remembers or prefers.

I suppose from my childhood this’d compare with singing Hymns at Church?

They also bought us lunch/dinner.

How nice was that!
1) What kind of food?
2) Was this a tour package or common treatment for cute foreigners!

No why would I?

It’s sometimes common for people from other coutries (esp China) to take an English name when coming to the States/AU/ENG/NZ so I suppose it’d not be that different. But also I was thinking of situations like the boxer Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali – I was once told that some Muslim religions insist that people take an Arabic name?

That always remindes me of the Seinfeld episode of the “Sunshine Carpet Cleaners” and George's boss (who runs the New York Yankees) joins the cult and changes his name from Wilhelm to Tania! But they wouldn’t let George join!

Haaa!! I loved that show!

Did a glucose tolerance test on 17 rats yesterday. Do not want to see another tail vein for a long time.:bugeye:

When you publish let me know.
Right now I’m having the most difficult time of any paper ever
Oh well, all in due time.

Michael

PS: Band Good ... Head still Hurts .... need nap ....

 

[S.A.M.]

I suppose from my childhood this’d compare with singing Hymns at Church?

I've sung a few hymns in church. Possibly

How nice was that!
1) What kind of food?
2) Was this a tour package or common treatment for cute foreigners!

haha. Yummy soft tender Turki chicken. Or roast chicken (called Dajaaj Fahm) or a rice dish with chicken called Kabsa. Umm

Most of the Saudi guys we worked with were simple country folk. They used to take us home for dinner with their families during vaccination drives, bring us boxes of fresh dates during Ramadan or when we were going home for vacation. Most of them treated us when we travelled to and from the airport, or when we went to Jeddah to the embassy. And they always had their perpetual tea parties in the room assigned to them, if you passed by, a cup of tea was always offered along with the latest tidbit of gossip!

It’s sometimes common for people from other coutries (esp China) to take an English name when coming to the States/AU/ENG/NZ so I suppose it’d not be that different. But also I was thinking of situations like the boxer Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali – I was once told that some Muslim religions insist that people take an Arabic name?

I think all these "Arabic names" are more commonly seen in converts. If you look at the average non-Arab Muslim the most common Arabic name you'll see is Mohammed.

That always remindes me of the Seinfeld episode of the “Sunshine Carpet Cleaners” and George's boss (who runs the New York Yankees) joins the cult and changes his name from Wilhelm to Tania! But they wouldn’t let George join!

Haaa!! I loved that show!

When you publish let me know.
Right now I’m having the most difficult time of any paper ever
Oh well, all in due time.

Michael

Poor you!
Writing a first draft on the previous study. Takes ages to get through all the tissues and stuff. This is just a pilot study, trying to figure out soemthing for the next major study starting circa Dec 20006.

PS: Band Good ... Head still Hurts .... need nap ....

Just got up from mine. Has been a heavy week workwise for me too!
I have the mostest advisor, who is a great editor. I'm terribly verbose.