Deadly sin
- Thread starter Enigma'07
- Start date
The Seven Deadly Sins
We are lucky to have been provided with a list of sins that can apparently lead to all sorts of trouble - the Seven Deadly Sins. Obviously, it would be bad to commit any of these sins (they`re deadly, remember), and as such it seems reasonable to suppose that our Lord and Creator would carefully avoid them too.
Let`s see how well He does.
PRIDE
After creating various bits and bobs in Genesis, we are told "And God saw that it was good". So, He takes pride in His work, apparently.
Also, when John baptised Jesus (good job he did, because we all know what happens to un-baptised people when they die...) God said, and I quote, "You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased". God, who is Jesus, loves and is pleased with Jesus, who is God. If you knew someone who claimed to love and be pleased with himself, wouldn't that hint at a self-proud person?
WRATH
Well, according to the Old Testament, God was a genocidal maniac of Biblical proportions (naturally). However, it could be argued that many of the mass-slaughters described therein were not done out of anger, but for some other Godly motives. Fair enough, but are there any specific examples of wrath?
Samuel (24:1) tells us :"Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah'". Burning anger? Sounds like Wrath to me.
Also from Samuel (6:6) "When they came to the threshing-floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the Ark of God." Presumably God would have preferred the Ark to fall into the mud, but Uzzah paid the price here...
ENVY
From the Ten Commandments : "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." Says it all, really. We don't even need to look for the evidence here, as we get it straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak).
LUST
Your school Nativity Play is a good example : the Holy Spirit impregnating virgins... Naughty, naughty - randy old God.
GLUTTONY
Why are we here? Many theologians would say "To love and worship God". Apparently, God just can't be content unless He creates five billion souls for the specific purpose of telling him how great he is. That's lot of people. That's just plain gluttonous.
AVARICE
Okay, he's let off this one - God has no need of money. Unfortunately his spokespeople, the televangelists, more than make up for this. Send me money and get to heaven! Either they're lying and just trying to get rich, or God actually does need money. Either way, it doesn't look good.
SLOTH
Back to Genesis again: "By the seventh day God finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work."
Being omnipotent, god cannot get tired. If He has access to an infinite supply of energy (as we are led to believe), He could create a billion galaxies without so much as breaking into a sweat. It looks like He was just slobbing around...
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Score : 6.5 out of seven. Not so hot, is it?
Now, we are told that Adam and Eve were not supposed to eat the Fruit in Eden, as this would make them more like God (having knowledge of Good and Evil, etc.). Could it be that the Seven Deadly Sins are a similar thing? After all, if you commit all seven, you will indeed be more like God (who, as we have seen, is guilty of all seven). Maybe this is just a bit of reverse psychology. If the churches tell us all about the Seven Deadly Sins, some of us are more likely to actually go out and commit them. From the church's point of view this would be a good thing. After all, they can't have us mere mortals subscribing to a higher moral code than God, now can they?
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© Adrian Barnett 1998
We are lucky to have been provided with a list of sins that can apparently lead to all sorts of trouble - the Seven Deadly Sins. Obviously, it would be bad to commit any of these sins (they`re deadly, remember), and as such it seems reasonable to suppose that our Lord and Creator would carefully avoid them too.
Let`s see how well He does.
PRIDE
After creating various bits and bobs in Genesis, we are told "And God saw that it was good". So, He takes pride in His work, apparently.
Also, when John baptised Jesus (good job he did, because we all know what happens to un-baptised people when they die...) God said, and I quote, "You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased". God, who is Jesus, loves and is pleased with Jesus, who is God. If you knew someone who claimed to love and be pleased with himself, wouldn't that hint at a self-proud person?
WRATH
Well, according to the Old Testament, God was a genocidal maniac of Biblical proportions (naturally). However, it could be argued that many of the mass-slaughters described therein were not done out of anger, but for some other Godly motives. Fair enough, but are there any specific examples of wrath?
Samuel (24:1) tells us :"Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah'". Burning anger? Sounds like Wrath to me.
Also from Samuel (6:6) "When they came to the threshing-floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the Ark of God." Presumably God would have preferred the Ark to fall into the mud, but Uzzah paid the price here...
ENVY
From the Ten Commandments : "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." Says it all, really. We don't even need to look for the evidence here, as we get it straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak).
LUST
Your school Nativity Play is a good example : the Holy Spirit impregnating virgins... Naughty, naughty - randy old God.
GLUTTONY
Why are we here? Many theologians would say "To love and worship God". Apparently, God just can't be content unless He creates five billion souls for the specific purpose of telling him how great he is. That's lot of people. That's just plain gluttonous.
AVARICE
Okay, he's let off this one - God has no need of money. Unfortunately his spokespeople, the televangelists, more than make up for this. Send me money and get to heaven! Either they're lying and just trying to get rich, or God actually does need money. Either way, it doesn't look good.
SLOTH
Back to Genesis again: "By the seventh day God finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work."
Being omnipotent, god cannot get tired. If He has access to an infinite supply of energy (as we are led to believe), He could create a billion galaxies without so much as breaking into a sweat. It looks like He was just slobbing around...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Score : 6.5 out of seven. Not so hot, is it?
Now, we are told that Adam and Eve were not supposed to eat the Fruit in Eden, as this would make them more like God (having knowledge of Good and Evil, etc.). Could it be that the Seven Deadly Sins are a similar thing? After all, if you commit all seven, you will indeed be more like God (who, as we have seen, is guilty of all seven). Maybe this is just a bit of reverse psychology. If the churches tell us all about the Seven Deadly Sins, some of us are more likely to actually go out and commit them. From the church's point of view this would be a good thing. After all, they can't have us mere mortals subscribing to a higher moral code than God, now can they?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© Adrian Barnett 1998
@ Enigma'07
I would advise not delving too much into this topic since you can't commit the sin if you don't know what it is..
That's just me advising you as a friend but if you must:
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you…
This shows, that what follows is occasioned by what the Pharisees had said, concerning the miracles of Christ; imputing them to diabolical influence and assistance, when they were done by the Spirit of God, of which they themselves were conscious;
all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
not unto all men, for there are some, who, as they are never truly convinced of sin, and brought to repentance for it, so they never have the remission of it; but to such to whom God of his free grace has promised, and for whom he has provided this blessing, in the covenant of his grace; for whom the blood of Christ was shed, for the remission of their sins; and who, by the Spirit of God, are made sensible of them, and have repentance unto life given them, and faith in Christ, by which they receive the forgiveness of them: the sense is, that all kind of sin, whether committed more immediately against God, or man, the first or second table of the law, or against any of the divine precepts; be they sins small or great, secret or open, sins of heart, lip, or life, or attended with whatsoever aggravating circumstances; and all kind of blasphemy, or evil speaking of men, or of angels, or of the name of God, but what is hereafter excepted, there is forgiveness of in the grace of God, through the blood of Christ, even for all sorts of men and sinners whatever. The Jews have a saying F26, that God pardons all sins,
``(hmzh Nm Uwx) , "except lasciviousness".''
But this is not excepted by Christ, only what follows,
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, shall not be forgiven unto
men:
by which is meant, not every ignorant denial of, and opposition to his deity and personality; nor all resistance of him in the external ministry of the word; nor every sin that is knowingly and wilfully committed; but it is a despiteful usage of the Spirit of grace, an opposing, contradicting, and denying the operations wrought, or doctrines revealed by him, against a man's own light and conscience, out of wilful and obstinate malice, on purpose to lessen the glory of God, and gratify his own lusts: such was the sin of the Scribes and Pharisees; who, though they knew the miracles of Christ were wrought by the Spirit of God, yet maliciously and obstinately imputed them to the devil, with a view to obscure the glory of Christ, and indulge their own wicked passions and resentments against him; which sin was unpardonable at that present time, as well as under that dispensation then to come, when the Spirit of God was poured down in a more plenteous manner.
I would advise not delving too much into this topic since you can't commit the sin if you don't know what it is..
That's just me advising you as a friend but if you must:
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you…
This shows, that what follows is occasioned by what the Pharisees had said, concerning the miracles of Christ; imputing them to diabolical influence and assistance, when they were done by the Spirit of God, of which they themselves were conscious;
all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
not unto all men, for there are some, who, as they are never truly convinced of sin, and brought to repentance for it, so they never have the remission of it; but to such to whom God of his free grace has promised, and for whom he has provided this blessing, in the covenant of his grace; for whom the blood of Christ was shed, for the remission of their sins; and who, by the Spirit of God, are made sensible of them, and have repentance unto life given them, and faith in Christ, by which they receive the forgiveness of them: the sense is, that all kind of sin, whether committed more immediately against God, or man, the first or second table of the law, or against any of the divine precepts; be they sins small or great, secret or open, sins of heart, lip, or life, or attended with whatsoever aggravating circumstances; and all kind of blasphemy, or evil speaking of men, or of angels, or of the name of God, but what is hereafter excepted, there is forgiveness of in the grace of God, through the blood of Christ, even for all sorts of men and sinners whatever. The Jews have a saying F26, that God pardons all sins,
``(hmzh Nm Uwx) , "except lasciviousness".''
But this is not excepted by Christ, only what follows,
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, shall not be forgiven unto
men:
by which is meant, not every ignorant denial of, and opposition to his deity and personality; nor all resistance of him in the external ministry of the word; nor every sin that is knowingly and wilfully committed; but it is a despiteful usage of the Spirit of grace, an opposing, contradicting, and denying the operations wrought, or doctrines revealed by him, against a man's own light and conscience, out of wilful and obstinate malice, on purpose to lessen the glory of God, and gratify his own lusts: such was the sin of the Scribes and Pharisees; who, though they knew the miracles of Christ were wrought by the Spirit of God, yet maliciously and obstinately imputed them to the devil, with a view to obscure the glory of Christ, and indulge their own wicked passions and resentments against him; which sin was unpardonable at that present time, as well as under that dispensation then to come, when the Spirit of God was poured down in a more plenteous manner.
Doesn't that go against the very nature of God? That He is loving but just and forgiven. If blaspheme against the Holy Spirit wasn't forgivable, then, that would mean that God broke His promise to forgive us, wouldn't it? I don't mean to say that He has, just thinking through the matter...
Read between the lines. To be forgiven doesn't really mean that there is one who forgives.
*************§outh§tar said:
M*W: This is simply preposterous!
*************
*************
M*W: No, you are NOT advising anyone "as a friend,"
*************
M*W: That's ludicrous!
*************
If hell exists, there must be an unforgivable sin. It would otherwise be conceivable to get out of hell. Though some have believed that those in hell might be given a chance to grow closer to God, it would seem they would then not be in hell but purgatory.
Note also that a rejection of everything that God has to offer would condemn someone eternally. Once in the state of rejection, they would be unable to improve their condition by their own will and truly repent as this requires God's mercy.
Note also that a rejection of everything that God has to offer would condemn someone eternally. Once in the state of rejection, they would be unable to improve their condition by their own will and truly repent as this requires God's mercy.
Christians do understand that they are sinners and they have repented, that is what makes them Christians. You are contradicting yourself.
How do you know what my relationship with southstar is? You don't! Generally you don't give valuable advice to people you dislike. This proves that we have a friendship of somesort, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered posting his message.
You may feel forgiven if you give up guilt. You may give up guilt because some insight has shown you your basic presumptions were wrong. So, you may feel forgiven even if no one has forgiven you. Circumstances have provided forgiveness, and those circumstances may also be called God, but it is not necessarily a person or personality that is responsible, it's only that you have the idea that circumstances are possessed with the quality of personality. It is an artifact of language, particularly western language that artificially separates the action from the actor, the noun from the verb etc...
One who confesses, for instance, feels forgiven by God without actually talking to God. Forgiveness is just another form of love. In realizing a kind of universal love, you may accurately describe it as forgiveness or grace, or all the other technical terms available to Jesus at the time. That's why I think we have to read between the lines. I think it is probable that Jesus realized something new, and was inhibited in it's description by the existing language- an innaccuracy that haunts us to this day. Why is there no Gospel of Jesus? ...I think that's the reason, there could be none.
Adstar said:
My thoughts exactly..
It is also not good for other more important reasons which I think you know..
@ MW
All you did was blow hot air and failed to even defend your statements. Typical.
@ spidergoat
The sort of "forgiveness" we are talking about is specifically described as "unavailable" in "this world or the world to come". And "the world to come" has nothing to do with the beliefs of this world.
Damn Preacher that was a very eloquent post.
(I don't need to be forgiven) The Who.
The trip about sin, is to control your gullible people who believe such non-sense as to need to be forgiven for a promise, which is false. To live such as the bible dictates "which would be imposible" because your made to be sinner from birth which is a slap on justice, and an asult on morality.
Can't people get it through their heads the bible, and quran, religion in general is to control the masses? We're no longer ingnorant child like adults, morals is not a total dictate by religiousity, the church has proven itself not to be moral at all. Need I remind people of witches burning, inquisition, yada,yada,yada..bla,blabla.. You know the rest. Priest molesting children, yada,yada, need I go on?.
Godless.
(I don't need to be forgiven) The Who.
The trip about sin, is to control your gullible people who believe such non-sense as to need to be forgiven for a promise, which is false. To live such as the bible dictates "which would be imposible" because your made to be sinner from birth which is a slap on justice, and an asult on morality.
Can't people get it through their heads the bible, and quran, religion in general is to control the masses? We're no longer ingnorant child like adults, morals is not a total dictate by religiousity, the church has proven itself not to be moral at all. Need I remind people of witches burning, inquisition, yada,yada,yada..bla,blabla.. You know the rest. Priest molesting children, yada,yada, need I go on?.
Godless.