Deadly shooting at US university

[James R]

Buffalo Roam:

A big pile of Bull Shit, no rational person shoot another person, let alone 32 people that present no threat to his life, only a looser shoots 32 people to assuage his on failure in life...

He shot them precisely to "assuage his own failure in life". He knew that by doing this, he would gain huge media coverage and become "famous". In his frame of mind, it was a perfectly rational choice of what to do to get what he wanted.

he is the one who couldn't face his personnel failure and make the choice to seek help to change the situation, it was his decisions, in trying not to face and accept the facts in his life, and seek help out side him self that lead to this, he was so afraid to admit that he was responsible for his own failings that he placed the blame on others and the rationalized their killings to salve his own failings.

Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself. You're saying he decided this, and chose to do that, and that he made the choices he did as the result of some kind of reasoning process and (importantly) not on a spur-of-the-moment impulse. That makes him rational, by your own argument.

...their the ones responsible for their own failure, they will take it out on people who are innocent, It is Cho Seung-hui who is the one who made the choice, and it is him alone who has to carry the blame.

A person ought not to be responsible for irrational behviour, right?

We can only be held responsible for things under our control, and irrational, crazy actions are not.

If you're going to say he was sick and needed help, you can't simultaneously hold him entirely responsible for his actions, can you?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

samcdkey,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4371403.stm

So what are you trying to say?


How about India?

http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/15spec.htm

Out of every three cases of suicide reported every 15 minutes in India, one is committed by a youth in the age group of 15 to 29.
In the Union Territory of Pondicherry, every month at least 15 youths between the ages of 15 and 25 commit suicide.
In 2002, there were 10,982 suicides in Tamil Nadu, 11,300 in Kerala, 10,934 in Karnataka, and 9,433 in Andhra Pradesh.
In 2003, the largest number of farmers -- around 175 -- committed suicide in Andhra Pradesh.
Kerala, the country's first fully literate state, has the highest number of suicides. Some 32 people commit suicide in Kerala every day.

Murder by Suicide: Episodes from Muslim History
Juramentado strips murder and suicide of their profane. moral and physical connotations by ... tudes toward Suicide in India. InternationalJournal of Indian ...
http://www.anthrosource.net/doi/abs/10.1525/aa.2002.104.3.736

 

[S.A.M.]

samcdkey,



So what are you trying to say?


How about India?

http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/15spec.htm

Out of every three cases of suicide reported every 15 minutes in India, one is committed by a youth in the age group of 15 to 29.
In the Union Territory of Pondicherry, every month at least 15 youths between the ages of 15 and 25 commit suicide.
In 2002, there were 10,982 suicides in Tamil Nadu, 11,300 in Kerala, 10,934 in Karnataka, and 9,433 in Andhra Pradesh.
In 2003, the largest number of farmers -- around 175 -- committed suicide in Andhra Pradesh.
Kerala, the country's first fully literate state, has the highest number of suicides. Some 32 people commit suicide in Kerala every day.

Murder by Suicide: Episodes from Muslim History
Juramentado strips murder and suicide of their profane. moral and physical connotations by ... tudes toward Suicide in India. InternationalJournal of Indian ...
http://www.anthrosource.net/doi/abs/10.1525/aa.2002.104.3.736

What a moron.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6701


'Suicide tree' toxin is 'perfect' murder weapon
15:56 26 November 2004
Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.
James Randerson


Unnoticed homicides
Using high-performance liquid chromatography coupled with mass spectrometry to examine autopsy tissues for traces of the plant, the team uncovered a number of homicides that would otherwise have gone unnoticed. This also suggests that some cases put down to suicide may actually have been murders, they say.

Three-quarters of Cerbera victims are women. The team says that this may mean the plant is being used to kill young wives who do not meet the exacting standards of some Indian families. It is also likely that many cases of homicide using the plant go unnoticed in countries where it does not grow naturally.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

samCDkey, yes what a moron sam is.

So what does your post prove?

Kenya and no guns at all.

Mar 26, 2001 - An arson fire at the Kyanguli Secondary school in Kenya killed 67 students. Two students were charged with murder.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


April 29, 2002 - 17-year-old Dragoslav Petkovic opened fire with a handgun shortly after noon at his high school in Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina, killing one teacher and wounding another before taking his own life.

Apr. 26, 2002 - 19-year-old Robert Steinhaeuser, who had been expelled from Johann Gutenberg high school in Erfurt, Germany, returned to the school and shot to death 13 teachers, two students and a police officer before killing himself.

Feb. 19, 2002 - A 22-year-old gunman in Munich, Germany, killed his former boss and a foreman at the company that fired him, then went to a high school in a Munich suburb, where he shot the school's headmaster when he was unable to find the teacher he was after. He then shot another teacher in the face and set off homemade bombs before killing himself.

June 8, 2001 - Mamoru Takuma forced his way into Ikeda Elementary School in Osaka, Japan, stabbed to death eight students and injured 13 others. Takuma, who had a long history of mental illness, pleaded guilty to the crimes.

Mar. 13, 1996: Thomas Hamilton, 43, dressed in black and wearing earmuffs to protect himself from the noise, entered an elementary school in Dunblane, Scotland, and sprayed 105 bullets into the gym striking 29 people before killing himself. Sixteen five and 6-year-olds and a teacher died.

Crime Location: Alberta, Canada
Crime Occurred in: Apr, 1999
Victim(s): One student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years.
Culprit(s): The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates.

Crime Location: Carmen de Patagones, Argentina
Crime Occurred in: Sep, 2004
Victim(s): Three students killed and 6 wounded.
Culprit(s): 15-year-old Argentininan

Crime Location: Sweden
Crime Occurred in: Jan, 2001
Victim(s): One student killed.
Culprit(s): two boys, ages 17 and 19

 

[DeepThought]

Americans? The guy was a South Korean!! Why are you pickin' on Americans?

Baron Max

He was born in South Korea but made in America.

Seems like he had serious grievances against economic inequality in America.

I wonder whats on the rest of the video material.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/POSA/articles/1204297/

1. An Armed Bad Guy Enters a School.

But, didn't he realize that schools are "No Gun Zones"? Didn't he understand the increased penalties for having a gun within 100ft, 500ft, or 1000ft of a school? Didn't he read the school's policy forbidding the carrying of "any weapon" on property?

2. One Hostage Died.

During the siege that ended the standoff at the Colorado school one hostage died. The loss of one innocent person, particularly a child, is a tragedy. But it was one, not ten, not twenty, and not more than one hundred. We Americans have short memories and don't really seem to care when bad stuff happens outside our borders. Everyone can tell you what happened at Colombine. How many could tell you what happened in Beslan? How many American citizens can tell you that it was Islamic terrorists, who tortured — yes tortured, and murdered children in Beslan?

3. Schools are Cherries.

If you are a psychopath with a statement to make, whether you are an ordinary lunatic or a member of a political/religious fanatic cell, you need a few ingredients to terrorize the nation. First you need a ready supply of helpless victims. It used to be an airplane full of hostages, but that has become too difficult to pull off. Next you need the tools to threaten and kill. Any firearm will do, but again, knives work too. Homemade bombs are easy enough to make with household chemicals. Of course, you need a willing media to broadcast the horror into every living room in the nation — live if possible.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Yes sam what about your favorite terrorist brothers, in the name of Allah,

It was Islamic terrorists, who tortured — yes tortured, and murdered children in Beslan, 344 civilians were killed, 186 of them children, and hundreds more wounded, in the name of the Prophet and Allah.

 

[S.A.M.]

He was born in South Korea but made in America.

Seems like he had serious grievances against economic inequality in America.

I wonder whats on the rest of the video material.

He was just playing the blame game, but even he could not have predicted the amount of dissection going on in the news about him, none of which has any relevance to the shooting. They're analysing his opinions on Christianity for heavens sake!

 

[Buffalo Roam]

James R

Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself. You're saying he decided this, and chose to do that, and that he made the choices he did as the result of some kind of reasoning process and (importantly) not on a spur-of-the-moment impulse. That makes him rational, by your own argument.

No contradictions, he made the decisions, he did this over time, they were all the wrong decisions, and all it would have taken from him was the decision to admit that he was failing, and seek outside help and this might have been avoided, and no he wasn't rational by my argument, every thing he did was irrational, you don't have to be rational to make decisions on the information that you perceive, and your perceptions being irrational helps to form responses that are not rational to the situation.

 

[madanthonywayne]

I know why you want to, of course. It's so you don't have to bear any of the blame.

The blame rests solely on the shoulders of one man. Typical liberal moral relativism, always asigning blame everywhere but where it really belongs.

Internet abuzz over shooter's mysterious markings
All at once, the world went searching for the meaning of "Ismail Ax."

Almost as soon as the Chicago Tribune's Web site reported that detail, which then was picked up by news organizations around the world, the blogosphere filled with theories about the possible meaning of "Ismail Ax." Hundreds of bloggers speculated on a link to Islam or to literature; thousands offered their opinions and millions read the commentaries, according to Technorati.com.

As for the term's meaning, one popular theory comes from a story in the Quran, the holy book of Islam, about Ibrahim and his son, Ismail. This theory picked up speed because many bloggers wondered if the shootings could be related to terrorism.

Two theories come from literature, where Ismail is spelled Ishmael.

In one, tied to James Fenimore Cooper's novel "The Prairie," Ishmael Bush is known as an outlawed warrior, according to an essay written in 1969 by William Goetzmann, a University of Texas History professor. In Cooper's book, "Bush carries the prime symbol of evil — the spoiler's axe," the professor wrote.

Also, the narrator from "Moby Dick," Ishmael, is considered an enigma who is well-educated yet considers his time on a whaling ship worthy of time at Yale or Harvard, according to education site Sparknotes.com.

Cho was an English major at Virginia Tech.

Other theories speculate that Ismail Ax could be a reference to Cho's nickname on a video-gaming site or that it is a misspelling of Turkish hip-hop artist Ismail YK. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003670889_shootax18.html?syndication=rss

 

[John99]

JamesR:

He shot them precisely to "assuage his own failure in life". He knew that by doing this, he would gain huge media coverage and become "famous". In his frame of mind, it was a perfectly rational choice of what to do to get what he wanted.

DeepThought:

He was born in South Korea but made in America.

Seems like he had serious grievances against economic inequality in America.

I wonder whats on the rest of the video material.

I really think you guys have no conception of what is involved here. He was trying to rationalize what he did and in doing this he wanted peopele to think there was a reason.

When the reality is the only reason was his mental state, i can guarantee you that he knew full well that he was in serious trouble and no one wants to willingly commit mass murder. Murder in and of itself is unnatural and goes against nature but whatever chemicals released in his brain took control and at that moment he was no longer in control of his actions, he was in point of fact at their mercy.

Taks a suicide bomber, you can look to justify it any way you want but why then is'nt it the ring leader slapping the explosives to his body and blowing himself up, instead of the one who has the emotional problem ?

 

[dixonmassey]

It seems that most people here don't get it, the guy was a loser, and your trying to understand him as a rational person, that is your mistake, the guy wasn't rational, he was irrational, and didn't care that he was, he didn't seek any help for his problems, he just took his piss off out on the nearest people that he had in his reach, you are trying to understand this as a rational act and it was any thing but rational, banning guns won't stop this from happening, placing a police officer on every corner won't stop this from happening, making schools a gun free zone won't stop this from happening, all it will do is make it safe for the walking pieces of self centered shit to kill easier, The government doesn't have to protect you, the police don't have to protect you, that is case law in ever country that I can find the information on, it is up to you to protect your self, that means start making a plan think it out, look for what your going to do if this situation happens to you, and you are required to do the thinking before hand, either plan to defend your self, and make the choice to skirt the law by being armed, or get a CCW permit, plan a escape route from every place that you frequent, but do some planning before the situation ever happens, that means you have to be aware of your situation, ,you have to know were the escape route are, and you have to make you decisions as to what your going to do as it happens.

That attitudes like yours will help the number of "losers" on the edge to grow, you may order some kind of the armored cocoon in advance and plan, plan, plan,..... untill your brain will be boiled stiff. For many people, becoming a "loser" is the most acceptable and honest response to the environment. For some, "winners" or aspiring "winners" become less than human, deserving no life.

 

[Chatha]

you think gun control will prevent this kinda shit?

illegal guns will always be found.

i live in CANADA where there's way less guns. when i was 15 i was offered to buy a Glock. how would gun control have prevented me from getting that gun?

you think criminals buy their guns from a store?

the only thing that concerns me about this story is whether the shooter was you-know-what or not.

Well, when a 25 year old student can purchase a gun, thats poor gun control. I don't know where he got the gun from though. This sort of thing usually occur in close knit enviroments like schools, jobs, e.t.c. Some people aren't as social others, just like some people easily drop the guntlet under pressure. Naturally, I blame the parents for kids like these. I wonder how the poor girlfriend feels after all these. The problem with America is that its getting too individualistic. Every individual holds a great amount of sway and power, also civil rights, and civil duties. Technology and an array of subcultures are not helping either, everybody can get customized news and entertainment from sources like the internet, online TV, portable media, e.t.c. There is too much focus on the individual in America, and some individuals fall apart. I'm not saying we should all go back to forming clans and tribes, but there was obviously very little supervision on that fellow.

 

[dixonmassey]

no one wants to willingly commit mass murder

You are joking or hibernating.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

dixonmassey

Originally Posted by Buffalo Roam
It seems that most people here don't get it, the guy was a loser, and your trying to understand him as a rational person, that is your mistake, the guy wasn't rational, he was irrational, and didn't care that he was, he didn't seek any help for his problems, he just took his piss off out on the nearest people that he had in his reach, you are trying to understand this as a rational act and it was any thing but rational, banning guns won't stop this from happening, placing a police officer on every corner won't stop this from happening, making schools a gun free zone won't stop this from happening, all it will do is make it safe for the walking pieces of self centered shit to kill easier, The government doesn't have to protect you, the police don't have to protect you, that is case law in ever country that I can find the information on, it is up to you to protect your self, that means start making a plan think it out, look for what your going to do if this situation happens to you, and you are required to do the thinking before hand, either plan to defend your self, and make the choice to skirt the law by being armed, or get a CCW permit, plan a escape route from every place that you frequent, but do some planning before the situation ever happens, that means you have to be aware of your situation, ,you have to know were the escape route are, and you have to make you decisions as to what your going to do as it happens.

That attitudes like yours will help the number of "losers" on the edge to grow, you may order some kind of the armored cocoon in advance and plan, plan, plan,..... until your brain will be boiled stiff. For many people, becoming a "loser" is the most acceptable and honest response to the environment. For some, "winners" or aspiring "winners" become less than human, deserving no life.

Again Bull Shit, they are the ones who make the choices in their lives, and in doing so they are the one that are ultimately responsible for their actions, and it is a sad fact that by the laws of this country and the case law from the courts the Police do not have a responsibility to protect the individual citizen, it is up to you to protect your self, just Google ("police don't have to protect individual") and see for your self, the courts have rendered decision after decision that the Police do not have a responsibility to protect the Individual, and that they even don't have to respond when you call, so tell me were is the paranoia? luckily the states in this country are the size of countries, and the chance of this happening is rare, but it happens, and it is not paranoia to look to options to protect your self or get yourself the hell out of a bad situation, it is just prudence, and it may save your life and the lives of your loved one to pay attention to your options, be it to fight, or the evade, a escape route is a handy thing to have noticed in these situations don't you think.

 

[MetaKron]

Yeah, Buffalo, they make that choice like they choose to bruise up and bleed when you use them for punching bags.

 

[Genji]

I wonder if the killer could have murdered 32 people with a knife?

 

[MetaKron]

I wonder if the killer could have murdered 32 people with a knife?

Or with a Genji pie?

 

[dixonmassey]

Again Bull Shit, they are the ones who make the choices in their lives, and in doing so they are the one that are ultimately responsible for their actions,

Are you
a) fly
b) God? (I'm not sure if there is a one though)

Only in those cases your revalations will hold water.

Basically, you suggest to comform to the rules and run a rat race (planning for self-defence, of course). If one doesn't comform or if conformity does not bring cherished goodies, one is a loser deserving .... (not much in any case). It doesn't come to your successful , planning 24/7 for self-defense, mind that a "loser" may think just the same about you. You've conformed, you've gotten close to the trough, disregarding everything and everybody, = you are soulless genetic waste, deserving no life. Just try to turn tables around once in a while.