de-conversion technique

[Joeman]

I am going to start a thread about my experience. I have been having decent success so far. All friends now are beginning to see the truth and begin to have doubt. I still having friends who want to be sheeps in light of strong evidence. I want to start a thread about different technique for different people.

1. The number one most important thing is to prove to Christians that bible has errors - not just one or two but hundreds. You have to memorize those places in the bible and be familiar with common apologetic ideas. You don't just walk up to their face and show them that. You have to go to church regularly and be friends with them for awhile and start an "innocent" discussion.

Many of them will be confused and scared or angry. Don't expect them to change their view on inerrancy right away. It will take time. Sometimes in their lifes they may decide to look at things objective but not necessarily at that moment.

If you can prove to them that bible is errant, it's important to know how to drive the nail in the coffen. You want to keep interrogating them where they know everything and how do they know if it is true. You don't stop until they say the bible. Then you say if the bible is not true, how do you know anything else is true, including the part which Jesus is God? You want to show them that God does not contradict himself and is not the authorship of confusion.

You don't proceed to the next step until you have convinced them that the bible contain errors. Otherwise nothing else will work. Remember, the only thing that can prove the errancy of the bible is bible itself. This is very important.

The next few steps will require a lot of study.

2. convince them that Jesus fails messianic requirement. This is very easy. Just to go Jewish websites or talk to a Jew.

3. Show them all failed prophesies in the bible. There are hundreds of them.

4. Show them Paul's deceptive practices. He misquotes lots of passages from OT and twist their meanings. Checkout the book "biblical errancy" by Dennis Mckinley.

5. Show them Jesus' own failed prophecies or mistakes. He said this generation will not pass until he returns or Christians will not finish moving around Israel until he returns. He said Moses wrote the Torah. He violates the laws of Torah himself and he sinned under the law.

So far I have had a lot of success. I will be a life long missionary to de-program people from the evil Christianity.

Now my technique works extremely well on fundies. It doesn't work as well on liberal Christians because they don't see things literally. However, liberals are not as much of a threat as fundies are.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Joeman: I am going to start a thread about my experience. I have been having decent success so far. All friends now are beginning to see the truth and begin to have doubt. I still having friends who want to be sheeps in light of strong evidence. I want to start a thread about different technique for different people.

1. The number one most important thing is to prove to Christians that bible has errors - not just one or two but hundreds. You have to memorize those places in the bible and be familiar with common apologetic ideas. You don't just walk up to their face and show them that. You have to go to church regularly and be friends with them for awhile and start an "innocent" discussion.

Many of them will be confused and scared or angry. Don't expect them to change their view on inerrancy right away. It will take time. Sometimes in their lifes they may decide to look at things objective but not necessarily at that moment.

If you can prove to them that bible is errant, it's important to know how to drive the nail in the coffen. You want to keep interrogating them where they know everything and how do they know if it is true. You don't stop until they say the bible. Then you say if the bible is not true, how do you know anything else is true, including the part which Jesus is God? You want to show them that God does not contradict himself and is not the authorship of confusion.

You don't proceed to the next step until you have convinced them that the bible contain errors. Otherwise nothing else will work. Remember, the only thing that can prove the errancy of the bible is bible itself. This is very important.

The next few steps will require a lot of study.

2. convince them that Jesus fails messianic requirement. This is very easy. Just to go Jewish websites or talk to a Jew.

3. Show them all failed prophesies in the bible. There are hundreds of them.

4. Show them Paul's deceptive practices. He misquotes lots of passages from OT and twist their meanings. Checkout the book "biblical errancy" by Dennis Mckinley.

5. Show them Jesus' own failed prophecies or mistakes. He said this generation will not pass until he returns or Christians will not finish moving around Israel until he returns. He said Moses wrote the Torah. He violates the laws of Torah himself and he sinned under the law.

So far I have had a lot of success. I will be a life long missionary to de-program people from the evil Christianity.

Now my technique works extremely well on fundies. It doesn't work as well on liberal Christians because they don't see things literally. However, liberals are not as much of a threat as fundies are.
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M*W: I've always said that before you can teach christians the truth, you must de-program them first. This is the hardest part of the deprogramming. This evil that engulfs them keeps them in denial. They are addicted to their religion, and like any addiction, be it alcohol or crack cocaine, it becomes their master and they are the slaves.

 

[Joeman]

What do you mean by de-program? That's interesting to know.

My technique doesn't work on everyone. Use the contradiction part for example, many people I have spoken to believe that there are explanations out there to prove that there is no contradictions, but they just don't have it. They probably won't have them in their life time until they get to heaven.

There are girls who say they "feel" that the bible is without error, even though I show them there are hundreds.

Some say God is beyond human logic and comprehension. They are seeing some contradictions but in actuality there aren't any. It's just that the bible is written by God so humans can't understand it.

I mean I have no defense against irrational argument except to convince them that they are being irrational.

But luckily I have ran into enough people who are willing to examine their faiths more objectively.

My best friend just de-converted after hearing my lecture on geneology of Jesus, how Matthew and Luke contradict each other, the part about Matthew run into the curse of Jeconiah and Luke traces through Nathan, which means Jesus is not the messiah. However, before that I have already spent a lot of time with him to convince him. He used to be very defensive but now he is seeing the truth.

The whole ordeal takes 7 months.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Joeman: What do you mean by de-program? That's interesting to know.
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M*W: I don't have a specific program of de-conversion. I play it by ear according to the individual, because everyone will react differently.
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Joeman: My technique doesn't work on everyone. Use the contradiction part for example, many people I have spoken to believe that there are explanations out there to prove that there is no contradictions, but they just don't have it. They probably won't have them in their life time until they get to heaven.

There are girls who say they "feel" that the bible is without error, even though I show them there are hundreds.

Some say God is beyond human logic and comprehension. They are seeing some contradictions but in actuality there aren't any. It's just that the bible is written by God so humans can't understand it.

I mean I have no defense against irrational argument except to convince them that they are being irrational.

But luckily I have ran into enough people who are willing to examine their faiths more objectively.

My best friend just de-converted after hearing my lecture on geneology of Jesus, how Matthew and Luke contradict each other, the part about Matthew run into the curse of Jeconiah and Luke traces through Nathan, which means Jesus is not the messiah. However, before that I have already spent a lot of time with him to convince him. He used to be very defensive but now he is seeing the truth.
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M*W: The genealogy of Jesus has been written and documented by various authors. This topic speaks for itself. It's always good to show them Jesus' pedigree. It's amazing just how many christians will refute the truth! That's because they've been 'programmed' to refute it. Every christian that I've spoken to is surprised to see such a document, but it does make them think about it.
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Joeman: The whole ordeal takes 7 months.
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M*W: My, my, you have it down to a science!

 

[Q25]

There are girls who say they "feel" that the bible is without error, even though I show them there are hundreds.

I guess you'll have to explain what "error" actualy means.
talking to a brainwashed theist is simmilar like talking to a five year old

Some say God is beyond human logic and comprehension.

why?humans can comprehend anything,IF God created them in His image and if they ate from the tree of knowledge ,we would be like God then
and if God was beyond logic he would become illogical,imposible to exist!

there was a thred just on this subject recently at www.infidels.org/index.shtml

They are seeing some contradictions but in actuality there aren't any. It's just that the bible is written by God so humans can't understand it.

you should ask them if they cant understand it,why should they read it?

 

[Michael]

Why stop with Xians? I have the same discussions with Muslims (almost all of them think the Qur’an is w/o error). They say the EXACT same things as Xians. You can hardly tell the two religions apart.

Anyway, regardless of who, if you decide to “liberate” a theist you have to ask yourself – why? Many theists are connected to their family/communities through their theistic beliefs and so if they stopped believing they'd then lose their familial connection and possibly end up worse off for it.

And, all of us live under assumptions, we’re tied to our time, our language, our culture, . . . .. we all live in our own little illusions of reality.

So, why is it so important that this particular meme be broken? And I must wonder – what will replace it? Will the replacement be any better? Maybe, but maybe not? And I assure you - there will be a replacement. Take communism. My communist friend (Chinese) was taught in elementary school that religion is brainwashing, there are no Gods – yet he is communist (sort of a modern approach to belief) . . . . is it really any better?

 

[Joeman]

So, why is it so important that this particular meme be broken? And I must wonder – what will replace it? Will the replacement be any better?

Oh Mine! Get yourself educated please.

Christianity has been the biggest source of intellectual oppression, slavery, discrimination against women and homosexuals. Why? Because the bible says so. More people died (20 million in Europe alone minus holocaust) because of Christianty than any other religion. The OT says nonbelievers have to be killed. Europeans were doing exactly that when they conquer north and south America. It was estimated that 97% of native Americans were killed when white men come to America! including women and children. 100% natives were killed in Argentina. There are moral justification in the bible for doing that believe it or not.

Look, without religion, any morals are relative. However religions make things easier for people because it defines clearly for you. However, when those morals are outdated by 2000 years or more, you have a problem.

 

[isis25]

i think that the christian religion has some errors but you should respect that they are secure with their beliefs and you should be able to have healthy debate with them without feeling like you must convert them to atheism. if christianity did not exist than there would be nothing to oppose.

 

[Michael]

Oh Mine! Get yourself educated please.

geeze one’d think a doctorate is good enough?

Christianity has been the biggest source of intellectual oppression, slavery, discrimination against women and homosexuals. Why? Because the bible says so. More people died (20 million in Europe alone minus holocaust) because of Christianty than any other religion. The OT says nonbelievers have to be killed. Europeans were doing exactly that when they conquer north and south America. It was estimated that 97% of native Americans were killed when white men come to America! including women and children. 100% natives were killed in Argentina. There are moral justification in the bible for doing that believe it or not.

I know this may come as a surprise but believe it or not – these things have been happening through all of time and through all of the world regardless of what the belief system is.

Wow, I guess in December of 1937 when the Japanese conquered Nanjing - killing, rapping, and massacring 300 Thousand civilians in a few weeks it must have been because of Xianity.

Come to think about it – all the wars the Romans fought . .. . . . Xianity. Yeah, I bet when Julius Caesar chopped the hands off from 3000 male Gauls and sent them to beg throughout Southern Europe to act as a deterrent to other would be start ups – yup Xianity (even though it hadn’t be invented yet)

I guess when Genghis Khan conquered China, Russia, E. Europe, Persia, Baghdad etc, , , YUP Xianity

The millions that died under Stalin . . . Christianity (even though Russia was atheistic)

All the Worlds Ills fall at the feet Xiantiy.

Thanks Joeman fur set-N me straight, and here I was think-N it might just be the way peoples think and act and stuff . . .. . . but yous maken good cents, I’ll get to reading them thar bOOks right quickly.

Don’t want to be dum no do I? No sur-E-bub . . . dum deed um dum dum.. . . . :bugeye:

Look, without religion, any morals are relative. However religions make things easier for people because it defines clearly for you. However, when those morals are outdated by 2000 years or more, you have a problem.

So when the Chinese were massacred by the Japanese and the Japanese justified it because they were going to bring the Chinese into the modern era (whether they liked it or not) . . yup, Christianity.

AND THEN when, not learning a damn thing from history, when the Chinese massacred a bunch of Tibetans under the guise that “hey we’re going to bring these backwards f*cks into the Modern era” . . again, all Xianity.

No it has nothing to do with Human Nature . . . . nope, not a God Damn thing it’s all just Xianity.

Pffff . . . . . yeah right

Somehow I doubt things are as simple as you may see them.

 

[Joeman]

Michael, my logic is based on that the world today will be a lot better without Christianity than with Christianity. Your logic is based on that what Christians did was perhaps okay because other cultures do bad things too. How many people died because of Buddhism? You think it has absolutely nothing to do with the religion itself? Is it really all cultural? Does Buddhism say you suppose to kill non-believers? Or Buddhism is the only way or else you go to hell? Does Buddhism says homosexuals should to stoned to death? Most people here easily see your faulty logic. I don't need to explain it further.

 

[Joeman]

i think that the christian religion has some errors but you should respect that they are secure with their beliefs and you should be able to have healthy debate with them without feeling like you must convert them to atheism. if christianity did not exist than there would be nothing to oppose.

Missionaries can convert others to Christianity but I can't do the opposite?

I would leave them alone normally, but now we have a moronic fundie president voting against stem cell research, which can potentially save billions of lifes and he enjoys bombing Faluja hospital for Jesus.

 

[surenderer]

I guess my question would also be why bother? Non-believers constantly whine about Believers trying to force their beliefs down their throats but arent you doing the same? You say the world would be better off without Christianity but most Christians would say that the world would be better off without atheists also wouldnt they? "Dont you dare try to convince me I'm wrong but let me convince you that you are wrong"....that logic doesnt make since Are you really niauve(sp?) to believe that if all religion was gone then people would all get along? People would then start hating each other for racial issues or probably even hair or eye color. It's a fact that when someone feels bad about themselves the only way they can make themselves feel better is to try to put someone beneath them....would that change? Crimes by religious nuts would still be happening even if there wasnt any religions because they would still be nuts wouldnt they? You say that Christians believe that the Bible is 100% true and they are wrong but all a Christian has to say to you is that 500 yrs ago nonbelievers thought they had the answers to science etc....yet they were wrong so what makes you think that 500 yrs from now people wont be debunking what you today hold to be true?.....as a matter of fact if one learns from history them chances are the answers you think you have today ARE wrong. So if that is indeed true then how could you critize someone elses beliefs? Because there's is more ridiculous than yours? I can guarentee you that since most relgious people think (be them right or wrong) that they will be judged for their actions they did while they were alive after they die it makes a much more peaceful society

 

[Lemming3k]

I have to say it makes for an intersting read, but i dont care what religion someone is, if they wish for a debate then fair enough, if i convince them they are wrong then fine, but i refuse to go down to their level and am dissappointed in anyone that would, naturally the irony of 'dont force atheistic beliefs down my throat, by the way, jesus loves you and god is wonderful etc etc' irritates me when i encounter it, but i'll save any arguements for counter attacking purposes only, theres still many unanswered questions in the world which are much more worthy of our time and interest than religions.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

isis25: i think that the christian religion has some errors but you should respect that they are secure with their beliefs and you should be able to have healthy debate with them without feeling like you must convert them to atheism. if christianity did not exist than there would be nothing to oppose.
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M*W: I don't make a habit of seeking out christians to de-convert them. I always allow them to bring it up first. Usually this is accomplished by christians who try to force their beliefs down my throat. This tells me they are obsessed. Then I proceed to converse with them on their level. It's just easier to reach them on their level. Then I point out the fallacies of whatever it is they say to me. I keep it non-confrontational. Invariably, they are unable to debate the points. They can 'dish it out', but they can't take it, etc.. It makes them curious to say the least. They want to know more about what I have to say so THEY can refute it. It works everytime. My method is to keep it simple and make my point by questioning them in a sincere way. Then the deprogramming starts, and they are left speechless.

 

[Michael]

Michael, my logic is based on that the world today will be a lot better without Christianity than with Christianity. Your logic is based on that what Christians did was perhaps okay because other cultures do bad things too.

Firstly, that is NOT my point AT ALL.

1) Yeah, the world may indeed be a better place without Xianity – but I doubt it, whatever religion there is it will be used at some point to rally people nationally to go kill some other people.

2) I did NOT say its OK that Xians do this or that or anything. Yes, they suck arse and have destroyed many cultures as they assimilated the planet (except Mongolia, China and Japan). Perhaps, the Japanese were right when they wiped every Xianian they could find off the islands (Those that survived are called “The Hidden Christians” –they’re still around today!)

What I am saying is that IT WOULDN”T MATTER. Because of human nature, men would kill men, nations would fight nations and nothing would have been any different. ALL nations have fought their neighbors – REGARDLESS of religion. So it really doesn’t matter if it’s Xianity or Islam or Buddhism or my favorite – Taoism, there’d still be wars and atrocities and massacres. JUST like the examples that I gave you!

How many people died because of Buddhism?

Many people, Buddhists used the religion to rally their people and fight wars just as all religions do –WWII ring any bells? You do know that there are a large number of Japanese Buddhists? Hell, I’d say Buddhism was one of the WORSE things to happen to Japan (and my partners father is a Japanese Buddhist priest!). The introduction of Buddhism brought other misogynistic Chinese literature to Japan – which was very unfortunate for the women.

Not to mention the Buddhists Monk wars fought. For example: Finally having had enough of the Tendai sect of Buddhist warrior monks, Oda Nobunaga (the Person that united Japan) in the middle of the the 1500’s surrounded Mt. Hiei and razed the famous Enryakuji temple complex along with anything or anyone else on the mountain - finally annihilating the Buddhist warrior monks and putting an end to their fighting against him.

So you can see: we can go from nation to nation, from one time to another , from the new world to the old world and from one religion to another – IT DOESN”T MATTER. Human nature dictates that we kill one another, and it happens regardless of religion and will continue to happen regardless of religion AND THAT IS MY POINT.

You think it has absolutely nothing to do with the religion itself? Is it really all cultural? Does Buddhism say you suppose to kill non-believers? Or Buddhism is the only way or else you go to hell? Does Buddhism says homosexuals should to stoned to death?

I didn’t say Xianity was a good religion – no it’s shite, that’s what happens when you base a religion around tribal Middle East culture. Shit.

That said, get a book and also open it and maybe read it:
1) Homosexuality:
i) Homosexuality was considered sinful in Ancient Roma,
ii) If I remember correctly even the blatantly homosexual Greeks write that Socrates was put to death for taking a bit-O’ pleasure with a young boy.
iii) etc. . .

2) Kill non-believers:
i) Yeah that doesn’t surprise me, but could you show me where The Bible says to go out and kill non-believers? I would have thought it’d say convert them?
ii) Regardless, so does many religions, take Islam for instance or the Torahs perception of treating non-Jewish . . .. its all the same.

3) Buddhism may not say you’re going to hell (as there is no such fantasy land) but it does teach it’s followers that IT is the true way and the other ways are not so. Which is how all religions are.

Lastly, if your point is that Middle Eastern based religions are primitive, unenlightened and just a reflection of the culture – sure I’ll agree.

But if you think that, had the world become Buddhist, somehow this is going to override national identity and end war and crime and discimination and murder and "poof" wonder wonder land – you're completely nuts.

And if you think Atheism is going to somehow make the world heaven on earth – again you're nuts.

And a matter of fact – it doesn’t matter what fairy creatures you believe in, as HISTORY shows, wars will still occur and crimes and hate and every other response of human nature will go on – REGARDLESS.

Most people here easily see your faulty logic.

Where would that be?

I don't need to explain it further.

Sure you do – you started the thread after all.



Lastly, I’m not faulting your opinion or you goal of trying to deprogram your friends.

I’m telling you that it may not be that great for them in the end. Their your friends not mine - so I really could care less. But, I wonder, what does it matter? Is their life going to suddenly become this wondrous place? And if they loose their family – will it have been worth it? If they one day jump from a bridge – will you say to yourself: “Well at least they knew the truth and could die knowing there were no Gods”.

For me I was able to break out of the Xian brainwashing and realize it was all a load of shite. It was one of the BEST THINGS TO HAPPEN TO ME. Thank Gods

But that’s me. Who am I to go off trying to convert people over to my truth? And if I do – am I not just as bad as them? I personally think that some people are better off as they are. Only some of us are able to break free and live a good life - - - others just become miserable and eventually fall into believing some other crap (see scientology).

SO maybe it’s best to let these people come to their own conclusions. I’m not saying its wrong to debate and have discussions with your religious friends. But why go through the deceit and deception just to trick them into thinking just like you? Is that the type of friend you are? Can't you trust them? I think it’s best to be honest and tell them “look I think it’s all BS and this is why” and if they are able to “get it” then that’s great and if not then that’s fine as well.

You’re starting to sound like some of these atheists I see standing on the corner of Town Hall in the City – they sound just as crazy as the religious nutters!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Michael:
1) Homosexuality:
i) Homosexuality was considered sinful in Ancient Roma,
ii) If I remember correctly even the blatantly homosexual Greeks write that Socrates was put to death for taking a bit-O’ pleasure with a young boy.
iii) etc. . .
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M*W: I disagree with item 'i'. Homosexuality was prevalent in ancient Rome. It was a customary practice for married men to take young boys for sexual gratification. That way, it was not considered adultery. I don't know about Greeks, other than homosexuality was common among them, but I do know about the Romans. The caesars were notorious for this and brothals seemed to be located in many cities that were found in archeologic digs.

 

[Michael]

Michael:
1) Homosexuality:
i) Homosexuality was considered sinful in Ancient Roma,
ii) If I remember correctly even the blatantly homosexual Greeks write that Socrates was put to death for taking a bit-O’ pleasure with a young boy.
iii) etc. . .
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M*W: I disagree with item 'i'. Homosexuality was prevalent in ancient Rome. It was a customary practice for married men to take young boys for sexual gratification. That way, it was not considered adultery. I don't know about Greeks, other than homosexuality was common among them, but I do know about the Romans. The caesars were notorious for this and brothals seemed to be located in many cities that were found in archeologic digs.

I wouldn’t argue that Romans didn’t have homosexual relationships. But, compared with the Greeks, weren’t they a bit prudish? I would have thought that under Augustus it was considered immoral?

I once read about a famous Roman (maybe merchant?) that changed his name to something reflective of Athens and spent most of his time there due to the openness with which he could live as a homosexual – as, I would have assumed, this wasn’t the case in Roma at the time? So maybe the Romans went through periods of openness followed by conservativeness?

Don’t get me wrong – if we go back to our Japanese example, it wasn’t until Christianity that homosexuality started to be viewed with some distain. As with many societies where the female is cloistered away, the men eventually (perhaps because they only interact with men during puberty?) only find sex with other men a satisfying form of physical relationship.

I think you’ll find this was the case with many Samurai.

(incidentally, It doesn’t surprise me to hear that this is the case in KSA today – as the women are certainly covered and out of reach from most pubescent boys, that’s what I’ve been told anyway – it’s a Homosexual Mecca – literally!)

Here’s a little something from the net:
Roman Homosexuality:
1) Agrarian lifestyle
2) Republican statues were rarely nude (early republic)
3) Homosexuality associated with Greece (Plutarch, Cicero)
4) No evidence of broad institution like in Greek pottery
5) Language describing homosexuality are words that are borrowed from Greek (David Greenberg)
6) Lex Scantina: a lost text that was said to have made homosexual sex illegal
7) Some historians argue: When the Roman male citizen was active in a homosexual relationship, it appears that there was little hostility towards these relationships (unease would result, but not hostility). Despite the lack of hostility, these relationships were not institutionalized like in Greece.
8) Amy Richlin: scholars of Roman history have overlooked the hostility towards the passive partner in homosexual sex. Both Greece and Rome demonized men playing a "female" role in a homosexual relationship, but Rome lacked an institutionalized arrangement for homosexual sex like the arrangement of men and boys in Greece.

 

[Joeman]

Michael,

Killing non-believers was all over the Old Testament. The Jews don't really evangelize. There is another passaging in Samuel saying those who don't believe in the God of Israel should be killed. It's final's week so I don't have that much time. Christian would defend themselves saying those are old covenant and they don't really apply today. That is absolutely not true.

I have seen Christianity breaks up families and marriages. I mean people divorce or leave their family for no other reason but Christianity. I used to be a "born again" Christian myself and witnessed how messed up people are. You may feel differently if you have seen what I have seen.


[Deut 13:6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend tells you to worship other Gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death...

Deut 17:1 If a person living among you in your city is found doing evil in the eyes of God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshipped other Gods, bowing down to them .... stone the person to death. On testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.]

 

[surenderer]

This discussion seems to have turned to religion and homosexuality so let me ask you this.....If there was no religion are you then telling me that homosexuals would be accepted as normal into society? that seems to be niauve (sp) thinking because everyone knows that its human nature to dislike anything different than yourself.....thats been the root cause of racism, sexism etc.....not religion......religion is just an excuse used to promote immature ideas.If there wasnt any religion those bent on promoting these ideas would find another excuse :m:

 

[Lemming3k]

everyone knows that its human nature to dislike anything different than yourself.....thats been the root cause of racism, sexism etc.....not religion......religion is just an excuse used to promote immature ideas.If there wasnt any religion those bent on promoting these ideas would find another excuse

Human nature to dislike anything different to yourself? I havnt noticed that at all, in fact when humans are left to talk to people without making judgements they get on quite well even if they have a different skin colour or religion or whatever its only predetermined judgements that affect that. Such as when i've spoken to christians they find me quite pleasant, and then when they find out im atheist they go on about savior, being evil, devil worshipping, etc, its these predetermined judgements that make people dislike each other.