Dark matter annihilation detected

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Some astronomers have speculated that dark matter might have another property besides gravity in common with ordinary matter: It might come in two flavors, matter and anti-matter, that annihilate and emit high energy radiation when coming into contact. The leading class of particles in this category are called weakly interacting massive particles (WIMPS). If dark matter annihilation does occur, the range of options for the theoretical nature of dark matter would be considerably narrowed.
CfA astronomer Doug Finkbeiner and a team of colleagues believe they may have uncovered evidence of dark matter annihilation occurring at the center of the galaxy, while studying the spatial distribution of gamma-ray emission in the Milky Way, which could help us resolve the issue of what dark matter really is.

http://futurism.com/harvard-scientists-say-may-detected-dark-matter-annihilation/
http://phys.org/news/2016-03-signature-dark-annihilation.html
 
Wouldn't they have also picked up dark matter/anti-dark matter annihilation in the lab here on Earth if dark matter was actually a WIMP? If it is abundant as they say it is, then it would seem like there shouldn't have been any problem picking it up here.
 
Wouldn't they have also picked up dark matter/anti-dark matter annihilation in the lab here on Earth if dark matter was actually a WIMP? If it is abundant as they say it is, then it would seem like there shouldn't have been any problem picking it up here.
Well, anti-dark matter, like normal matter, isn't everywhere else there would be no dark matter.
 
Well, anti-dark matter, like normal matter, isn't everywhere else there would be no dark matter.
Why couldn't there be anti-dark matter in the form of WIMPS on Earth? It wouldn't react with other matter, so it wouldn't annihilate, unless it encountered WIMP dark matter.
 
If true, this would seem to drastically alter the findings of earlier research purporting to explain the non-abundance of antimatter in the present universe.

Both accounts cannot be true. If a dark matter/antimatter mix is there, it would need to permeate the entire galactic disk in order to account for Vera Rubin's anomalous rotation, which was used to predict the existence of dark matter in the first place. You may have noticed, there isn't all that much matter-antimatter annhilation going on out here in the suburbs. Why is that?

As I have observed in other threads, something about cosmology and the research associated with it appears to be running off the rails and with no adults present to moderate the outrageous speculative claims. This one seems to be a case in point.

Harvard in particular seems to have a tenuous grasp on the nature of reality, turning out graduates that can't even coherently explain what causes seasons, and misusing instruments in the BICEP fiasco. Most public school fifth graders have a better grasp of basic science.
 
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Harvard in particular seems to have a tenuous grasp on the nature of reality, turning out graduates that can't even coherently explain what causes seasons, and misusing instruments in the BICEP fiasco. Most public school fifth graders have a better grasp of basic science.
What a completely outrageous thing to say. Are you trying to be the Trump of the sciforum?
 
What a completely outrageous thing to say. Are you trying to be the Trump of the sciforum?
I have no association either with Harvard or the former Trump Universities.

The video of recent Harvard grads still in their caps and gowns from graduation ceremonies giving wrong answers about seasonal climate differences was viral while I was a science teaching intern. The Harvard BICEP fiasco makes its own case, but you will be attacked here by the likes of brucep for even mentioning the topic, for whatever reason.

I would hope that Harvard turned out to have more reputable accreditation in the subjects of the practice of law, political science, and economics than it does in basic science, but if it did not, how could anyone really tell? That exit interview would need to be assessed more intensively than a fifth grader would appreciate.

It is outrageous to claim that the 1/r velocity dependency of galactic disks for which dark matter is the hypothesis is due to a process that only takes place nearer the galactic centers. Like declaring the Earth is flat because it appears that way right outside of my window, for as far as I can see.
 
It is outrageous to claim that the 1/r velocity dependency of galactic disks for which dark matter is the hypothesis is due to a process that only takes place nearer the galactic centers. Like declaring the Earth is flat because it appears that way right outside of my window, for as far as I can see.
As per usual, danshawen is grossly misrepresenting the actual science. Dark matter is not supposed to be concentrated in galactic centers, nobody is making this claim. Nor is anyone ignoring the actual dynamics of galaxies by focusing on the dynamics of one region.

The actual claim being made in this particular article is that the increased density of dark matter in galactic cores should result in the creation of gamma radiation there. This radiation was detected. This is not great evidence as there are some other plausible explanations (though perhaps one could distinguish between the nature of this radiation if it were produced in from different sources).
 
If true, this would seem to drastically alter the findings of earlier research purporting to explain the non-abundance of antimatter in the present universe.
That is an interesting point. I will raise a couple counterpoints to it:

  1. Given that dark matter and normal fermionic matter don't seem to interact, I think that the way that non-antimatter came to be dominant would not necessarily apply, particularly if dark matter is primordial or all formed very early in the Big Bang. Normal matter would then go on to satisfy the Sakharov criteria and become unbalanced, but dark matter would never have satisfied the Sakharov criteria and thus would be balanced.
  2. Dark antimatter could be rare, but in the more concentrated environment of the galactic center, more likely to find dark matter to annihilate with. Remember also that unlike the mostly charged fermionic particles of normal matter, dark matter doesn't have many if any charges, so there wouldn't be attraction between dark matter and dark antimatter like there generally is between a normal matter particle and its antiparticle. Thus, only in places where there was a concentration would dark matter and dark antimatter be likely to collide and annihilate.
And nothing says that both of these cannot be true.

Both accounts cannot be true.
I'm not sure I understand what the first account is, nor how dark matter at lower concentrations in the galactic disk and halo not interacting precludes dark matter in the galactic center interacting. I think that needs a bit more explanation from you to detail precisely what you believe is contradictory.

If a dark matter/antimatter mix is there, it would need to permeate the entire galactic disk in order to account for Vera Rubin's anomalous rotation, which was used to predict the existence of dark matter in the first place.
Fritz Zwicky is generally credited with discovering dark matter in 1933, and Jacobus Kapteyn and Jan Oort with coming up with the idea in the first place, though Oort's hypothesis was not well supported by the data. I had to look Vera Rubin up. She was 5 years old when Zwicky published. I'm going with Zwicky's anomalous rotation being used to predict the existence of dark matter in the first place.

You may have noticed, there isn't all that much matter-antimatter annhilation going on out here in the suburbs. Why is that?
If dark matter interacts with normal matter through the gravity force, then it is reasonable to assume it is also acted on; thus, one would expect to find more dark matter in the galactic center just as, and for the same reasons as, one finds more normal matter in the galactic center.

As I have observed in other threads, something about cosmology and the research associated with it appears to be running off the rails and with no adults present to moderate the outrageous speculative claims. This one seems to be a case in point.

Harvard in particular seems to have a tenuous grasp on the nature of reality, turning out graduates that can't even coherently explain what causes seasons, and misusing instruments in the BICEP fiasco. Most public school fifth graders have a better grasp of basic science.
It's good to be skeptical; we can't all have the same opinions or there'd be nothing to talk about. However, dark matter is not an "outrageous speculative claim." It is well-founded and based on gravity theory; the only assumption is that galaxies out there follow the same rules of gravity as everything on Earth does, and since we make that assumption for everything else in physics, it seems to me rather inconsistent to fail to make it for gravity.

As far as BICEP2's initial reporting, and later retraction, of the claim to have found the signature of gravity waves in B-mode polarization of the CMB, the problem with it was caused by interstellar dust in our own galaxy, which they used the best available data at the time to estimate. That data turned out to be wrong, as shown by the Planck data set, and they promptly retracted when this new data became available. Neither faulty instrumentation, nor misuse of instrumentation, had anything to do with it. Nor did they behave like unruly children.
 
That is an interesting point. I will raise a couple counterpoints to it:

  1. Given that dark matter and normal fermionic matter don't seem to interact, I think that the way that non-antimatter came to be dominant would not necessarily apply, particularly if dark matter is primordial or all formed very early in the Big Bang. Normal matter would then go on to satisfy the Sakharov criteria and become unbalanced, but dark matter would never have satisfied the Sakharov criteria and thus would be balanced.
  2. Dark antimatter could be rare, but in the more concentrated environment of the galactic center, more likely to find dark matter to annihilate with. Remember also that unlike the mostly charged fermionic particles of normal matter, dark matter doesn't have many if any charges, so there wouldn't be attraction between dark matter and dark antimatter like there generally is between a normal matter particle and its antiparticle. Thus, only in places where there was a concentration would dark matter and dark antimatter be likely to collide and annihilate.
And nothing says that both of these cannot be true.

I'm not sure I understand what the first account is, nor how dark matter at lower concentrations in the galactic disk and halo not interacting precludes dark matter in the galactic center interacting. I think that needs a bit more explanation from you to detail precisely what you believe is contradictory.

Fritz Zwicky is generally credited with discovering dark matter in 1933, and Jacobus Kapteyn and Jan Oort with coming up with the idea in the first place, though Oort's hypothesis was not well supported by the data. I had to look Vera Rubin up. She was 5 years old when Zwicky published. I'm going with Zwicky's anomalous rotation being used to predict the existence of dark matter in the first place.

If dark matter interacts with normal matter through the gravity force, then it is reasonable to assume it is also acted on; thus, one would expect to find more dark matter in the galactic center just as, and for the same reasons as, one finds more normal matter in the galactic center.

It's good to be skeptical; we can't all have the same opinions or there'd be nothing to talk about. However, dark matter is not an "outrageous speculative claim." It is well-founded and based on gravity theory; the only assumption is that galaxies out there follow the same rules of gravity as everything on Earth does, and since we make that assumption for everything else in physics, it seems to me rather inconsistent to fail to make it for gravity.

As far as BICEP2's initial reporting, and later retraction, of the claim to have found the signature of gravity waves in B-mode polarization of the CMB, the problem with it was caused by interstellar dust in our own galaxy, which they used the best available data at the time to estimate. That data turned out to be wrong, as shown by the Planck data set, and they promptly retracted when this new data became available. Neither faulty instrumentation, nor misuse of instrumentation, had anything to do with it. Nor did they behave like unruly children.
You dark matter history lesson did not include Vera Rubin? What was it which led Zwicky to conclude that dark matter was needed to explain any observation?
 
You dark matter history lesson did not include Vera Rubin? What was it which led Zwicky to conclude that dark matter was needed to explain any observation?
I will repeat, Vera Rubin was five years old when Zwicky discovered what he called the "missing mass." She didn't lead him to anything at all; he led her. She was born in 1928; he discovered the missing mass in 1933. See Wikipedia.

I also note you had no responses to my other points. That is indicative.
 
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If dark matter interacts with normal matter through the gravity force, then it is reasonable to assume it is also acted on; thus, one would expect to find more dark matter in the galactic center just as, and for the same reasons as, one finds more normal matter in the galactic center.

Thats interesting.....so one would expect to find more dark matter around a Black Hole ? If so and since dark matter interacts with normal matter gravitationally, the assessment of a BH parameters solely based on orbital motions of other nearby stars without considering the DM presence could be incorrect......
 
Thats interesting.....so one would expect to find more dark matter around a Black Hole ?
Not around an ordinary one, no, at least not a significantly greater amount than in the nearby galactic neighborhood several hundred light years around.
 
I will repeat, Vera Rubin was five years old when Zwicky discovered what he called the "missing mass." She didn't lead him to anything at all; he led her. She was born in 1928; he discovered the missing mass in 1933. See Wikipedia.

I also note you had no responses to my other points. That is indicative.
Your other points seem to be well reasoned. What was Zwicky's "missing mass" related to? Where was this missing mass? It is not that I am missing the critical information; it could be a simple problem with viewable region codes for our respective versions. It does happen. Nikola Tesla is only one example of accurate information that is censored here because it casts Edison in a bad electric light.

Vera Rubin, a friend of a friend, was denied admission to Princeton's physics and astronomy program in 1974 simply because she was a woman. So was Emmy Noeter, but a more enlightened Princeton of Einstein's era had no equivalent draconian gender bias. Perhaps this was due to Albert's influence. Princeton had no such misgivings or bias against admitting the likes of Edward Witten, who transferred to high energy physics from beginning a major in accounting. Some of us wish he had remained an accountant.

Vera managed to get admission to the Cornell astrophysics department and her observation of the anomalous 1/r velocity dependence for spiral galaxies is one of the most important discoveries in the history of astrophysics.
 
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Not around an ordinary one, no, at least not a significantly greater amount than in the nearby galactic neighborhood several hundred light years around.

Why ?

The Gravity (Spacetime curvature) is pretty high around BH, nature is impartial towards its kids (Dark and Normal matter), so why never the presence of DM is discussed around BH/MBH/SMBH....

This OP is attempting to establish that DM need not be in halo form (around a Galaxy), it could be there at center, suggesting everywhere, surely around SMBH....all caluclations change !
 
Your other points seem to be well reasoned. What was Zwicky's "missing mass" related to? Where was this missing mass? It is not that I am missing the critical information; it could be a simple problem with viewable region codes for our respective versions. It does happen.
The Wikipedia article on dark matter details the discovery by Zwicky in 1933, and the predictions by Kapteyn and Oort before that, and the Wikipedia article on Vera Rubin gives her birth date. Do you need links to these articles?

I'm glad you feel my points were well-reasoned, but I have to point out that you didn't further explain your claim that there was a contradiction. If you are withdrawing that claim please do me the favor of acknowledging that.
 
Because the density of DM isn't sufficient around an ordinary BH for its gravity to increase the density enough to cause the DM to have enough higher probability of interacting with the anti-DM to be measurable at hundreds of light years' distance, much less farther.

The Gravity (Spacetime curvature) is pretty high around BH, nature is impartial towards its kids (Dark and Normal matter), so why never the presence of DM is discussed around BH/MBH/SMBH....
Well, actually these are separate cases, BH and SMBH. A stellar mass BH has no more mass than a star, and we don't see DM collecting around stars, so why would we see it around stellar-mass BHs? On the other hand, the mass concentration in a galactic center has influence that extends across the galaxy and beyond, so it is no big surprise that the density of both DM and normal matter would be higher there. As, in fact, the concentration of normal matter actually is.

This OP is attempting to establish that DM need not be in halo form (around a Galaxy), it could be there at center, suggesting everywhere, surely around SMBH....all caluclations change !
There is nothing precluding a concentration in the halo, and another concentration in the galactic center. Not in the theory, and not in the OP. Do you claim otherwise?
 
I claim nothing yet.....

But please note that if DM presence is found or theorized around galactic center (or any galaxy center), then the central SMBH may need some parameter dressing..
 
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