Could all WWII Christian Nazis be in Heaven?

P

PsychoticEpisode

It is very dry in here today
Valued Senior Member
Many Nazis were devout Christians, even Herr Hitler. On God's scales of jugdement what was more important: belief in God or responsibility for 40 million deaths? Who goes to heaven... Nazi believers in Christ or Jewish holocaust victims? For that matter even atheist Nazis have a chance to get in.

As I have learned since joining this forum it really doesn't matter what you do in life but how you perform when you face God after your death. Sincerely accept Christ and its like nothing happened. I can't see that being difficult for Christian Nazis. Now if I croak, I know I won't be sincere if I meet a god, I'll eat a lot of crow while roasting for eternity. Hardly seems fair for a peace lover like myself. Somehow I just can't picture Heinrich Himmler and Billy Graham arm in arm forever or the Butcher of Buchenwald playing frisbee with Anne Frank? Gee, Anne probably had to do more convincing to get in. How do they keep the peace in heaven?
 
Considering Christianity's fucked up system of belief, the nazis probably would get into heaven.
Yet another reason Christianity is fucking stupid. Even mass murderers, war criminals, and the most deplorable psychopaths can get into heaven if they are christians.
:rolleyes: Morons, I say, morons every one.
 
I'm no expert but I don't think it works like that. To "accept Christ" pretty much means you also have to accept his teachings etc. The Catholics require you to do good deeds; the Protestants put more on faith but in the same way, seems a bit dubious and legalistic to me to imagine that the Nazis could do a volte-face at the last moment without actually being penitent. I mean, you can't go on and on doing evil with the plan that you'll turn tout just before the axe drops. If there's an omniscient being up there, I don't think s/he'd be fooled by that.

As for Nazis calling themselves Christians: think about it. Is that what this Jesus is supposed to have preached?

Geoff
 
GeoffP said:
I'm no expert but I don't think it works like that. To "accept Christ" pretty much means you also have to accept his teachings etc. The Catholics require you to do good deeds; the Protestants put more on faith but in the same way, seems a bit dubious and legalistic to me to imagine that the Nazis could do a volte-face at the last moment without actually being penitent. I mean, you can't go on and on doing evil with the plan that you'll turn tout just before the axe drops. If there's an omniscient being up there, I don't think s/he'd be fooled by that.

As for Nazis calling themselves Christians: think about it. Is that what this Jesus is supposed to have preached?

Geoff
Click to expand...

Why not?

Christians like yourself have told the forum that sincerely accepting JC at the pearly gates might get you the ticket to heaven.

A lot of Germany's Nazis thought God was on their side too.
 
It doesn't matter if you are Hitler or the Pope, you are just dust at the end of the day.
 
You're right but I still like to hear the Christian logic and try and make sense of it. I haven't ever heard anything from them that makes sense so I was hoping this topic might do it but alas it ain't gonna happen....again. Not even a biblical metaphor yet. Disappointing.

Ever wonder if there is a God, what the logic is behind the whole thing?

Personally I'm little confused. I have Christians telling me to live a good life and Christians telling me it doesn't matter as long as you're sincere in the end. That makes life pointless, doesn't it? Why wouldn't God just skip that part? Do we really need physical bodies that serve no purpose in the end? Why venture into the physical realm when it isn't even necessary? Did God think this one through?
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
You're right but I still like to hear the Christian logic and try and make sense of it. I haven't ever heard anything from them that makes sense so I was hoping this topic might do it but alas it ain't gonna happen....again. Not even a biblical metaphor yet. Disappointing.

Ever wonder if there is a God, what the logic is behind the whole thing?

Personally I'm little confused. I have Christians telling me to live a good life and Christians telling me it doesn't matter as long as you're sincere in the end. That makes life pointless, doesn't it? Why wouldn't God just skip that part? Do we really need physical bodies that serve no purpose in the end? Why venture into the physical realm when it isn't even necessary? Did God think this one through?
Click to expand...

But Psychotic Episode you have heard about the forgiveness that is available to sinners through the Messiah Jesus. It has been explained to you. You simply think it is foolishness. Your disappointed not in the fact that it has not been explained your disappointed it does not conform to your logic, what you think is right and proper. You might think sincerity is pointless but having the right spirit toward God in not pointless to me.

I don't recall anyone telling you that a person can accept Jesus "at the pearly gates" I have never said that.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
I never said you did say Pearly Gates. In fact I never even mentioned you Adstar. Why the worry? ...the point is that there is no point. Why encumber a soul with a body when the only thing that matters is how you act before God when your dead. Why go thru a life? There is no guarantee according to Christian logic but you could end up bunkmates with the German High Command in either of 2 places.
 
Speaking of Psychotic...

First, I'm not Christian. Secularist, evolutionist, thankee.

Second, anyone who claims you can get to heaven, if there even is such a place, while being a Nazi would probably be riding the short bus to school.

I could persecute - for example - pool players, and say it was God's will but here's the thing: their gospel doesn't say that. End o' story. Same goes for communism - have there been any really communist governments?

Whether you like Christianity or not, sit back and think about it. A persecutor of God's chosen people and all - going to the big H?

Really?

If you're asking for a logical argument observation here, well, look above. You're telling me that an evil person can convert and be good at the last second and use that as an excuse to do evil before the conversion. How?

Let's even take this point up in argument: if you do indeed repent before the last moment, and are doing so out of fear, how does this count as a real 'acceptance of the Good News' or whatever? It's out of fear, not love. How's that count? And you can hardly decide to be evil all the live-long-day and then switch at the last second and be sincere.

Geoff
 
GeoffP said:
Is that what this Jesus is supposed to have preached?
Click to expand...
Depends on your interperetation of the NT. It certainly seems like it does.
 
GeoffP said:
Speaking of Psychotic...


Whether you like Christianity or not, sit back and think about it. A persecutor of God's chosen people and all - going to the big H?

Really?

If you're asking for a logical argument observation here, well, look above. You're telling me that an evil person can convert and be good at the last second and use that as an excuse to do evil before the conversion. How?

Let's even take this point up in argument: if you do indeed repent before the last moment, and are doing so out of fear, how does this count as a real 'acceptance of the Good News' or whatever? It's out of fear, not love. How's that count? And you can hardly decide to be evil all the live-long-day and then switch at the last second and be sincere.

Geoff
Click to expand...

HEy, I'm with you. I said in the first post that I learned of that interpreation right here. I can't take credit. More than one Christian claims that it can be done. I just think something has gone totally haywire in their logic.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
I never said you did say Pearly Gates. In fact I never even mentioned you Adstar. Why the worry? ...the point is that there is no point. Why encumber a soul with a body when the only thing that matters is how you act before God when your dead. Why go thru a life? There is no guarantee according to Christian logic but you could end up bunkmates with the German High Command in either of 2 places.
Click to expand...

Why encumber a soul with a body when the only thing that matters is how you act before God when your dead

I don't believe that at all. Its what your relationship with God when you are alive that counts.

There is a guarantee. It is the Word of God. The trick is to never trust in oneself. But trust in God.

I could end up with a former gas chamber operator or a former homosexual bunking with me, i will leave that call up to God. And yes i could end up in either place depending on my belief in the Messiah Jesus.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
That must mean you forgive the gas chamber operators then. A giant step closer to the ultimate goal. Commendable.

Most holocaust victims were Jewish and most Germans Christian. An interesting dilemma of sorts. Of those two groups who would have a greater chance of entering god's backyard? Repentant Christian torturers and killers over non-Christians?
 
Me forgive? The gas chamber operators did not gas me. Its got nothing to do with me forgiving or not its all about if God forgives or not. If a gas chamber operator comes to repent from his/her actions and trusts in the Messiah Jesus for forgiveness of their sins then yes God will forgive them. Same with the homosexual, same with me, same with you.

Once again salvation is not a game of chance. One either has eternity with God or they don't.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
GeoffP....what did I tell ya?

Adstar...what about the Jewish gas chamber victims? Same? No chance?

Because Its the same God, would He just ask the victims if they sincerely forgive their killers as a pre-requisite to entry. Tough for God to ask non-Christians about accepting Jesus, no?
 
Adstar...what about the Jewish gas chamber victims? Same? No chance?
Click to expand...

Once again Chance has nothing to do with it.

Because Its the same God, would He just ask the victims if they sincerely forgive their killers as a pre-requisite to entry. Tough for God to ask non-Christians about accepting Jesus, no?
Click to expand...

What does it matter a jot if it is the same God. satan believes in God also. Believing in God does not save one, Believing God saves one. Anyone who rejects the Messiah Jesus does not have forgiveness.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Let's even take this point up in argument: if you do indeed repent before the last moment, and are doing so out of fear, how does this count as a real 'acceptance of the Good News' or whatever? It's out of fear, not love. How's that count? And you can hardly decide to be evil all the live-long-day and then switch at the last second and be sincere.

Geoff
Click to expand...

Yes Geoff sincerity cannot be faked before God. No one is going to fool God by using grace as a license to sin. They do not have the right spirit their fakes.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Hapsburg said:
Depends on your interperetation of the NT. It certainly seems like it does.
Click to expand...

Whoa, dude - where's that?

My call from flipping through it is that you have to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk. Isn't there a passage that goes: "He that [just] cries out "Lord, Lord!" will not have a place in the Kingdom of Heaven". The [just] is my call but I think it stands reason. Now you could say that was a temporal thing - like, if you're talking the talk while not actually doing anything remotely "Christian" - but at the same time it has to incorporate the whole "good deeds" concept. I also dimly recall Jesus talking about giving your neighbour your cloak and your something-or-other too (?) Whatever, let's just say cloak for now. Now that's a good deed - that's being as they say a "real" Christian as far as I can make out.

I think doing the theological shuffle at the last minute would fall into the same category. You didn't really "walk it", and so "talking it" now isn't going to help. Maybe if you really, actually regretted everything and had a real change of heart, that might cut the mustard. But think too: what if (hypothetical here) God then turns around and says: "Not just yet for you, chief. You have another 10 yrs." Now, if you turned right the hell back around and got jiggy with Hitler, that would clearly not count - and I figure an omniscient being's going to pick up on that, call me crazy. But if you instead said "Well, that's cool, I'm a-going to hand out cloaks and spread the Good News", then I think that would be a real change of heart. As in, it really has to be real. Really. Really real.

That's enough 'really's. But I think this is where the Protestants (who I think put more on the faith thing) are coming from, at their root, even if some are talking out their arses, metaphysically speaking. Dunno about Catholicism - I get the impression sin weighs you down in an ongoing kind of way (which could be good or bad, depending how you think about it) and that besides having faith, you have to "pay it backward", as in, make up for what you've done. Then again, if you were a real Christian (to take up the Protestant point, I think), you'd make up for it anyway, right?

Tricky.

That would seem logical (in a faith-based argument, which is odd) to me.

For no reason at all, I choose to include a ganja leaf in my posting.

:m:

Geoff
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
GeoffP....what did I tell ya?

Adstar...what about the Jewish gas chamber victims? Same? No chance?

Because Its the same God, would He just ask the victims if they sincerely forgive their killers as a pre-requisite to entry. Tough for God to ask non-Christians about accepting Jesus, no?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a good point here. I think it's wrong to say that, were there a God, Jesus would be the only way to him. The Jews have their reasons for not believing, and, since I wasn't there, who am I to say they're wrong? They should accept Jesus when they're being punished by mooks who think they're doing Jesus' work? That's a lot to accept. I don't think God would figure that to be fair (then again, I probably can't decipher the ways of an omniscient and omnipotent being, so please don't fry me with a lightning bolt). Would they have to forgive them under the Judaic system? Dunno.

Anyway, I wouldn't dregde ol' Thor up from the theology vault, but I think there's a few ways God would probably accept to get there. If he's fair, then he would give people their fair shot, is what I'm saying. So you can't expect a New Guinea tribeman (despite their predilection for human flesh, apparently; see the 'Cannibal' thread) to know about God and Christ and all that to be saved (again, assuming that's all correct) because, frankly, he wouldn't know about them. Would it be fair otherwise?

Isn't there something about 'testing people according to their abilities' in the NT? Or is that Old T? This seems to suggest what I'm saying.

Again, a whacky tabaccy leaf, for indeterminate reasons.

:m:

Geoff
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
That must mean you forgive the gas chamber operators then. A giant step closer to the ultimate goal. Commendable.

Most holocaust victims were Jewish and most Germans Christian. An interesting dilemma of sorts. Of those two groups who would have a greater chance of entering god's backyard? Repentant Christian torturers and killers over non-Christians?
Click to expand...

My call is: thems whut was "good".

Leaf.

:m:

Geoff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top