Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

Hipparchia said:
You would also need to add in lockdown, personal distancing, etc. Those have been as/more important than modern medicine, by keeping the infection away from the bulk of the population.
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From researching the Spanish flu, there appeared to be a good understanding of social distancing requirements how ever point taken.

Just some rough unqualified notes:
The Spanish flu:
Infected about 500 million people ( One third of the worlds population - stats c/o CDC )
Killed about 50 million (?) people.

No antibiotics
No vaccine.
No ventilators, MRI, Cat scans, Sophisticated X-ray etc.
Little to no clinical pathology.
No major supplemental oxygen supply.
Poor sanitation, water, sewage infrastructure.
Low levels of electrification. ( households, businesses etc)
Low level of knowledge about viruses etc...
Poor national communications ( no internet, TV, little telephony)
Poor international communications.
Not much in the way of international co-ordination.
Generally low levels of education in population.

Today:
We have ventilators , antibiotics, relatively clean hospitals, good access to medical care ( In the Western world) ( with exceptions of course)
Rapid pathological testing.
National and international pandemic strategies.. ( except the USA of course (sarc)
COVID-19
As of today confirmed infected
37,700,000
Deaths
1,081,000
and that is with the state of the art medical provisions, ICU, ventilators, oxygen supply etc...

I'd say 21st century medicine is saving our arses big time...

BUT, knowing this means that the COVID virus is a hell of a lot worse than the Spanish flu. IMO

The question I am pondering is :
How many of the confirmed cases survivors (today: 28,342,000) owe their lives to 21 century medical practice and services?
 
Quantum Quack said:
From researching the Spanish flu, there appeared to be a good understanding of social distancing requirements how ever point taken.

Just some rough unqualified notes:
The Spanish flu:
Infected about 500 million people ( One third of the worlds population - stats c/o CDC )
Killed about 50 million (?) people.

No antibiotics
No vaccine.
No ventilators, MRI, Cat scans, Sophisticated X-ray etc.
Little to no clinical pathology.
No major supplemental oxygen supply.
Poor sanitation, water, sewage infrastructure.
Low levels of electrification. ( households, businesses etc)
Low level of knowledge about viruses etc...
Poor national communications ( no internet, TV, little telephony)
Poor international communications.
Not much in the way of international co-ordination.
Generally low levels of education in population.

Today:
We have ventilators , antibiotics, relatively clean hospitals, good access to medical care ( In the Western world) ( with exceptions of course)
Rapid pathological testing.
National and international pandemic strategies.. ( except the USA of course (sarc)
COVID-19
As of today confirmed infected
37,700,000
Deaths
1,081,000
and that is with the state of the art medical provisions, ICU, ventilators, oxygen supply etc...

I'd say 21st century medicine is saving our arses big time...

BUT, knowing this means that the COVID virus is a hell of a lot worse than the Spanish flu. IMO

The question I am pondering is :
How many of the confirmed cases survivors (today: 28,342,000) owe their lives to 21 century medical practice and services?
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I am not disputing what you say, yet some things are left unsaid. Specifically:
  • In many countries those with minor symptoms are never tested and thus never confirmed
  • A proportion of those infected are asymptomatic
On the other hand a significant number of covid deaths are not directly identified. e.g. in the UK excess deaths above season norms suggest 25% - 40% more than the official figure.
 
I was re-reading the earlier posts to this thread and note the evolution of opinion as this virus has contaminated the globe..
It has been about 11 months since first reported in Wuhan China, noting then that reports of significant spread in China indicated that China had a big problem nationally. Yet According to data today China has recorded only 85,000 confirmed cases with only 4634 confirmed deaths.
Given the sheer size of the Chinese population and reports of national transmission how could they possibly believe their reported figures are believable?
We already know now from global experience that the Quarantine methods employed would have been terribly inadequate.
One can only wonder at just how bad things have been and are in China.
Population: 1.4 billion ( deaths : 4634)
Compare with India:
Population: 1.3 billion. ( deaths: 111,311*)

The 14 day incubation period would have seen China inundated as people traveled nationally during the New Year there.
While it is true the use of extreme Q methods are used in China I do not believe they would be as effective as indicated.

* under stated
=====
btw
Recent studies (CSIRO) have indicated the virus can remain active on shiny surfaces for up to 28 days.
 
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continued from; Virus's: Life or non life? Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics
↑ What we learn about viruses through studying them will not change by one iota because we have described them as living rather than non-living, of vice versa. I will add the caveat that this might not be the case if a researcher allows himself to be mislead by a bias towards expecting certain behaviour from a living over a non-living entity. But then, that wouldn't be good science.
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↑ I'm inclined to go with you and Dave on this.
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You may want to rethink this, Paddo.

Anyone who thinks this ability for communication is of no importance to humans they are quite wrong.

I post once again Bonnie Bassler's excellent concise presentation of the function of "quorum sensing" and how it may be exploited to efficiently fight bacterial and viral infection.

This is the short version. An in-depth presentation is also available on Youtube.

And anyone who refuses to watch this is doing themselves and science a disservice.
 
Write4U said:
And anyone who refuses to watch this is doing themselves and science a disservice.
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Ooooooo I am THAT important (and all you other Minions out there also) if I don't watch this video science is being disserviced

I don't mind doing myself a disservice, I do that a lot to myself and I'm used to it but science???

How can I, with a clear conscience disservice science and live with myself?

Just checked the video for 2 seconds, noticed it is 18 minutes long

Screw science, consider yourself disserviced science, live with it

Class dismissed

:)
 
In order to add context; Your microbiome consists of 10% human and 90% bacterial cells.
Symbiotic bacteria and viruses (bacteriophages) keep you alive.
Michael 345 said:
Screw science, consider yourself disserviced science, live with it
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In context.
If you wish to remain uninformed on new science, of course you are free to do so. It doesn't affect me in the least.
But IMO, by remaining uninformed you are doing the science of the next generation of anti-biotics a disservice, no?

And your practice is in Healthcare, no? So was I, until I retired, btw.

2 seconds????
 
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https://www.ck12.org/biology/Charac...son/Characteristics-of-Life-Advanced-BIO-ADV/
  • The seven characteristics of life include:
    • responsiveness to the environment;
    • growth and change;
    • ability to reproduce;
    • have a metabolism and breathe;
    • maintain homeostasis;
    • being made of cells; and
    • passing traits onto offspring.
Life 01.jpg
Life 02.jpg
Not all scientists agree exactly about what makes up life.
Ain't that the truth
There is not just one distinguishing feature that separates a living thing from a non-living thing.

I think viruses should be in the alive listings (disclaimer - I am not a Scientist)

The link at the start is only for reference. There is no obligation to go to the article

Be aware if you choose to remain ignorant of the article
  • your crops will wither
  • Beelzebub will become your companion
  • herds of black cats will sing to you all night
  • all ladders you encounter will be positioned such that you cannot avoid walking and them
  • salt with remain stubbornly in the shaker and refuse to go over your shoulder
  • all mirrors you encounter will shatter
  • all of the above will be on your bright days
3:30 in the morning here. Back to sleep for me

:)

PS no comments, opinions or replies are required to this post and if any are made they will not be acknowledged
 
This is not new science and is posted in the wrong thread.
This belongs in the thread "Viruses: life or non-life" in the Biology and Genetics sub-forum.

p.s. I am glad we agree on the notion that viruses are living organisms. That's the point I have been trying to make in the above thread ...:)

p.p.s. In this thread "quorum sensing" is topical as it addresses possible antibiotical remedies...:)

p.p.p.s. You seem to have a lively dreamworld.....:eek:
 
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candy said:
Modern medicine does not seem to be doing all that well against covid.
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Modern medicine has not been seriously employed in the US - the US, for example, still has not employed the contact trace and origin isolation techniques it developed in the successful handling of Ebola and used successfully against SARS.

The US had its first responders - the people who would have shut down Ebola or SARS using modern medicine, five years ago - jury-rigging gowns out of garbage bags and packing the dead in refrigerated trucks, while the President lied to the entire country about the source, nature, and threat, of the virus.

The PAs at my local hospital were unable to obtain functional masks and gowns, the doctors were unable to obtain diagnostic tests or contact tracing, and the President in executive command was on TV lying about that dearth of equipment and advocating injecting bleach into people's colons.

Modern medicine is not the problem.
 
The Japanese noticed it earlier this year and the Germans are starting to notice as well.

To prevent the mass spread of Covid 19 in colder climates you need masks, social distancing and free flowing air (luft).

So instead of closing up all the windows, cranking up the heaters and running around inside in shorts and t shirts during winter you should be looking for some sort of happy medium with good ventilation.
 
27/10/2020 Au

Updating the situation in Melbourne Australia.
Zero cases and no deaths... means that the lock down can and has been largely removed as of today... :)
One of my grand sons (13) spent his first day at school after 31 weeks of home schooling...
It has been a hard slog but we made it .....congrats to Victorians..
Hopefully we can keep this bug under control nation wide now...
12813072-16x9-xlarge.jpg

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-27/coronavirus-zero-cases-victorias-achievement/12815424
 
29/10/2020
France and Germany announce nation wide lock-downs to come in to effect in a few days due to massive surges in confirmed cases.
 
Write4U said: ↑
p.s. I am glad we agree on the notion that viruses are living organisms.
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Based on the notion that viruses can and do instantiate cell division in the host and thereby lead a "borrowed life".
These behaviors are what led many to think of viruses as existing at the border between chemistry and life.
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More poetically, virologists Marc H. V. van Regenmortel of the University of Strasbourg in France and Brian W. J. Mahy of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have recently said that with their dependence on host cells, viruses lead “a kind of borrowed life.” Interestingly, even though biologists long favored the view that viruses were mere boxes of chemicals, they took advantage of viral activity in host cells to determine how nucleic acids code for proteins: indeed, modern molecular biology rests on a foundation of information gained through viruses.
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-2004/

billvon said:
Cool. Computers are officially alive.
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I am missing the connection. Can you clarify?

I am prepared to state that computers are (becoming) self-aware, i.e. AC (artificial consciousness) See my thread about "consciousness".
 
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