Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
I don't see you whining about the duty of care, negligence, and manslaughter over the months-long protests in many US cities.
Corona Virus 2019-nCoV
- Thread starter Quantum Quack
- Start date
I can if you want me to. Perhaps your degree of intellectual competency needs me to.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
No need. You've already demonstrated that you're far more concerned about scoring political points than your faux concern about people's health. It doesn't go unnoticed that you focus squarely on the US and Trump in particular.
Jesus! You're giving that old pot, kettle black thingy a good run!!!
Neither do you. Each citizen of the US is indeed responsible for not causing any harm to others or society. Read up on the Model Penal Code to educate yourself. Funny how so many of us are constantly having to educate you on yet something else you know nothing about.
lol
Classic non-sequitur!
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If I were you I would be more concerned about :
- How can I avoid getting infected by Trump supporters who don't give a shit whether I do or not.
- Can I afford to buy the vaccine when it becomes available?
- What am I going to do if no effective vaccine is produced?
- Am I being used as a COVID-19 test subject with out my knowledge?
- How am I going to survive a Trump induced economic depression?
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I didn't say anything about unique hazards. For somebody who shouts "straw man" so much, one would think you'd be more careful that you are to avoid setting them up yourself.
In addition to what billvon wrote, I'm also interested to know what makes attending church a "necessary public activity". Please explain.
That's because COVID doesn't kill you - its side effects do. For example, your immune response might generate swelling and edema in your lungs. Doctors call that pneumonia, so the cause of death is pneumonia - caused by COVID-19.
I guess they don't cover that in the Facebook MD program.
So far the arrests from the Minneapolis vandalism and riots - such as the four guys recently arrested for setting the fires that burned the Third Precinct police station - have been disproportionately white guys from out of town hot spots of Trump voters (Brainerd, Staples, certain neighborhoods of Saint Paul, places in which they did not vandalize and set fires and provoke looting and violence).
Not demonstrators, not BLM activists, not Democrats, and not people familiar to the demonstrators and BLM activists and Democrats who were on the scene by the hundreds and thousands. Those people were disproportionately targets, not instigators, of violence and thuggery - often at the hands of the police themselves.
So you have seen lots of folks - here and everywhere - "whining" (to borrow the wingnut vocabulary, limited and derivative though it is) about the dereliction of duty and lack of care and consequent negligence to the point of manslaughter exhibited by the executive authorities involved and their minions on the street.
You've seen lots of that.
It's just that - being reality based - they are not blaming the nameless and semi-mythical conspirators of the BLM movement or the like. They are instead blaming the violent and fanatical thugs of the Republican Party's voting base, the policemen who aid and abet them as well as joining them in public thuggery, and the politicians who egg them on and praise their efforts.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
The MPC is not legally binding nor universally adopted, so again you only demonstrate your own ignorance. And even where it is, the lowest mens rea standard of negligence would only apply if there's some awareness of symptoms. But hey, way to dunk on yourself.
If it's not uniquely hazardous, any argument against voting in person equally applies to grocery shopping or protesting. I'm fine with that, but it nullifies many of the arguments here.
Who said it was? As far as I know "necessary public activity" is not codified in law, but:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ... or the right of the people peaceably to assemble..."
Many US states have similar language in their constitutions, but all are also incorporated by the Fourteenth Amendment. No, that would be "death from complications of Covid", simplified as "death from Covid", as the underlying cause of death.
UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEATH
1. Definition:
UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEATH is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) as the disease or injury that initiated the train of events leading directly to death, or the circumstances of the accident or violence which produced the fatal injury.
2.Purpose:
The selection of a specific condition from a number of reported conditions as the underlying cause of a death facilitates categorizing deaths and enables development of statistical information on cause of death. This permits measuring the rate of death in a particular population, monitoring trends or comparing causes of death across geographic regions. As deaths are registered, information on the causes of the death are reported by the physician certifying to the death. For most deaths, the physician reports more that one condition (i.e. disease, injury or complication) and may report a dozen or more conditions that caused or significantly contributed to the death. The fact that most deaths are attributed to multiple causes means that developing statistical information that summarizes what conditions cause death can be complex and significant patterns or trends in causes of death might be missed. To address this problem, the concept of an underlying cause of death was developed and is employed to simplify and standardize statistical tabulations on the underlying cause of death
https://www-doh.state.nj.us/doh-shad/view/sharedstatic/UnderlyingCauseOfDeath.pdf
1. Definition:
UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEATH is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) as the disease or injury that initiated the train of events leading directly to death, or the circumstances of the accident or violence which produced the fatal injury.
2.Purpose:
The selection of a specific condition from a number of reported conditions as the underlying cause of a death facilitates categorizing deaths and enables development of statistical information on cause of death. This permits measuring the rate of death in a particular population, monitoring trends or comparing causes of death across geographic regions. As deaths are registered, information on the causes of the death are reported by the physician certifying to the death. For most deaths, the physician reports more that one condition (i.e. disease, injury or complication) and may report a dozen or more conditions that caused or significantly contributed to the death. The fact that most deaths are attributed to multiple causes means that developing statistical information that summarizes what conditions cause death can be complex and significant patterns or trends in causes of death might be missed. To address this problem, the concept of an underlying cause of death was developed and is employed to simplify and standardize statistical tabulations on the underlying cause of death
https://www-doh.state.nj.us/doh-shad/view/sharedstatic/UnderlyingCauseOfDeath.pdf
"Death with Covid" has repeatedly been shown to include completely erroneous deaths, including those who were never tested, either before or after death. This is because there's a perverse financial incentive to report deaths as Covid-related.
Medicare is adding 20% to its regular reimbursements to hospitals for the treatment of COVID-19 victims. That’s a result of a federal stimulus law that was passed in response to the coronavirus pandemic.
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...re-arent-set-amounts-hospitals-are-paid-deat/
And that completely ignores all the false positive test results.https://www.politifact.com/factchec...re-arent-set-amounts-hospitals-are-paid-deat/
Social media posting. 30/08/2020
re: Hotel quarantine failure 30 days into level 4 restrictions.
COVID comment - 30 days level 4 - Rant.
What is disturbing to me is that the last 30 days of severe restrictions has been necessary because some people decided to treat this COVID problem as a hoax or conspiracy and that it wasn't necessary to perform their roles with integrity and due diligence.
Allowing, due to their underestimation of the seriousness even though huge amounts of money and economic loss have been devoted, additionally the personal sufferance of those who have had to endure the result of their folly, the corruption of quarantine in the Hotel quarantine system.
A system set up under extreme urgency by our government to contain and minimize the need for such severe lock down provisions. A government significantly underestimating how little security contractors shared their sense of urgency and need.
Betraying the trust they accepted has meant that I, like so many others, have had to endure , mask wearing, movement limitations, curfew, isolation from family and friends and the threat of infection.
My grandchildren unable to attend school.
My health profession friends terrified of having to go to work, and multi cultural neighbors living in constant fear.
and so on...
Crying in Arabic, Polish, Serbian, Chinese or other languages all sound the same. The tears are all salty...
The actual cost to each citizen due to this sheer stupidity is enormous and one that can never be recovered.
Huge numbers of fatalities in our nursing homes and the forcing of our Australian economy into a massive recession simply because they didn't take their employment contracts seriously enough to do the job that was required of them.
What is even more disturbing is that this will inevitably happen again while people individually fail to recognize the nature of the COVID beast and that as soon as lock down provisions are lifted (if ever) we will probably have to do it all over again until an effective vaccine is available in 12 months or so at the least or never in the most.
But such is human nature I guess!
So mean while I sit here typing useless frustrated rants locked up in a prison like situation that is purely for my own protection, living in isolation I have to somehow reconcile that this is all because of the failure of individuals to take this situation seriously.
...end of 30 day rant.
re: Hotel quarantine failure 30 days into level 4 restrictions.
COVID comment - 30 days level 4 - Rant.
What is disturbing to me is that the last 30 days of severe restrictions has been necessary because some people decided to treat this COVID problem as a hoax or conspiracy and that it wasn't necessary to perform their roles with integrity and due diligence.
Allowing, due to their underestimation of the seriousness even though huge amounts of money and economic loss have been devoted, additionally the personal sufferance of those who have had to endure the result of their folly, the corruption of quarantine in the Hotel quarantine system.
A system set up under extreme urgency by our government to contain and minimize the need for such severe lock down provisions. A government significantly underestimating how little security contractors shared their sense of urgency and need.
Betraying the trust they accepted has meant that I, like so many others, have had to endure , mask wearing, movement limitations, curfew, isolation from family and friends and the threat of infection.
My grandchildren unable to attend school.
My health profession friends terrified of having to go to work, and multi cultural neighbors living in constant fear.
and so on...
Crying in Arabic, Polish, Serbian, Chinese or other languages all sound the same. The tears are all salty...
The actual cost to each citizen due to this sheer stupidity is enormous and one that can never be recovered.
Huge numbers of fatalities in our nursing homes and the forcing of our Australian economy into a massive recession simply because they didn't take their employment contracts seriously enough to do the job that was required of them.
What is even more disturbing is that this will inevitably happen again while people individually fail to recognize the nature of the COVID beast and that as soon as lock down provisions are lifted (if ever) we will probably have to do it all over again until an effective vaccine is available in 12 months or so at the least or never in the most.
But such is human nature I guess!
So mean while I sit here typing useless frustrated rants locked up in a prison like situation that is purely for my own protection, living in isolation I have to somehow reconcile that this is all because of the failure of individuals to take this situation seriously.
...end of 30 day rant.
Why would you say something so dumb? Of course, it's legally binding, it's a law, dummy. Projecting your insults?
There is no reality, in wingnut world.
Unless these guys really do shop for groceries once every four years, and protest against cereal brands.
As well as all the well-documented cases of an elderly person dying of a respiratory disease, showing up at a coroner's, and having cause of death listed as "unknown" because no COVID-19 tests were available for coroners. (Coroners are lower on the priority list and do not get easy access to tests - AND have no financial incentive to report such a finding.) Thus, if anything, the number of COVID-19 deaths has been significantly under-reported.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
Whereas I've already shown evidence that Covid diagnosis has a financial incentive, all I can find about coroners is from April and May, likely because we've had ample tests since. So you'd have to show some evidence that those missed cases are even comparable to the potential of incentivized diagnoses. Or just vacuously spin whatever you believe affirms your bias.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
No, the MPC is not a law, and the arrogance of your ignorance is astounding, that you can be so uninformed while calling people names.
The MPC itself is not legally-binding law, but since its publication in 1962 more than half of all U.S. states have enacted criminal codes that borrow heavily from it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Penal_Code
So as usual, you're so self-deluded that you're projecting your own projection. Dunning-Kruger having a field day with you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Penal_Code
The recovery from the coronavirus sure looks V-shaped, going by these charts
The U.S. economy added a record number of jobs in May as it appeared to bounce off the bottom of the coronavirus recession, and now the chart of jobs gains and losses is starting to look like a “V.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/the...ure-looks-v-shaped-going-by-these-charts.html
And the US has done better than a lot of countries, even with more Covid cases and deaths: https://oecd.github.io/EO-Outlook_chart_3/The U.S. economy added a record number of jobs in May as it appeared to bounce off the bottom of the coronavirus recession, and now the chart of jobs gains and losses is starting to look like a “V.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/the...ure-looks-v-shaped-going-by-these-charts.html
Update Melbourne Victoria (State pop: 6.4 million):
Posted mainly to make use of this situation as a COVID case that may be useful in learning and developing COVID containment and management strategies.
Today they announced that the new case load of confirmed cases has continued it's trend downwards with only 41 cases reported statewide.
Notes (Observatons/opinion):
While the level 4 lock down on Melbourne ( pop: 4.9 million) has proven to be effective in containing and reducing community transmission it has on this occasion ( 2nd wave) taken longer than the first wave.
This is the second time we have had to endure severe restrictions on movement and social connections.
The first time the national community managed very well in coping with restrictions and transmission curves reflected their commitment. This time, the second time, the impacted communities are more resistant to compliance and lock down fatigue is significantly evident. The ability to flatten and then push down the curve is reduced as people quite naturally IMO become more restless and complacent.
The economic cost is quite staggering and people are anxious to save their jobs and businesses putting further pressure on compliance.
While most people know that there really is no choice in this, some tend to feel that now that the case load is so low we can relax and somehow the transmission will not exponentially increase. From a behavioral perspective the situation of COVID transmission could rapidly deteriorate causing further restrictions and extended economic loss associated.
Many people including media tend to think that it is a money vs health issue when it fact it can only be a health issue, because with out the health there is no money.
The Federal Government is focused on the economy where as the Victoria State Government is focused on the health. This battle between states and Federal is typical world wide and not just the province of Australia.
There is a strong potential that the States will succumb to Federal pressure and relax border restrictions for the sake of economic urgency but the problem is that it is the long term economic health that is at stake and further hard solution procrastination will only mean that both individual health and economic health will continue to deteriorate as further future lock downs become necessary.
Vexation:
This vexation is mainly because of the exponential nature of transmissions that can only be prevented by significant restrictions on movement and social connections.
Added to this are
Posted mainly to make use of this situation as a COVID case that may be useful in learning and developing COVID containment and management strategies.
Today they announced that the new case load of confirmed cases has continued it's trend downwards with only 41 cases reported statewide.
Notes (Observatons/opinion):
While the level 4 lock down on Melbourne ( pop: 4.9 million) has proven to be effective in containing and reducing community transmission it has on this occasion ( 2nd wave) taken longer than the first wave.
This is the second time we have had to endure severe restrictions on movement and social connections.
The first time the national community managed very well in coping with restrictions and transmission curves reflected their commitment. This time, the second time, the impacted communities are more resistant to compliance and lock down fatigue is significantly evident. The ability to flatten and then push down the curve is reduced as people quite naturally IMO become more restless and complacent.
The economic cost is quite staggering and people are anxious to save their jobs and businesses putting further pressure on compliance.
While most people know that there really is no choice in this, some tend to feel that now that the case load is so low we can relax and somehow the transmission will not exponentially increase. From a behavioral perspective the situation of COVID transmission could rapidly deteriorate causing further restrictions and extended economic loss associated.
Many people including media tend to think that it is a money vs health issue when it fact it can only be a health issue, because with out the health there is no money.
The Federal Government is focused on the economy where as the Victoria State Government is focused on the health. This battle between states and Federal is typical world wide and not just the province of Australia.
There is a strong potential that the States will succumb to Federal pressure and relax border restrictions for the sake of economic urgency but the problem is that it is the long term economic health that is at stake and further hard solution procrastination will only mean that both individual health and economic health will continue to deteriorate as further future lock downs become necessary.
Vexation:
This vexation is mainly because of the exponential nature of transmissions that can only be prevented by significant restrictions on movement and social connections.
Added to this are
- the unknown variables of asymptomatic carriers,
- Community transmission ( that which is not imported from over seas)
- Increased (%) airborne transmission, loss of trained medical staff, and
- The rebellion against isolation caused by social distancing, in the form of potentially contagious hot spots due to illegal mass gatherings ( protests, parties, entertainment etc)
- The inability to adequately contact trace once case numbers exceed a 10-20 thresh hold in any given outbreak. ( regardless of the resources employed)
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