Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

[James R]

Vociferous:

The risk of widespread fraud due to issues with postal votes appears to be negligible, based on the historical data. As for "voter error", you haven't been specific about what you're referring to, so it's difficult to comment on that.

I take it that you don't think the postal service should be properly funded in order to expedite delivery of postal ballots.

Why is that?

Also, do you have any thoughts about the deadline issue that I mentioned?

Your previous reply doesn't seem to have addressed anything I wrote.

 

[origin]

I've obviously been laboring under a very ill-formed presumption.

That seems to be a common theme in all your posts.

 

[Vociferous]

Vociferous:

The risk of widespread fraud due to issues with postal votes appears to be negligible, based on the historical data. As for "voter error", you haven't been specific about what you're referring to, so it's difficult to comment on that.

I take it that you don't think the postal service should be properly funded in order to expedite delivery of postal ballots.

Why is that?

Also, do you have any thoughts about the deadline issue that I mentioned?

"Historical data"? Everything I cited is within the last year, so that's a huge spike in cases, especially when compared historically. And I already linked articles detailing voter error. I don't think the over a decade-long failing USPS should be bailed out at endlessly and precipitously increasing expense, especial for mail-in ballots that have already proven to disenfranchise voters in their very short extended use.

What "deadline issue"? I searched the last two pages of this thread and only found me posting about deadlines.

Your previous reply doesn't seem to have addressed anything I wrote.

That's okay. You're last post didn't seem to have addressed anything I wrote either. Turnabout is fair play.

That seems to be a common theme in all your posts.

Ah, another out of context troll buzzing around uselessly.

 

[candy]

Voting by mail works best with voter id. I had no problem requesting or tracking my ballot.
There is no historical data about the mass mailings of ballots. It is a work in progress that has had multiple issues so far.
I do not like the idea of turning the ballots into junk mail.

 

[James R]

"Historical data"? Everything I cited is within the last year, so that's a huge spike in cases, especially when compared historically.

Maybe you and I are talking at cross purposes. I said there is no evidence of widespread fraud in mail-in ballots. You seem to want to ignore that and talk instead about how you think running the USPS is too expensive, and some other stuff about votes not being counted due to errors made by the voters themselves.

What "deadline issue"? I searched the last two pages of this thread and only found me posting about deadlines.

I am referring to the requirement that some states have that votes will only be counted if they are delivered by a due date, regardless of when they were mailed. That means that if there's delay in the postal system then votes that would be valid, which involve no voter fraud and no voter error, may nevertheless not be counted, through no fault of the voters concerned.

Do you agree that this is a problem? Or do you want to place the blame on the voters or on evil leftists or something?

Maybe we should go back to basics.

Do you agree that all eligible voters who wish to vote in the upcoming should be given a reasonable opportunity to cast their votes, regardless of their party affiliation or socio-economic status?

Do you agree that it, in all probability, the Covid-19 pandemic is likely to present obstacles to eligible voters safely casting votes in person at polling stations etc., as they might do in less extraordinary times?

If you do agree with these two propositions, and you do not want to fund the postal service so as to enable the timely delivery of votes, then tell me what procedures you would like to see in place to allow people to vote without placing undue risk to their health and the health of their families. You might think that voting should be conducted as if there was no Covid-19, for all I know at this point. But I assume you have some kind of preferred solution in mind. You have thought about it, haven't you?

 

[James R]

I do not like the idea of turning the ballots into junk mail.

What do you mean by that? Are you referring to a specific proposal?

 

[billvon]

Way to ignore the cited fraud.

Cited fraud? Let's see what you posted:
Michigan deadlines for mail-in voting might disqualify some ballots
Note that word "might" that you missed. That is not fraud. Nor does it have anything to do with the Postal Service. It has to do with the deadlines the state imposed.
California rejected 100,000 mail-in ballots because of mistakes
Those were rejected primarily because the voter forgot to sign it or used the wrong signature. How is that the fault of the Postal Service, again?

Look, we get it. Trump told you to believe that the USPS was causing fraudulent elections, and like a obedient sycophant, you believed - and then did some copy and paste to try to support your claim. But you didn't read the articles, and thus you fell on your face again.

I don't think the over a decade-long failing USPS should be bailed out at endlessly

It is a function called out by the US Constitution, and thus is rightly funded by taxpayer money. So unless you want to burn the Constitution, the US will keep "bailing it out" - just as it "bails out" the military. (And the FAA, and the FCC, and the highway system, and all those other services you use year after year.)

 

[candy]

What do you mean by that? Are you referring to a specific proposal?

I was referring to mass universal mail outs of ballots as Pelosi wants as opposed to requesting a ballot.

 

[candy]

Cited fraud? Let's see what you posted:
Michigan deadlines for mail-in voting might disqualify some ballots
Note that word "might" that you missed. That is not fraud. Nor does it have anything to do with the Postal Service. It has to do with the deadlines the state imposed.
California rejected 100,000 mail-in ballots because of mistakes
Those were rejected primarily because the voter forgot to sign it or used the wrong signature. How is that the fault of the Postal Service, again?

Look, we get it. Trump told you to believe that the USPS was causing fraudulent elections, and like a obedient sycophant, you believed - and then did some copy and paste to try to support your claim. But you didn't read the articles, and thus you fell on your face again.

It is a function called out by the US Constitution, and thus is rightly funded by taxpayer money. So unless you want to burn the Constitution, the US will keep "bailing it out" - just as it "bails out" the military. (And the FAA, and the FCC, and the highway system, and all those other services you use year after year.)

The deadline issue has arisen because some states like PA allow you to request a ballot up to 7 days before the election and that may not be enough turnaround time. USPS has a 10 day policy before you can track a piece of mail.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Voting by mail works best with voter id. I had no problem requesting or tracking my ballot.
There is no historical data about the mass mailings of ballots. It is a work in progress that has had multiple issues so far.
I do not like the idea of turning the ballots into junk mail.

job creation and spending to activate promote & co-ordinate democracy is a great thing
but the tyrants wanting power dont want true democracy
they just want the power

having an independent self advertising self promoting non corrupt electoral organization is key

unfortunately corruption has been normalized into US business culture as a form of legitimate capitalism
so business people perceive mailing processes as a market monopolization process via cash funds ability
(what ever it is, we can buy it with enough money)

i like the idea of forcing the population to get off thier ass and go and make a physical vote
but i would rather people vote by postal ballot than not vote at all

the biggest struggle in the usa is to get people to vote
45% of the voting population didn't vote in the last election
thats shocking for a modern 1st world democracy(its not really a democracy its a capitalocracy[money buys equal power])

the thought of all those who didnt bother to vote, getting voting ballots turn up inside thier house
may be enough to stimulate them, to vote
and the margin to win is tiny

and these are filthy rich people playing their own power games
they dont give a fuck about the average working class
and they make no pretense of that fact
they are not in it to serve the people
they are in it to serve themselves
serving themselves is an American cultural ideology and morality(winner-takes-all)


... pandemic ... schmandemic !(new york queens accent)
big business profit before people
no big business profit then no vaccine

but this is the first ever pandemic
which is something they have all not comprehended
big business profit wont come before people
it is the other way around
the longer they hang on the further down their economy goes
their cultural morality ideology is sinking their ship
and creationism beats science vaccines every time

that may not be enough turnaround time.

political funding games(of the rich elitists playing their reality TV tabloid social-life-party games[it is all just a big game to them])


no body likes the postal service
all real americans hate and loath the postal service
its disgusting
its full of lazy good for nothing people who steal money off the tax payer

so its better to make it a private company
and the postal service is a communist because its not a pay per view private profit company

= conspiracy thinking (very popular in the usa)

did the rest of the USA learn from new york being buried under dead bodys ?
no !
they are chanting their creationism mantra
profit before vaccine
profit before social distancing
creationism before masks

what did the usa learn from covid_19 9/11 ?
nothing !

 

[RainbowSingularity]

I was referring to mass universal mail outs of ballots as Pelosi wants as opposed to requesting a ballot.

homelessness game ?
ballot requests must be driver license or passport identified to verify if they do not own the property the mailing address goes to ?

war on the poor ?

since its all job creation and effectively quantitative easing
they could simply have counters put all confusing or suspect ballots into a separate box, then a special group counts them
any questionable ballot is photographed and put forward into public media and assigned a value

excellent way to create jobs and plant a flag in the ground for democracy
but it doesn't hand unquestionable absolute power to tin pot dictators

throwing several hundred million in to the electoral process would be a very clever way of creating quantitative easing directly into the front end of the money go round
putting cash back into circulation into small businesses and creating jobs

its not a single simple act for dummies to win the world domination
so its probably seen as too small and to complicated because its not a manipulation tool for ego maniacs

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Vaccine Creationism
. . .
"don't 'science' my right to watch you & your children & parents suffer"

 

[Vociferous]

"Historical data"? Everything I cited is within the last year, so that's a huge spike in cases, especially when compared historically.

Maybe you and I are talking at cross purposes. I said there is no evidence of widespread fraud in mail-in ballots. You seem to want to ignore that and talk instead about how you think running the USPS is too expensive, and some other stuff about votes not being counted due to errors made by the voters themselves.

One of the things I'm saying is that some of the actual cases of fraud, which I've already cited for you, rely on methods that would make the significant number of disenfranchised votes, this years alone, an opportune target. In one election, something like 3 or 4 times the margin of votes between the candidates were disqualified. You get that that is well beyond the potential of being result altering, right?

I am referring to the requirement that some states have that votes will only be counted if they are delivered by a due date, regardless of when they were mailed. That means that if there's delay in the postal system then votes that would be valid, which involve no voter fraud and no voter error, may nevertheless not be counted, through no fault of the voters concerned.

Do you agree that this is a problem? Or do you want to place the blame on the voters or on evil leftists or something?

Yes, it is a problem of Democrat's own making. They are the ones needlessly panicking people about voting in person and push lock downs, as a way to create leverage for their partisan agenda of a Covid relief bill, bloated with irrelevancies.

Maybe we should go back to basics.

Do you agree that all eligible voters who wish to vote in the upcoming should be given a reasonable opportunity to cast their votes, regardless of their party affiliation or socio-economic status?

Do you agree that it, in all probability, the Covid-19 pandemic is likely to present obstacles to eligible voters safely casting votes in person at polling stations etc., as they might do in less extraordinary times?

If you do agree with these two propositions, and you do not want to fund the postal service so as to enable the timely delivery of votes, then tell me what procedures you would like to see in place to allow people to vote without placing undue risk to their health and the health of their families. You might think that voting should be conducted as if there was no Covid-19, for all I know at this point. But I assume you have some kind of preferred solution in mind. You have thought about it, haven't you?

Yes
No

Cited fraud? Let's see what you posted:
Michigan deadlines for mail-in voting might disqualify some ballots
Note that word "might" that you missed. That is not fraud. Nor does it have anything to do with the Postal Service. It has to do with the deadlines the state imposed.
California rejected 100,000 mail-in ballots because of mistakes
Those were rejected primarily because the voter forgot to sign it or used the wrong signature. How is that the fault of the Postal Service, again?

Look, we get it. Trump told you to believe that the USPS was causing fraudulent elections, and like a obedient sycophant, you believed - and then did some copy and paste to try to support your claim. But you didn't read the articles, and thus you fell on your face again.

As usual, you only cherry-pick posts to facilitate your lying.
The fraud stories were clearly labelled as such. Learn to read.
Leftists have to resort to these sad little tactics because reality stubbornly won't accommodate their lies.

It is a function called out by the US Constitution, and thus is rightly funded by taxpayer money. So unless you want to burn the Constitution, the US will keep "bailing it out" - just as it "bails out" the military. (And the FAA, and the FCC, and the highway system, and all those other services you use year after year.)

The Constitution only grants Congress the power to establish the USPS. It never required the USPS to be established, nor does it require it be maintained. Learn to read.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

(Caused 28 Deaths)
[the idea is to save lifes so i hope there is absolute transperency so new rules & guidelines can be created to in turn, save more future lifes, rather than cover something up to make some corporate image look better]

~`~`~`~`~`
Coronavirus: 'Serious mistakes' made over Ruby Princess outbreak
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53776285

• 14 August 2020

Health authorities in Australia have been heavily criticised in an official inquiry into the Ruby Princess cruise ship coronavirus outbreak.

The inquiry found "serious errors" by New South Wales Health in its handling of suspected cases on board.

All 2,700 passengers were allowed to disembark in Sydney in March without sufficient screening. More than 100 of them felt unwell.

A total of 914 later tested positive. Twenty-two died.

The ship, carrying mostly Australian passengers, had completed an 11-day cruise from Sydney to New Zealand and back when it docked on 19 March.

The passengers - some seen coughing and spluttering - were allowed to leave the ship at Sydney Harbour, catching trains, buses and even overseas flights to get home.

But despite officials' fears, the virus did not spread far beyond those who had been on board.

Excluding a cluster in the island state of Tasmania which spread through a hospital, only 34 people in Australia caught the virus through secondary transmission.

But it was Australia's worst coronavirus episode before the current lockdown in Victoria.

 

[James R]

Vociferous:

I see. After all the blather, your solution to allowing people to vote during a Covid-19 pandemic is to pretend there is no pandemic.

That's straight from the Trump conservative playbook, so once again you're conforming to type. You're nothing if not predictable.

 

[Vociferous]

Vociferous:

I see. After all the blather, your solution to allowing people to vote during a Covid-19 pandemic is to pretend there is no pandemic.

That's straight from the Trump conservative playbook, so once again you're conforming to type. You're nothing if not predictable.

Nope, just another of your straw men. If people can safely go to the grocery store and protests, certainly they can manage a polling place. You know, except for the stricter social distancing levied against churches, which are often used for voting. See how that works? Scare people about Covid and then demand churches can only have have 10 people or 20% capacity, while every other business is allowed 50% capacity.

But please, do tell how polling places present unique hazards that other necessary public activities do not.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

vote during a Covid-19 pandemic

during a covid_19 pandemic which has no quarantine, no self isolation, no social distancing, no masks or PPE regulations and no vaccine

working class people problems
schmucks who pay for health insurance policys and get no hospital service
schmucks who pay massive taxes (& health insurance policy's)so elitists can get hospital treatment when ever they like with your tax money
while you the working class schmuck gets sent a bill for doctors visits, co-pays for basic things and massive waivers for existing conditions and non cover for medications.
schmucks law health system.

pandemic law & order ?
got the order of schmucks law health system working on over time rates and sending the working class schmucks the bill

pandemic health care crisis is solved by banning the usps from rigging elections
...
are we still talking medicine & epidemiology & pandemics ?

viral schmuck & no rights to hospital treatment
schmucks law buys private health insurance because there is no national health system
paying for something with no rights to receive it

viral schmuck pandemia
virology of schmucks law(politics)
covid19 virology(medicine)

 

[billvon]

Nope, just another of your straw men. If people can safely go to the grocery store and protests, certainly they can manage a polling place.

People can't safely go to the grocery store and protests. 1000 Americans a day die because people go to the grocery store (and protests, and rallies, and parties.) That's pretty much the definition of "not safe."

But please, do tell how polling places present unique hazards that other necessary public activities do not.

See above. They do not present a unique hazard - but the hazard is absolutely there. Voting by person is unnecessary when you can vote by mail (well, when you don't have a president actively trying to deny you that right, that is.)

 

[RainbowSingularity]

in other news
the center of the first mass detected outbreak of human to human
Wuhan holds dance party in a pool(i wonder how many cellphones are at the bottom of the pool)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53816511

i like well kept swimming pools but that many people i would choose something else to do ...
unique experience
breathing all that water into your lungs would increase your risk of lung infections

 

[RainbowSingularity]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53773070