conversions

[robtex]

I notice that their are many athiest and agnostics on this website. I am guessing that many of you went to churches or other religious institutions before making the conversion.

If this is so please list the religion you converted from and the reason you converted or the tennets that you disagreed with that caused your conversion.

If you are a thiest and converted from one religion to another from which to which did you convert and why?

I don't want to be dork and not put my cards on the table up front so here is mine in a quick nutshell.

I started out agnositc causes religion was not presented to me as a child. I tried to make the conversion to Christanity but had issues with the Bible in college and was a Christian for about 18 months to two years fully accepting Christ as my savior and than dropping the notion because

The Bible is full of violence and I can't see my partipation in a religion that is not benovelent

I was not able to accept the ressurection of a man to aid a God

I didn't believe man was born needing to be saved

I couldn't accept that non-belief or uncertainty would warrent damnation.

I became an agonsitic again and than became a Unitarian when I decided

That st thomas Aquinas outside mover arguement had substance

the world /universe was structured

allmost all people irregardless if they exercise it or not have a system or morality

man has a propensity to believe in religion and that is a wierd thing to have if there wasn't a higher power

belief in living creates having souls

 

[path]

I was raised in a home where my mother was constantly in search of spiritual meaning so she shifted churches a bit. By the time I started school she was catholic so she enrolled me in a catholic school (my father was an atheist or borderline agnostic). Since the catholic school system was better academically than the public I remained in catholic school til I graduated highschool.

I was very religious in my early teens prayed every night and felt I had a one on one relationship with jesus etc. When I graduated grade school I got the award for best student in religion. I won the award because I never stopped asking questions in an attempt to find out more. All of this questioning of course eventually led me to realize that there were some serious flaws in christian dogma. By the time I was a junior in high school my mother had become a Nicyrin shoshu buddhist. I remember going to the ceremony with her when she received her gohunsun (like a confirmation) all of those people chanting in japanese, real culture shock. I thought I was cool but everyone kept turning to me and asking if I was alright, I must have been white as a ghost By the time I graduated high school I believed that there may be a god but he sure as hell doesn't have anything to do with the church. Over the ensuing 20 years I have experienced and read about countless things that have irrevocably convinced me that there is no god. I am convinced that we are all intertwined tiny parts of a greater system but it is not any religions understanding of a supreme being. There is no hell or heaven no right or wrong belief there is only the responsibility we have to one another.

 

[TheERK]

I became an agonsitic again and than became a Unitarian when I decided

That st thomas Aquinas outside mover arguement had substance

the world /universe was structured

allmost all people irregardless if they exercise it or not have a system or morality

man has a propensity to believe in religion and that is a wierd thing to have if there wasn't a higher power

belief in living creates having souls

Hi, your original question does not apply to me, but I'd like to comment on these statements.

The outside mover argument really doesn't have any substance; do a search for criticisms of it and I think you'll find them convincing. Ask yourself: does the outside mover have a mover? And even if it doesn't, who's to say that this outside mover is intelligent or even conscious? The outside mover may simply be a set of physical laws.

If the universe/world wasn't 'structured', you wouldn't be around to comment on it. Read up on the anthropic principle and you'll find that this argument for design is without substance.

How can you say that people have morality if they do not exercise it? Besides, morality does not prove anything, because you can expect moral behavior to arise from natural selection. Species that help each other out are more likely to survive as a whole.

Belief in religion is currently a mystery, but there are many natural theories that would explain it. One is the desire for knowledge--and if the knowledge can't be obtained by natural observation, humans make up the answers. Another reason humans might believe in religion is because of it's social cohesion properties, giving religious societies the edge over non-religious socieities during the early evolutionary development of humans.

You say you believe that living creatures have souls. I assume this means dogs and cats. How about mice? Termites? Bacteria? Just something to think about!

 

[cato]

I did not have a religion, and I am greatful for that. I feel that religion teaches small mindedness. I always say (This is my motto/creed/credo) "An open mind is like an open hand, it can do just about anything. Yet a closed mind, like a closed fist, is good for little more than destruction"

 

[SKULLZ]

Structured as in "fine-tuned" for life?,well thats actually true,but it does not require a god for fine tuning,current string theory and many worlds theory are both equally plausable at helping to explain how the universe is so fine tuned for life,the best way is speaking in terms of probability.

I think this universe is no more than a mechanical roll of dice,with no intelligent hand behind the dice,there could very well be another universe out there that hasnt got life at all,in fact there may be millions and billions with no life,that puts chance and probability back into the picture IMO.

As to souls,like ERK says,all living things would also mean a flu virus,a flu virus has a soul,HIV has a soul.

Thats why i dont believe in souls so often mentioned,cos i think its sheer arrogance to think humans are the only living things with souls.

I also have trouble with the idea of bacteria going to heaven with wings and a harp lol.

Ive never really been religous,i could say ive been agnostic but i just dont get it,pure and simple i dont get any religion,not that i dont understand what religions say,dont get me wrong,i just dont see how in the 21st century people believe much of this stuff without question,without evidence,theres no solid proof,and where there is a good argument there is an equally valid counter-argument,by rights considering all this id expect everyone to be somewhat agnostic.

 

[TheERK]

Structured as in "fine-tuned" for life?,well thats actually true,but it does not require a god for fine tuning,current string theory and many worlds theory are both equally plausable at helping to explain how the universe is so fine tuned for life,the best way is speaking in terms of probability.

Explain how string theory is a plausible explanation.

I'm betting that you're just throwing it out as a buzzword without understanding what string theory actually means. Which is fine--most people don't, including myself. But I don't go around using it as an explanation.

Many worlds, however, is a good explanation, as I already noted.

 

[SKULLZ]

String theory as in M-theory,
current science is striving towards unification,but gravity is a problem,i might be wrong but i thought the "graviton" or gravity particle was m-theory,somewhere in the theory is the idea of membranes.

Basically the idea is that gravity is spread over many of these branes and it goes as far to say that we experience gravity weakly sometimes and strongly others because there are technically other universes and its spread over these.

Its different to many worlds theory,i get the impression string theory views many-worlds more as a cosmological reasoning at bigger scales.
Rather than dealing directly with everett/wheeler models.

Youre right i did throw it out as a buzzword,but only because modern string theory supports older ideas about many-worlds/other universes.

Theres also an idea related to M-theory which considers the universe as a hologram,thats even more confusing,its assertions are like saying the shadow of yourself on the wall contains all the information for you to exist,how about a many-holograms theory,each universe is a hologram projected from higher dimension space,because higher dimension space has the information needed to "split-off" 4 dimensional hologram universes.

 

[SnakeLord]

I was born, and have always been, a rational human being. As such, religion has never been an issue.

 

[TheERK]

I was born, and have always been, a rational human being. As such, religion has never been an issue.

Thank you for contributing your valuable trolling experience to this thread.

 

[duendy]

ok heres the bones of my journey

as a kid i wasn't raised religious but their used to be religious progs on on sunday and an 'epilogue' late at night which was religious. being an inquiring kid some of the propaganda went in

i always have had a fluid imagination. i heard about 'hell', and being secretly queer, and hiding this secret, and the times of my growin up it being very taboo, i used to think about what hell would be like.

i remember seeing paintings by Hiernoymous Bosch...those weird demon characters, and imagined being stuck in a space with THEM....!

at 15 i get to leave home and go to the big city to train to be a dancer. i get turned onto LSD, and this experience turns me onto Nature in a very deep way and changes my life

i struggle to try and integrate waht i have experienced and try various books.....yoganada, Nietszche, Gurdjieff, ---even christianity, afro american gospel --cause i have always loved that music

forgot to say...at 17 i joined the Hare Krishnas....even got me head shaved

ONE book that was a milestone for me whas Alan Watts Cloudhidden Whereabouts Unknown. he explains how oppoistes are polar related etc....i went on to read more of him

i discovered magic mushrooms in 1979, and never looked back hehe

i found another milestone of a book which turned me onto looking at mythological writing more closely...The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John Allegro......

from there i feel my life is nonending exploration. allowing myself to be flexible....trying not to get too rigid in any mindset, but realizing the ESSENTIAL thing is tograsp how to live interelatedly and sutainably with Nature, for we haven't dropped inTO Nature. we ARE Nature

 

[what768]

I did not have a religion, and I am greatful for that. I feel that religion teaches small mindedness. I always say (This is my motto/creed/credo) "An open mind is like an open hand, it can do just about anything. Yet a closed mind, like a closed fist, is good for little more than destruction" (Cato Clemens)

A closed mouth may be even better. "You never saw a fish on a wall with its mouth shut." But I'm sure that "Bruce Lee" did some good things with his "closed fists".

 

[SnakeLord]

Thank you for contributing your valuable trolling experience to this thread.

My pleasure.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to call it trolling, I just summed up an answer to the question without reeling off my entire life story. You really want my entire life story? Fair enough...

I was born, fostered 7 times, then finally adopted. All of these individuals had their own religions - from scientology to judaism. Frankly I thought they were all idiots. One family said "such and such" was true, and the very next family completely conflicted that with a "such and such" of their own. When you manage to see it from every angle, you just realise that nobody knows anything and are merely pleading with the clouds because they're too afraid to live life, and too scared to die.

Like school kids they dream up oh so wonderful fairy tales that always ends with a "happy ever after" for them and a big kick in the balls for everyone else who would dare tell them their fairy tale was fictional.

It's just as bad now as it's always been.. From human sacrifices to animal sacrifices, to having to repent for being human. I mean shit, how daft is that? Having to pray to your creator in repentance for it creating you to be you?

The thing is, I have no problems with the people in the bible being that way.. What more can you expect from a bunch of people vastly inferior when it comes to knowledge of the world, of 'reality'? But to see people in the year 2004 acting as if the words of a long since dead simpleton are worth more than the words of some of modern days greatest scientists is sickening.

All I see are a bunch of people who don't have the balls to live life, but are more than happy to tell everyone else how they should live theirs.

Happy now?

 

[TheERK]

Happy now?

Yes. This is an interesting story. And unlike your previous post, it doesn't appear like its sole purpose is to annoy people.

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

I wouldn't say I've had "conversions" as such, but I would say that my mind has moved from different modes of thought as I get older.

I was raised Catholic. Homeschooled until grade 10, then I went to a private, all-boys, Catholic boarding school for the rest of high-school. I graduated valedictorian, with mid-to-high 90's in all subjects. This includes anything from religion to physics. I then took one year off for work, after which I went to a catholic college down in Vancouver. I just completed the two year program offered there, and once again I'm taking a year off for work before I head down to Calgary to attend DeVry Technical Institute.

During the course of my life, I've come to realize that alot of the beliefs held by Christians that you all seem to be most familiar with are beliefs that I held only in my youth. I have been able to reconcile my beliefs entirely with sceintific thought, and am able to recognize the history of religion in its proper form. For example, it was a childish belief of mine to think that the world was created in 7 24-hour periods. However, on the other hand, evolution, being yet a theory, I don't see as entirely accurate yet, as I'm sure most people would agree. Although, it is the best framework for the past and present that we have right now. True religious thought isn't closemindedness. It is taking what you already know, or believe, and incorporating the knowledge, or beliefs of others into it, so that you may discover all the co-incidences of knowledges and beliefs and discard anything that then contradicts all of what you know and believe. This, to come as close to truest knowledge possible.

 

[Cris]

beyond,

A correction to your post -

..evolution, being yet a theory, I don't see as entirely accurate yet, as I'm sure most people would agree.

Evolution is FACT - it has occurred - there is no doubt. However, some of the processes that have enabled evolution to occur are theoretical. Please understand these impprtant distinctions.

Cris

 

[Cris]

Beyond,

True religious thought isn't closemindedness. It is taking what you already know, or believe, and incorporating the knowledge, or beliefs of others into it, so that you may discover all the co-incidences of knowledges and beliefs and discard anything that then contradicts all of what you know and believe. This, to come as close to truest knowledge possible.

This is nonsense. Religions do not offer knowledge only imaginative fantasy concepts and superstitions. These in no way can be considered knowledge.

Cris

 

[wesmorris]

I notice that their are many athiest and agnostics on this website. I am guessing that many of you went to churches or other religious institutions before making the conversion.

My parents didn't go to church but some of my friends did when I was a little kid so I went with them for a while until I decided it was really, really dumb when I was around 7.

If this is so please list the religion you converted from and the reason you converted or the tennets that you disagreed with that caused your conversion.

I was never that into it but I considered myself a methodist for a while as a kid... until I learned there were other things to call yourself. The only reason I thought of myself as methodist was because the church my friends went to was methodist.

If you are a thiest and converted from one religion to another from which to which did you convert and why?

Wasn't much of a conversion really. It was more like "oh that sounds like it describes me better than the other thing".

I started out agnositc causes religion was not presented to me as a child. I tried to make the conversion to Christanity but had issues with the Bible in college and was a Christian for about 18 months to two years fully accepting Christ as my savior and than dropping the notion because

Why did you buy it?

The Bible is full of violence and I can't see my partipation in a religion that is not benovelent

If it isn't right, why participate at all regardless of the amount of violence?

I was not able to accept the ressurection of a man to aid a God

Seems kind of silly eh? Anthropomorphisation is religions foundation.

I didn't believe man was born needing to be saved

Indeed I think that's a dangerous, scary concept. It's this kind of thiking that really fucks people up. It automatically puts us in denial of self. What a guilt trip... the power invoked is disgusting.

I couldn't accept that non-belief or uncertainty would warrent damnation.

It seems pretty stupid given that there are so many conflicting beliefs claiming the same bullshit.

I became an agonsitic again and than became a Unitarian when I decided

That st thomas Aquinas outside mover arguement had substance

the world /universe was structured

Well, I can see how you might think that but really you should consider why you think it. Intelligent design is straight anthropomorphization. It's an intellectual void.

allmost all people irregardless if they exercise it or not have a system or morality

Easily explained through logic. It's ultimately about survival of the species. Just consider the anthropology of a species developing from zero knowledge of their environment to what we have now. It's perfectly sensible that morality acts to bond and protect the tribe.. it provides stability to the tribe, which extends longevity and ultimately allows the species more success, which is part of why (along with a lot of luck and other stuff) we haven't gone extinct.

man has a propensity to believe in religion and that is a wierd thing to have if there wasn't a higher power

no it's not weird at all. what do we do when we don't know a solution to a problem and we feel compelled to have a solution? that's right, we make one up. what's more obvious that just making up gods to explain stuff? the natural evolution of the idea of "gods" is "god". it's simple evolution.

belief in living creates having souls

I have no idea what that means. Souls are simply a "shit I don't have a better explanation" explanation for the fact that it's hard to understand why people can think, why they have imaginations, emotions, blah blah.

Back on the agnostic thing. The logical consequence of strict agnosticism (which regards the nature of knowing rather than belief in god(s)) is weak atheism... which is IMO, the only truly rational perspective possible regarding god(s). This is especially so because even if a being were to present themselves as a god and did stuff that appeared to you as godlike, you couldn't differentiate them from a sufficiently advanced alien civilization. Note that if you could travel back in time with enough cool tech gadgets or knowledge to build them, you could appear as a god to primitive man. It might be possible that there are places in the world that experienced that exact phenomenon within the last hundred years or so.. maybe you could even do it today if you could find a sufficiently secluded society.

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

Beyond,
This is nonsense. Religions do not offer knowledge only imaginative fantasy concepts and superstitions. These in no way can be considered knowledge.
Cris

Is that also fact? Rather, that is simply your opinion, and a rather unenlightened one at that. Some of the oldest writings in history are preserved by some of the major religions. Whether these writings contain fact or fiction, what they DO bring us is a knowledge of ancient thought. You may not consider this knowledge, but as far as I know, insight into the past was considered as much a knowledge as anything else.