Co-Determinism and the Reality of Free Will

Write4U said:
I understand QQ perspective. I used to think the same way. I just knew I had free will, how could I not have?
We have ability to choose, but presence or lack of motive does not allow us to choose different than what we choose.
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No you don't...
focus on "learning ability" and see where that leads you.
There are no web resources to copy and paste from. This is new turf...
 
Write4U said:
I understand QQ perspective. I used to think the same way. I just knew I had free will, how could I not have?
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I never realy thout about free will but in hind-sight im sure i figered i had it... after all... i made choices all the time... but at 19 when i was at a borin job an thankin about anythang but my job... lol... it began to occur to me how life changin it can be dependin on which parents you have... an also what country you are born an raised in... an on an on until i got-it that ther is no escapain determinism... an as far as i knew i was the first to realize the concept... lol.!!!

At the time i didnt even know the term "determinism" or that the notion of "free will" was what i was tryin to understand... the Liberry wasnt a lot of help sinse i didnt even know the terms i needed to look up... but internet discussion forums opened the door... especialy Sciforums.!!!

In Condulson:::

Im glad i had that borin job :)
 
cluelusshusbund said:
I never realy thout about free will but in hind-sight im sure i figered i had it... after all... i made choices all the time... but at 19 when i was at a borin job an thankin about anythang but my job... lol... it began to occur to me how life changin it can be dependin on which parents you have... an also what country you are born an raised in... an on an on until i got-it that ther is no escapain determinism... an as far as i knew i was the first to realize the concept... lol.!!!

At the time i didnt even know the term "determinism" or that the notion of "free will" was what i was tryin to understand... the Liberry wasnt a lot of help sinse i didnt even know the terms i needed to look up... but internet discussion forums opened the door... especialy Sciforums.!!!

In Condulson:::

Im glad i had that borin job :)
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You are on a roll!!! :)
Now think for a bit, the big question:
Why is there suffering?
Use the suffering at your boring job as an example.
What did that suffering at the job lead to?

No need to answer here but you is on a roll man!!!
"There is nor right or wrong answer, they are just steps along the path towards a truth that can never be reached..." ~ I forget who....
 
Quantum Quack said:
like I stated and have been stating for so many pages and so many posts...
Universal predetermination has evolved humans to have the ability to learn the ability to self determine......
I am glad that you finally worked it out....
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Determinism is not a skill you can learn, it is a logical process to which all extant things in the universe are subjected.
 
Quantum Quack said:
Do you know the difference beween 4 fingers and a thumb....?
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The thumb is an opposing digit to the other 4 digits and is sufficient for performing delicate tasks requiring extreme hand-eye coordination and flexibility.
The five digits form a variable claw which can adjust to many contours of an object. It is another triumph of evolution.
 
Write4U said:
The thumb is an opposing digit to the other 4 digits and is sufficient for performing delicate tasks requiring extreme hand-eye coordination and flexibility.
The five digits form a variable claw which can adjust to many contours of an object. It is another triumph of evolution.
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The thumb is also not called a finger and is considered separately to the fingers for very good reason... which is?
 
Quantum Quack said:
The thumb is also not called a finger and is considered separately to the fingers for very good reason... which is?
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Am I your HS teacher? I already answered you in post# 640. Do you actually read words?
Thumb Definition,
Thumb refers to the first digit of the human hand, set apart and opposable to the other four digits of the hand. Appendages like your fingers, toes, and thumbs are digits. So humans usually have five digits per hand, one of which is the thumb.
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Let's see.
Can you answer this riddle posed by the fair princess to her suitors; "Is it colder upstairs than in the winter?"

Answer; (highlight) "Your Highness, be it upstairs or down, winter or fall, when and wherever you are, your radiance gives comfort to us all"
 
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Write4U said:
Let's see.
Can you answer this riddle posed by the fair princess to her suitors; "Is it colder upstairs than in the winter?"
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Mirror mirror on the wall
Can ask of thee and be so bold
Who is responsible for this room so cold?
"But God is!, silly, or so I have been told"
So Mirror mirror on the wall
Can I ask of God , to be so bold
light my fire so not so cold
This room above in this house so old.
Do it yourself the mirror told.

For God cares little whether you are hot or cold.



hee hee... you have hit the muse in me.....5minutes, no major corrections.... hmmmm... learning all the time...
 
iceaura said:
The universe - aside from its human component and a couple of similar isolated backwaters - does not appear to calculate at all. It just runs. What evidence to you have that the universe - other than a few living beings it incorporates - "calculates"?
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iceaura said:
Causal determination does not exclude natural events and circumstances, events that occur in accordance with physical law and cause/effect circumstances.
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Seems you answered your own question.
Predictably running in accordance with physical laws involves natural calculus of relative values and functions as evident by the measurably consistent results.

This does not mean a guy with a pencil is sitting in space scribbling little symbols on a cloud in the sky.

Mathematical values and orderly interactive physical functions are an essential aspect of physical spacetime geometry and its inherent potentials.
Causal universal patterns are mathematical constructs and exist both physically as well as metaphysically as Implicate Orders (Bohm).

Gravity and its causal effects on the fabric of space is a deterministic mathematically ordered physical pattern to which all physical objects respond in a very specific and calculable manner.

Else there is only Chaos. And demonstrably the universe is not Chaos but many sets of mathematically self-ordering patterns which emerged from Chaos.
 
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Perhaps having a look at the word "determine" in some depth may be of value. What do we mean by the term (in context) "I determined that I eat toast for breakfast" or other common applications.
 
Quantum Quack said:
Perhaps having a look at the word "determine" in some depth may be of value. What do we mean by the term (in context) "I determined that I eat toast for breakfast" or other common applications.
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Determinism is to follow a deterministic process, and does not imply free will. Will is an exercise of deterministic actions based on deterministic prior causes, based on.......turtles all the way down.
You asked so I'll post it again.
determinism, noun
PHILOSOPHY ; the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will.
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or
Determinism often is taken to mean causal determinism, which in physics is known as cause-and-effect. It is the concept that events within a given paradigm are bound by causality in such a way that any state (of an object or event) is completely determined by prior states.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

and here;
Determinism, in philosophy, theory that all events, including moral choices, are completely determined by previously existing causes. Determinism is usually understood to preclude free will because it entails that humans cannot act otherwise than they do. The theory holds that the universe is utterly rational because complete knowledge of any given situation assures that unerring knowledge of its future is also possible.
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https://www.britannica.com/topic/determinism

That is the foundation for the concept that the universe is mathematical in essence, from the very subtle to gross expression in reality. It validates the concept of Determinism itself.
 
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Write4U said:
Determinism is to follow a deterministic process, and does not imply free will. Will is an exercise of deterministic actions based on deterministic prior causes, based on.......turtles all the way down.
You asked so I'll post it again.

or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

and here;
https://www.britannica.com/topic/determinism

That is the foundation for the concept that the universe is mathematical in essence, from the very subtle to gross expression in reality. It validates the concept of Determinism itself.
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Your post is incorrectly related. Another "honest" mistake perhaps?

Firstly I wasn't referring to determinism I was referring to the verb "determine" as in "to determine something one must....?"

In the context of your post:
You appear to be determined to use this thread as a way to demonstrate how inadequate your ability is to determine the difference between the verb determine and the philosophical field of Determinism.

To further your learning the capacity to self determine perhaps you could take a look at the word Immaterial and compare it to Immaterialism?

Common dictionary meaning:
determine
/dɪˈtəːmɪn/

Learn to pronounce

verb
verb: determine; 3rd person present: determines; past tense: determined; past participle: determined; gerund or present participle: determining
  1. 1.
    cause (something) to occur in a particular way or to have a particular nature.
    "it will be her mental attitude that determines her future"
    synonyms:control, decide, regulate, direct, rule, dictate, govern, condition, form, shape;More
    affect, have an effect on, influence, exert influence on, sway, act on, work on, mould, modify, alter, touch, have an impact on, impact on
    "it is this last pair of chromosomes which determines the sex of the embryo"
    prompt, impel, induce, influence, sway, lead, move, cause, motivate, stimulate, prod, spur on, provoke, incite, dispose, incline, persuade, encourage, urge, inspire;
    make
    "I am not sure what determined her to write to me"
    deciding, decisive, conclusive, final, settling, definitive, key, pivotal, crucial, critical, most influential, significant, major, chief, principal, prime, paramount
    "the size of your house may be the determining factor"
  2. 2.
    ascertain or establish exactly by research or calculation.
    "the inquest is entrusted with the task of determining the cause of death"
    synonyms:find out, discover, ascertain, learn, establish, fix, settle, decide, calculate, work out, make out, fathom (out), get/come to know, ferret out, deduce, divine, intuit, diagnose, discern, check, verify, confirm, make certain of, certify;More
 
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