but it is a computer generated (CG) image on your screen yes?
is that CG image part of the universe or not?
Co-Determinism and the Reality of Free Will
- Thread starter Quantum Quack
- Start date
is that CG image part of the universe or not?
Do you think Einstein wrote all his equations purely by instinct?
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
No, you posted this, don't now assign that to me.
I do not think nor claim that .
IMO, humans are subject to everyday common universal determinism as defined by mainstream science, whether they like it or not.
What do you think humans do when they think? It's really a purely instinctive/reflexive brain function. What makes your brain tick? Are you facile enough to answer that question?
......... "facile"...... really?
Huh?
So do you control your thoughts or not?
Have you ever met someone who has little control over their thinking.... it's often called Paranoid Schizophrenia, sometimes it relates to ADHD, or autism spectrum disorder...
or in Trumps case severe impulse management problems...
Einstein had to have incredible learned self disciple over his thoughts to arrive at the equations he did...
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
A value is a value regardless of how it is written symbolically.
Ever heard of an item which is so precious that it is considered priceless in value?
You have certainly pointed to what you think is an assumption, yet it is in fact the conclusion, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly. Without reformulating the argument not even you could reach the "assumption" that freedom doesn't exist (or "is supernatural" in your parlance) without it being an actual conclusion of the logic. You simply see the conclusion and thus wrap it up as being part of the assumption. Much like you clearly thinking one assumes Socrates is mortal simply because we assume he is human, right?
Your ignorance of your blatant dishonesty in this regard does you no favours.
If you expect us to "learn" the bs that you're peddling in this regard, and then the blatant reformulation as if it is the form of the actual argument, when all you can otherwise do is show hos the assumption is indeed the conclusion, then you'll be here a loooong time. But no doubt you will continue your fallacious approach - you are a very slow learner.
I fully expect you to support your claim, otherwise there is nothing worth checking.
There is nothing to check here, as it is the logical conclusion of causal determination. The universe is a perfect calculator of the system. It has perfect knowledge of the system. The rest is simply a logical implication of what it means to be causally deterministic. Any inability to predict in such a universe is due to lack of knowledge. So yes, humans, or anything with sub-perfect knowledge will not be able to predict. And yes, indeterminism will introduce an inability for even the universe to have perfect knowledge. But for the deterministic universe, theoretically everything is predetermined. Which means that with full knowledge of the current (or any previous) state, and full knowledge of the governing laws, any future state can be predicted. This has been explained to you before, by others. I really shouldn't have to be explaining it again. But no doubt you will make the same mistake again - you're a very slow learner.
So, if you disagree, provide the evidence. Provide the supposed mathematical proof that you think this goes against. Put up, or shut up.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Obviously you have never paid any attention to my links to a comprehensive lecture on brain function by Anil Seth.
Our human brains make "best guesses" of what it is our senses observe. Seth calls them "controlled hallucinations" and explains why he does that.
Really, his teacher didn't think so.
Some idiot savants outperform "normal' people in mathematics by a mile, which proves that computing powers are independent of mental discipline. This is raw computing power.
p.s. interoception is a mental ability without conscious discipline. it's functio is to keep you alive, yet you have no clue how it does that, unless something goes wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interoception
Last edited:
why does he call them controlled?
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Because the information is being verified at a subconscious level. This is not by will.
You create your reality from the inside out as much as from the outside in. Watch the clip. It's really informative.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Good answer, expected.
With a video even....
Last edited:
I am not trying to insult you...
I was curious to see how your mind worked....
In a deterministic universe… the taste buds i have an what they savor was predetermined befor i was even born… an when it comes to what im havin for breakfast im the one who makes the final choice… an i choose pancakes… see… i coud have chosen egges but I like pancakes beter… an unless thers some reason to change... i have no choice but to use my co-deterministic free will an always choose pancakes.!!!
Well anyhow… the pont is… when i make a choice its my choice because i ignore anythang in the deterministic universe that led up to the choice i made… an learnin to do that is how i now have free will… an its the same for everbody else whether they realize it or not.!!!
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
If you like pancakes better than anything else for breakfast, you are not choosing and it is pre-determined that you will select pancakes.
Nahhh..... it is more subtle than that.
You will always select in the direction of your greatest satisfaction, which taste is acquired by your prior experiences. You cannot ignore your past experiences, they are part of you and will determine your future choices at all times.
If you had a real choice, you would never be able to choose from between your two favorites. Your eventual selection will always be in the direction of greatest satisfaction (the thing you like best). That's a hard-wired deterministic imperative.
Nature does not make choices for you, your past experiences condition your future choices and then it is no longer from FW.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Logically?
To your last statement ; agreed .
But what if you question and analyse , past experiences ? Nature can question and does . Your Nature .
Inotherwords ; grow from past experiences .
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Agreed. Experience does educate and results in greater depth of understanding and sophistication of choice. But that is still just a logical extension and expressions of the concept and principle of determinism.
Oddly, it just occurred to me that evolution itself is a deterministic function (potentials and probabilities).
It's nice to know that determinism is a common denominator of all things in the universe. It provides for universal self-formation of regular orders, with occasional local uncertainties. From formation of galaxies, to formation of stars and planets, to formation of biological cells.
From the Implicate order to hardwired DNA...............
Last edited:
Agreed. Experience does educate and results in greater depth of understanding and sophistication of choice. But that is still just a logical extension and expressions of the concept and principle of determinism.
Oddly, it just occurred to me that evolution itself is a deterministic function (potentials and probabilities).
It's nice to know that determinism is a common denominator of all things in the universe. It provides for universal self-formation of regular orders, with occasional local uncertainties. From formation of galaxies, to formation of stars and planets, to formation of biological cells.
From the implicate order to hardwired DNA...............
Determination is based on the infinity of physical things .
DNA is not hardwired .
Last edited:
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Perhaps an infinity in expression of patterns?
It most certainly is.
Wikipedia
Chromosome 2 is what sets us intellectually apart from other great apes. It is a hardwired mutation consisting of 2 fused single chromosomes from our common hominid ancestor, which allowed a more efficient growth coding and folding of brain tissue, resulting in greater capacity for abstract thought in humans, whereas other great apes retained the older DNA and the limiting brain capacity for learning.
Great apes have 48 chromosomes.
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/chromosome/2
Last edited: