cloned slave fun

[Nasor]

Suppose I want a slave, so I decide to clone someone and make the clone a slave. Since I'm feeling charitable, I'll let the clone go free after 30 years. I have no interest in making the clone if they can't/won't be my slave.

Most people would agree that this would be morally wrong, since people shouldn't be slaves and all that. But wouldn't the clone likely prefer slavery to non-existence? If we could somehow ask the clone (who didn't exist yet, so it's really impossible, but we can probably confidently predict what his answer would be) whether I should go through with my plan, wouldn't he probably say "Yes, by all means create me, even if I'll have to be your slave for 30 years!"

I think it's interesting that most people would agree that I shouldn't clone myself a slave because it would violate the rights of the clone, even though the clone -if he existed yet- would almost certainly beg to be created, preferring 30 years of slavery to nonexistence.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

erm no, the non existant being would not prefer existance of slavery to non existance,


Real slaves threatened with death for running away would never have dared do so if this was the case? But they did, as the chance for freedomn was greater than fear of death and non existance was preferable to slavery. For some..........

 

[J.B]

It matters what color your cloned slave would be.

So, what color would you like your cloned slave to be?

 

[TW Scott]

Actually only in some people was the desire for freedom greater than fear of death, and some of those cases were probably rightly assuming they would die at their masters hand soon anyway. Slavery has been around a long time. In many cultures they were wel treated and simple unpaid workers and in others they were greatly abused. I am not saying I would want slavery back and defiantely not black slavery. But it is something to think about to wonder if abolitionism would have been as popular if the southern cotton farmers had universally treated their slaves well.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

erm no, the non existant being would not prefer existance of slavery to non existance,


Real slaves threatened with death for running away would never have dared do so if this was the case? But they did, as the chance for freedomn was greater than fear of death and non existance was preferable to slavery. For some..........[/QUOTE]

TW Scott, you will note I DID say SOME.............

I am a slave and I only do it because my masters are my kids and I get cuddles for payment, but otherwise being at someones beck and call 24hrs sucks! parenting is a thanklesss job.

Anyway back to slave clones, if slave clone could think before it existed then it's free already and existing already so why would they choose slavery just to exist?

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

Actually only in some people was the desire for freedom greater than fear of death, and some of those cases were probably rightly assuming they would die at their masters hand soon anyway. Slavery has been around a long time. In many cultures they were wel treated and simple unpaid workers and in others they were greatly abused. I am not saying I would want slavery back and defiantely not black slavery. But it is something to think about to wonder if abolitionism would have been as popular if the southern cotton farmers had universally treated their slaves well.

Being well treated as slave is nothing comapred to being 'free', so well treated or not, it should never return.

 

[Nasor]

erm no, the non existant being would not prefer existance of slavery to non existance,


Real slaves threatened with death for running away would never have dared do so if this was the case? But they did, as the chance for freedomn was greater than fear of death and non existance was preferable to slavery. For some..........

Presumably a slave who risks death to run away believes he has at least some chance of successful escape. Most people are willing to risk their life for a chance at freedom if they believe they have a reasonable chance of success, but I think practically no one would prefer certain death (or in this case non-existence, I suppose you could argue with whether or not it's the same thing) to slavery. Perhaps slaves will risk their lives to escape, but how many would commit suicide? You can also assume that the clone would be treated relatively humanely, if it makes you feel better.

Anyway back to slave clones, if slave clone could think before it existed then it's free already and existing already so why would they choose slavery just to exist?

I think almost any person would choose slavery to nonexistence, assuming they weren't going to be very badly mistreated. Also, you'll note that I'm planning to let the clone go free after 30 years, so he would certainly have something to live for.

To be clear, I’m not advocating that we bring back slavery. I’m just pointing out what I think is an interesting kink in the way people view things. Most people who say that you shouldn’t create a clone slave because it would be bad/unfair to the clone – but if you really want to argue that position from the perspective of the best interests of a potential clone slave, then I don’t think that sort of argument holds up; although being born into slavery would be bad for the slave, it would seem that the alternative of the slave never existing in the first place would be even worse for the hypothetical person whose rights we are considering.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

NO, I wouldn't prefer to be a slave to non existance, so there u are.

 

[Hapsburg]

since people shouldn't be slaves and all that.

Says who? Slavery, when not mixed with racism, is a very effecient and cost-effective system.

would violate the rights of the clone

If the clone is a slave, it thus has no rights, thus no one can whine.

 

[Nasor]

NO, I wouldn't prefer to be a slave to non existance, so there u are.

Obviously I can't prove you wrong, but I suspect that if it really came down to it you would choose 30 years of slavery to death. Of course you might be telling the truth, but in that case I think you would be a very, very rare exception.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

You are correct, I am rare, NO I would NOT choose 30yrs of slavery in preference to death, I do not fear death.

I would NEVER submit to anyones control.

I would either successfully run a way or I'd kill you and all your family successfully and then run away. Happy cloning!

 

[J.B]

I am not saying I would want slavery back and defiantely not black slavery.

Ya, "defiantely not black slavery".

I agree with you, I would not want blacks as slaves either, their very lazy on the average.

Mexican's would make the best slaves.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

...even though the clone -if he existed yet- would almost certainly beg to be created, preferring 30 years of slavery to nonexistence.

Almost certainly? I would say no, it's not certain at all. History is full of people who preferred death to slavery, and for periods a lot shorter than 30 years.

 

[Lil Light Foot]

Those people who chose death over slavery had already experienced life though, we're saying, would someone really, genuinely, choose to never come into existance at all, over being in slavery for 30 years, then to have 30 or more years free as their own.

 

[Nasor]

Those people who chose death over slavery had already experienced life though, we're saying, would someone really, genuinely, choose to never come into existance at all, over being in slavery for 30 years, then to have 30 or more years free as their own.

Indeed. It's easy to find examples in history of

1) people who were willing to risk death for a slim chance at freedom
2) people who preferred to die fighting (after experiencing a significant amount of life) rather than to lose their freedom
3) people who were willing to die for causes that they considered more important than their own life (their country/god/revenge/whatever)

However, it seems unlikely to me that anyone would choose total non-existence over 30 years of slavery followed by many decades of freedom.

 

[Nasor]

You are correct, I am rare, NO I would NOT choose 30yrs of slavery in preference to death, I do not fear death.

Perhaps you don't fear death, but do you enjoy life at all? So long as your total level of enjoyment of life was greater than your discomfort, it would seem that you should still prefer to live even if you don't particularly fear death. I presume you enjoy life at least a little, otherwise you presumably would have killed yourself rather than deal with the first trivial inconvenience that life presented you.

I'm curious, exactly how long would you be willing to be subjugated rather than die? Would you rather die than be forced to spend half an hour mowing someone's lawn?

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

Perhaps you don't fear death, but do you enjoy life at all? So long as your total level of enjoyment of life was greater than your discomfort, it would seem that you should still prefer to live even if you don't particularly fear death. I presume you enjoy life at least a little, otherwise you presumably would have killed yourself rather than deal with the first trivial inconvenience that life presented you.

I'm curious, exactly how long would you be willing to be subjugated rather than die? Would you rather die than be forced to spend half an hour mowing someone's lawn?

I would NEVER submit to anyones will unless it was in the protection of someone close to me, in which case I would be willing. I would attempt escape at every opportunity and I would PLOT your death. Why kill myself when I can kill you?

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

Meanwhile exactly what do you define as 'good treatment' for a slave? You gonna give them their own house? Let them marry and raise a family? Allow a social and private life?Allow them to be educated, Give them money for their own things? Allow them holidays without you? What do you call 'GOOD treatment'?

The question, choose not to exist or 30yrs of savery is stupid as if they don't exist there is no desire to exist.

 

[kazakhan]

...we're saying, would someone really, genuinely, choose to never come into existance at all, over being in slavery for 30 years, then to have 30 or more years free as their own.

Yes, I would choose non-existance, however I think it's a ridiculous question. You have no choice in being brought into this pseudo existance in the first place so why bother making a choice? The obvious thing to do though would be to choose slavery and as soon as the opportunity arises make another choice like removing the slave drivers head from their shoulders

Would you rather die than be forced to spend half an hour mowing someone's lawn?

Potentially, I probably wouldn't do my own lawn under threat of death. I pay someone else to do it

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

Yes, I would choose non-existance, however I think it's a ridiculous question. You have no choice in being brought into this pseudo existance in the first place so why bother making a choice? The obvious thing to do though would be to choose slavery and as soon as the opportunity arises make another choice like removing the slave drivers head from their shoulders

Potentially, I probably wouldn't do my own lawn under threat of death. I pay someone else to do it

Well said, FREE the CLONES!