Christmas and Hanukah

F

Fafnir665

You just got served.
Registered Senior Member
Is it just a coincidence that Christmas and Hanukah fall at around the same time each year?

I know that supposedly, Hanukah came first to celebrate the victory in 165 B.C. of the Maccabees over Antiochus Epiphanes, and the rededication of the Temple of Jerusalem.

I also know that Christmas signifies the birth of Christ in 32BC (I think).

Both religions believe in the same god, but the jews don't accept the New Testement (right?)....


So why should both "big" holidays fall at around the same time as each other each year?
 
Originally posted by Fafnir665
Is it just a coincidence that Christmas and Hanukah fall at around the same time each year?

I know that supposedly, Hanukah came first to celebrate the victory in 165 B.C. of the Maccabees over Antiochus Epiphanes, and the rededication of the Temple of Jerusalem.

I also know that Christmas signifies the birth of Christ in 32BC (I think).

Both religions believe in the same god, but the jews don't accept the New Testement (right?)....

So why should both "big" holidays fall at around the same time as each other each year?
----------
M*W: Good question. The writers of the NT purposefully wrote that Christmas fell around Hannakah to detract from Judaism. Also, the Christian writers (Paul and company) wrote that the NT fulfillments coincided with the OT prophecies. The NT is false. Technically, it shouldn't even exist. It's all lies. Just like Jesus the Savior is all lies. Christianity shouldn't even exist. It's only because Christianity has controlled the minds of its believers for 2,000 years now. It's finally declining. There is a God, but it's not Jesus.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Re: Christmas and Hanukah

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
The writers of the NT purposefully wrote that Christmas fell around Hannakah to detract from Judaism.
Click to expand...
Your pervasive ignorance is laughable. The writers of the NT had nothing to do with the date selection. December 25th was established by by Pope Julius I in 350. If the intent was to detract/co-opt, the target was most likely the Roman Saturnalia. To see how stupid the supposed 'Hannakah' connection really is, one need only note that last year Chanukah began on November 29th.
 
Re: Re: Re: Christmas and Hanukah

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Your pervasive ignorance is laughable. The writers of the NT had nothing to do with the date selection. December 25th was established by by Pope Julius I in 350. If the intent was to detract/co-opt, the target was most likely the Roman Saturnalia. To see how stupid the supposed 'Hannakah' connection really is, one need only note that last year Chanukah began on November 29th.
Click to expand...

Hence why I said "fall around the same time" I know their not exactly the same, but whens the last time hannakah was in june? or may.. It's the time of year.
 
The NT is false. Technically, it shouldn't even exist. It's all lies. Just like Jesus the Savior is all lies. Christianity shouldn't even exist.
you don't have to be disrespectful to make your point heard.

as far as Channukah goes (or whatever the english spelling is), it goes by the Jewish calendar which is 5764 years old...slightly older than Christianity

also, Jesus was supposedly born in the year "zero". i heard some conspiracies that Dec. 25th was chosen very recently, in the last 3-4 centuries to pull attention from the pagans' holidays

also, the New Testament is just the Old Testament with one book added (or a collection) by King James or something.. who was nothing but a human.
the idea is that you can't add anything to or erease anything from the bible...... so, according to Judaism, Christianity is ...... not kosher :D
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Christmas and Hanukah

Originally posted by Fafnir665
Hence why I said "fall around the same time" I know their not exactly the same, but whens the last time hannakah was in june? or may.. It's the time of year.
Click to expand...
Good grief! When in doubt, why not actually read something, perhaps starting with a description of the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
 
Re: Re: Christmas and Hanukah

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
There is a God, but it's not Jesus.
Click to expand...
And erm, how long have you been thinking that Jesus was a God - you're a scream :D
 
Originally posted by M*W
The NT is false. Technically, it shouldn't even exist. It's all lies. Just like Jesus the Savior is all lies. Christianity shouldn't even exist.
Click to expand...

Originally posted by otheadp
you don't have to be disrespectful to make your point heard.
Click to expand...
Well said otheadp!!! Some people are just plain ignorant.


also, Jesus was supposedly born in the year "zero". i heard some conspiracies that Dec. 25th was chosen very recently, in the last 3-4 centuries to pull attention from the pagans' holidays

also, the New Testament is just the Old Testament with one book added (or a collection) by King James or something.. who was nothing but a human.
Click to expand...
Oh boy otheadp, I wouldn't say any more right now if I were you. The hole you just dug looks pretty deep. :D
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Christmas and Hanukah

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Good grief! When in doubt, why not actually read something, perhaps starting with a description of the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
Click to expand...

When was the last time it was in may?

And where did I say they must be related somehow. I'm asking if the may.
 
Originally posted by Vienna
I wanna see if anyone else notices. :D
Click to expand...
Don't be so harsh. I'm sure that the 17th century was rife with Pagan holidays just waiting to be co-opted. Maybe we should ask M*W - her grasp of history is always novel.
 
Re: Christmas and Chanukkah

Originally posted by Fafnir665
Is it just a coincidence that Christmas and Hanukah fall at around the same time each year?
Click to expand...
Obviously not. The Roman Empire was a quintessential bureaucracy and kept meticulous records. The tax collectors came to Judea in April, not December. Assuming for the sake of the argument that Jesus existed, he was born in April.

Most cultures have a celebration at the beginning of each season. The Romans had Saturnalia at the beginning of winter. The Jews had Chanukkah. Their calendar waffles around a lot more than the Gregorian calendar so Chanukkah doesn't always fall very close to the winter solstice, but it was their winter festival.

When the Christians took power in Rome they moved Christ's birthday a quarter of a year backward to give people something to celebrate instead of Saturnalia.

Hey, we Yanks do the same thing on a smaller scale but a larger scope. Every year we move George Washington's birthday and several other historic dates from their actual days to the nearest Monday, so we can have a three day weekend. It's no different!

You get the same thing with Pesach (Passover) and Easter. In this case neither festival is fixed on a specific date on either calendar so neither one hits the vernal equinox on the head very often, but they come more or less at the same time.

It's no coincidence. People love to celebrate the changing of the seasons so their religions obligingly come up with a reason to do so.

Chanukkah was actually never a very prominent Jewish holiday. It's only since Christian culture outpaced the Christian religion as a timekeeping paradigm in the Western world that the Jews decided collectively to give their kids something so they wouldn't feel left out. It's sort of like Kwanzaa. There's no such thing in Africa, it's completely made up like the legends of Middle Earth or the rituals of the Klingons. But it gives the black community something to celebrate around the winter solstice that is about them and not about us. For the millions of us who don't believe that Jesus's birth was a real event, Kwanzaa is actually just as legitimate as Christmas!

Point to ponder: The two most prominent symbols of Christianity are Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
 
The NT is false. Technically, it shouldn't even exist. It's all lies. Just like Jesus the Savior is all lies. Christianity shouldn't even exist.
Click to expand...
It is based on Judaism: Jesus was 'king of the Jews'. Even if he didn't exist the principle is that if you follow jesus you will live forever, but then if this is so true why must it be created? Why didn't the creators/writers give us accounts of how they knew these truths to be so. I know why, and I'm sure you do too, so the Jews expect their follows to have faith in something that is a lie. However it seems from the story that the Jews were intelligent people who did in fact base christianity on truths, and certain facts, and this doesn't make their story any less beleivable or any less true. I agree with what seems to be your view though: it's shitty that they based it on a lie. Again though, if one does follow the basic laws one should do well! :)
 
Originally posted by Hemlock
It is based on Judaism: Jesus was 'king of the Jews'. Even if he didn't exist the principle is that if you follow jesus you will live forever, but then if this is so true why must it be created? Why didn't the creators/writers give us accounts of how they knew these truths to be so. I know why, and I'm sure you do too, so the Jews expect their follows to have faith in something that is a lie. However it seems from the story that the Jews were intelligent people who did in fact base christianity on truths, and certain facts, and this doesn't make their story any less beleivable or any less true. I agree with what seems to be your view though: it's shitty that they based it on a lie. Again though, if one does follow the basic laws one should do well! :)
----------
M*W: I would agree that in Jesus' time, the closest of his followers and family were devout Jews who had no intention of leaving Judaism much less embracing a new religion. Jesus' brother James was a Rabbi who presided over the Jews in Jerusalem. When Paul stole from the Jerusalem church and tried to have (or did have) James murdered, among other immoral acts he committed, Jesus' family fiercely hated Paul. Of course, this was way after Jesus' time in Jerusalem as he had never actually met Paul nor recruited him as one of his apostles. Paul, the creatory of the myth of Christianity, was a liar, a thief, and a murderer. He didn't preach Jesus' philosophy, he preached Paul's philosophy about Jesus. As you know, there are no known records of Jesus' own writings. Therefore, I find it hard to claim Christianity was based on Jesus' teachings. Jesus' taught the laws and customs of Judaism--not some new-fangled religious ideas about the trinity, his own miracle birth, or something called salvation.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
Jesus' brother James was a Rabbi who presided over the Jews in Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
Your pretense of knowing anything about Judaism is insulting. Thankfully, you expose yourself so frequently that you should have zero credibility to anyone who pays attention.
 
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Your pretense of knowing anything about Judaism is insulting. Thankfully, you expose yourself so frequently that you should have zero credibility to anyone who pays attention.

----------
M*W: Then consider yourself insulted.
Click to expand...
 
M*W: I would agree that in Jesus' time, the closest of his followers and family were devout Jews who had no intention of leaving Judaism much less embracing a new religion. Jesus' brother James was a Rabbi who presided over the Jews in Jerusalem. When Paul stole from the Jerusalem church and tried to have (or did have) James murdered, among other immoral acts he committed, Jesus' family fiercely hated Paul. Of course, this was way after Jesus' time in Jerusalem as he had never actually met Paul nor recruited him as one of his apostles. Paul, the creatory of the myth of Christianity, was a liar, a thief, and a murderer. He didn't preach Jesus' philosophy, he preached Paul's philosophy about Jesus. As you know, there are no known records of Jesus' own writings. Therefore, I find it hard to claim Christianity was based on Jesus' teachings. Jesus' taught the laws and customs of Judaism--not some new-fangled religious ideas about the trinity, his own miracle birth, or something called salvation.
Click to expand...
Josephus( a Jew and unlikely to be influenced by Paul) says
"Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top