Christians are hypocrites, or, On selective observation

W

water

the sea
Registered Senior Member
Christians are hypocrites, or, On selective observation



It is often claimed here that Christians are hypocrites because all (or even most) of the people who call themselves Christians do not adhere to what the Bible says.

But so is everyone else who declares himself to be a member of a religion, follower of a philosophy -- also a hypocrite:

Most Buddhists are hypocrites because they don't fully adhere to the teachings of the Buddha. Monks keep on asking stupid questions, thus, they aren't true Buddhists.

All atheists who ever utter the word "god" are hypocrites as they supposedly have no belief in God or gods, or claim that god doesn't exist. (So how can you talk about something you have no belief in?)

All nihilists who do something are hypocrites as a nihilist should do nothing in order to be true to nihilism.

All relativists who say anything are hypocrites as per relativism, all is relative, so there's nothing to say, ever, not even "But it could be otherwise as well".

All vegetarians who are vegetarians because they believe it is wrong to kill animals for our benefit, are hypocrites if they wear genuine leather shoes, leather bags, drive a car with leather polstering, or if they use anything made by a person who was using leather or ate meat.


And so on, ever so on.



How do we make our judgments of people and philosophies or religions, on what do we base them?

Do we judge a philosophy or a religion by people who say they belong to it?

Do we judge people based on the perfection with which they adhere to what they proclaim to adhere to?


It should be obvious that both approaches are reductionisms, and as such, inherently flawed.
 
Hi water,

Why do we need to judge in the first place? Why do we need to fit into a category where we need to proclaim a “ist” or a “ity” or a “ism”? This is the major characteristic of the Christian god. JUDGEMENT. You are written in his little black book. Ticks and crosses. That’s what your human value boils down to in the eyes of this god. Can you see the problem here?

Allcare.
 
stretched said:
Hi water,

Why do we need to judge in the first place? Why do we need to fit into a category where we need to proclaim a “ist” or a “ity” or a “ism”? This is the major characteristic of the Christian god. JUDGEMENT. You are written in his little black book. Ticks and crosses. That’s what your human value boils down to in the eyes of this god. Can you see the problem here?

Allcare.
Click to expand...

Don't revert, you are committing the same isms fallacy as the one you scold.

Look at threads like this: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=42174

What empiricist can afford such a selective observation?


Isms rule, with or without Christianity.
The question is why are isms so popular. Labeling. Pigeonholing.
People have been doing it for ages.
 
water said:
All atheists who ever utter the word "god" are hypocrites as they supposedly have no belief in God or gods, or claim that god doesn't exist. (So how can you talk about something you have no belief in?)
Click to expand...
Firstly, people can happily use words without needing to believe in them.
I can talk about little green aliens from Mars, but have no belief in them.
I can talk about invisible monkeys sitting on my desk, but have no belief in them.

Secondly, don't confuse use of a word or a name (e.g. God, Jesus Christ), especially as an expletive, with a belief in the origins of that saying. If you believe it, fine, but if you're an atheist it doesn't mean you can no longer exclaim "Jesus Christ!" when you're almost run over. If you have no belief in the name then it is just a name. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
water when does observing become judging, ie if you make an observation, say for instance about how a black man dances or what god he believes in, and I speak about it to others am I being judgmental, no I'm making an observation.
 
water said:
Christians are hypocrites, or, On selective observation



It is often claimed here that Christians are hypocrites because all (or even most) of the people who call themselves Christians do not adhere to what the Bible says.

But so is everyone else who declares himself to be a member of a religion, follower of a philosophy -- also a hypocrite:

Most Buddhists are hypocrites because they don't fully adhere to the teachings of the Buddha. Monks keep on asking stupid questions, thus, they aren't true Buddhists.

All atheists who ever utter the word "god" are hypocrites as they supposedly have no belief in God or gods, or claim that god doesn't exist. (So how can you talk about something you have no belief in?)

All nihilists who do something are hypocrites as a nihilist should do nothing in order to be true to nihilism.

All relativists who say anything are hypocrites as per relativism, all is relative, so there's nothing to say, ever, not even "But it could be otherwise as well".

All vegetarians who are vegetarians because they believe it is wrong to kill animals for our benefit, are hypocrites if they wear genuine leather shoes, leather bags, drive a car with leather polstering, or if they use anything made by a person who was using leather or ate meat.


And so on, ever so on.



How do we make our judgments of people and philosophies or religions, on what do we base them?

Do we judge a philosophy or a religion by people who say they belong to it?

Do we judge people based on the perfection with which they adhere to what they proclaim to adhere to?


It should be obvious that both approaches are reductionisms, and as such, inherently flawed.
Click to expand...

Minor nit, Aethiest do not deny the existance of Gods, but rather deny the immortality or permeance of a God or Gods, or so I was taught in my education . Therefor Agnostics can believe in God

Also, christians who do not adhere to the bible, and do so on a continuous and consisten basis and knowingly continue to do so with asking regrettfully for forgiveness they are not true Christians. The same can be said for Jews and Muslims also. Christians who adhere to the bible, but fall from grace via bad deeds, but are sincerely apologetic about it are Christian. The concept of Christianity, Islam, and I think also Judaism is based on the fact that Humans can, and almost certainly will fall from Grace. This is the reason Jesus died for us in Christianity, and this is why Allah/God forgives our sins in Islam. He knew we would sin, and forgives us when we do, be it through the blood payment of Christ in Christianity, or the ask and repentance in Islam.
 
Question:

What does it matter to a belief if ones who believe in it can not live up to it?

An alcoholic can truly believe drinking alcohol is bad for him and he can tell everyone about it. But being an alcoholic he ( or she, lets not be sexist here LOL) cannot control His desire for vodka for long and will eventually give in and get plastered.

Is he a hypocrite?

Does his hypocrisy have any bearing on the truth or otherwise of his stated belief that alcohol is bad for him?

So what’s this.. ummmm.. fixation with judging the message by the messengers ability to conform to it?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: Hi again water :D
 
Hypocrisy is more a state than something that can be expressed with actions. Your example of the alcoholic shows this. The alcoholic may teaching by his own experience and for the desire of helping others. In this case, his motive is clearly correct and he's not a hypocritic. On the other hand, the alcoholic could be attempting to show how "good" he is. In this case, his motives are hypocritical. Other examples, such as hiding his addiction are not hypocritical either, for his reason for hiding his addiction could be morally sound.
 
Water said:

Do we judge people based on the perfection with which they adhere to what they proclaim to adhere to?
Click to expand...

To a degree, but nobody's perfect. To wit:

Many people have endured my periodic rants about the conduct of my partner. Here we find a very simple contrast. She will assert, "I do not lie". Do we measure her by what she adheres to, or by the observation that she is, in fact, a chronic--possibly pathological--liar. She lies even when there's no stake to be had. And every once in a while, this causes trouble that spills outside our walls. For instance, she said a number of things recently that cast her father in the role of threatening me. So I called him and asked him why he was threatening me. Of course, he wasn't; that's the point. I explained to him that I actually knew that, although he couldn't resist the machismo, "If I wanted to threaten you I'd come over and do it myself." We've talked all of about four minutes on the subject, and he wants to sit down with us and figure out how he got dragged into that fight. He's retired; I'm home all day. We're awaiting my partner's word on when we should have this very necessary discussion. She keeps putting him off because she knows she's against the wall; she has already resorted to, "I never said that. You're crazy."​

Do we go by the principle of honesty that she espouses, or do we measure her actions? One is mere talk; the other affects other people's lives. I hope my daughter learns the princple, but what is she to make of her mother's behavior?
 
Ok there are 3 parts to this Hypocrisy puzzle.

1) A teaching/statement

2) The giver's belief in that teaching/statement.

3) The givers ability to adhere to/do that teaching/statement.

For some people if one does not have all 3 points covered then that person is a hypocrite. So the person delivering a teaching must believe in that teaching and must be able to successfully live that teaching, otherwise they are a Hypocrite.

So by that measure all follower of The Messiah Jesus are hypocrites. But that measure is one made by man.

God requires me to give the teachings of The Messiah and to believe in those teachings. But He does not require me to successfully do all the teachings but to have the right spirit, to try to do the teachings i believe.

A true hypocrite to me is one who gives teachings/statements that they themselves do not believe in. Some give teaching or statements because they want social status or they what to be esteemed in the eyes of those who here them. A politician may give a policy or a statement that they do not believe in just to win the support they need to keep the position they desire.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Water, just go follow the atheist congregation and get it over with. The atheist religion is waiting for YOU. Open your arms and embrace your true calling. Be the atheist you were meant to be. Ban together with the rest of them against religion, and claim your place at the right hand if the fanatics.
 
Quote w:
"Isms rule, with or without Christianity.
The question is why are isms so popular. Labeling. Pigeonholing.
People have been doing it for ages."

* So people deem themselves worthy in the eyes of society.
 
water said:
All atheists who ever utter the word "god" are hypocrites as they supposedly have no belief in God or gods, or claim that god doesn't exist. (So how can you talk about something you have no belief in?)
Click to expand...

I can think about many fantastical things I don´t think actually exist. What do you mean by ¨belief¨?
 
Tiassa,


The example with your partner is inherently different from the kind of hypocrisy listed in the opening post.
When your partner says she speaks the truth and never lies, she is not promulgating an ism.
 
Anyone and everyone who judges another is a hypocrit....period. And that is exactly what it says in the Bible.
 
Lori_7 said:
Anyone and everyone who judges another is a hypocrit....period. And that is exactly what it says in the Bible.
Click to expand...

In the bible, Jesus said you have to judge for the righteousness. I guess he is a hypocrit too.
 
Jesus is the only one without sin, is the source of all righteousness, and the only one qualified to judge. The Holy Spirit is the source of all truth, and one can discern without condemning. It's the condemnation that people have a problem with. The truth is that Jesus has never condemned me...He has never punished me, or made me feel bad about myself. My experience has been the exact opposite to the nth degree. His love is truly unconditional....no matter what...and grace is truly amazing, just like the song says. And it's not easy looking at yourself in the light. The lies of the flesh revealed by the truth of the spirit are not at all pretty. In fact, according to law, they are deadly. The Holy Spirit convicts, He does not condemn or punish. And judgement is a revelation of the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts, but finding the truth about Him and His love and who we are to Him is the meaning of life.
 
Lori_7 said:
Jesus is the only one without sin, is the source of all righteousness, and the only one qualified to judge.
Click to expand...

Woooee! Hold it. Of course Jesus is without sin. What can Jesus do, if true, make him a sinner? Jesus is without sin not because he doesn't but because people church would not allow him to sin. If Jesus ask you what he needs to do to sin, what would your answer be? It seems like it doesn't matter what he does, he still doesn't sin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top