Christians and scholarly biblical evidence.

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: Why is it that christians claim to have scholarly evidence about their god and religion but never read anything scholarly about it? I guess my question really asks, "why do they believe in fantasies?" I've come to understand, at least on sciforums, that christians are mouthpieces for their religion, but they never question nor research the foundations for their beliefs. Then, when they attempt to reply to any atheist query, they are at a loss for truth. Of course, that is the whole premise of blindly believing. In this day and time, believing in fantasies is ridiculous. When are these blind folks gonna see?

 

[Lori_7]

*************
M*W: Why is it that christians claim to have scholarly evidence about their god and religion but never read anything scholarly about it? I guess my question really asks, "why do they believe in fantasies?" I've come to understand, at least on sciforums, that christians are mouthpieces for their religion, but they never question nor research the foundations for their beliefs. Then, when they attempt to reply to any atheist query, they are at a loss for truth. Of course, that is the whole premise of blindly believing. In this day and time, believing in fantasies is ridiculous. When are these blind folks gonna see?

the foundation of a knowledge of god is a knowledge of god, and that doesn't come from a book, it comes from experience. talk about a blind belief, i don't understand how someone can claim to believe something because they study it. taking someone else's word, theory, or even testimony as gospel is stupid.

 

[Prince_James]

Lori 7:

How does one attain this intimate knowledge of God?

 

[Prince_James]

Medicine*Woman:

To be fair, Biblical criticism and scholarly critique has been a large part of Christianity for a long time. Thomas Hobbes (an English non-trinitarian materialist Christian philosopher) began modern Biblical criticism in the second half of "Leviathan". Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Gnostics, all of them, have a very live tradition of scholarly research and critiques of the Bible.

 

[Noone special]

MW, I see that as quite an over generalization. However there is a trend, at least in American christianity, to remain shallow and never research your own beliefs.
Unfortunately, this leads to the understanding that most christians are stupid, and that may in fact be true.

I on the other hand am deeply appreciative of our rich christian roots. After all, some of the greatest philosophers have been christians.

And just because the majority of christians are ignorant of scholarly matters, doesnt mean theirs no scholarly christian material, just don't expect to hear it from your run of the mill joe.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

After all, some of the greatest philosophers have been christians.

Hardly a ringing endorsement.

And just because the majority of christians are ignorant of scholarly matters, doesnt mean theirs no scholarly christian material,

If your ignorant of biblical scholarly matters then count yourself as one of the lucky ones.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I guess my question really asks, "why do they believe in fantasies?" In this day and time, believing in fantasies is ridiculous. When are these blind folks gonna see?

Belief in the supernatural is an "archetype," an instinctive behavior like running away from an animal with both eyes in front of his head but not on the sides. Some archetypal motifs can be understood. E.g., instinctive fear of predators is a survival trait and those of our ancestors who had it were more likely to survive to breeding age and pass that DNA down to us.

Others are more baffling. Perhaps they were survival traits in an era whose dangers we can't imagine. Or perhaps they were random mutuations that by chance passed through a genetic bottleneck like Mitochrondrial Eve.

In any case, hard-wired archetypal beliefs are extremely powerful because they feel true. They require no proof. Look at the responses you'll get on this thread from the religionists. They all boil down to: "I know this. I have always known it. I was born knowing it. How can you be so stupid as to doubt something that is so obviously true?"

 

[tim840]

Reason to Believe: a think tank composed of certified scientists, whose purpose is to show how creationism and christianity work from a scientific standpoint. Books include: Creation as Science, Who Was Adam?, 20 Compelling Evidences That God Exists, A Matter of Days, etc. Admittedly, I haven't read any of these, primarily because I find books about science to be very boring. If you like science, though...hmm...maybe I should read those.

Well anyway, here's a link to the website:
http://reasons.org/

 

[iceaura]

Admittedly, I haven't read any of these, primarily because I find books about science to be very boring.

Don't let that stop you - they aren't about science.

 

[John99]

MW, I see that as quite an over generalization. However there is a trend, at least in American christianity, to remain shallow and never research your own beliefs.
Unfortunately, this leads to the understanding that most christians are stupid, and that may in fact be true.

I on the other hand am deeply appreciative of our rich christian roots. After all, some of the greatest philosophers have been christians.

And just because the majority of christians are ignorant of scholarly matters, doesnt mean theirs no scholarly christian material, just don't expect to hear it from your run of the mill joe.

I am not being overly critical by stating you "sort packages at UPS" and the OP works in a (deleted by me), lets keep things in perspective. For me personally, i see no reason to question peoples beliefs weather Muslim, Christian, Hindu etc.

If you believe that gorillas turned into humans based on a skull or two, that proves absolutely nothing then who is to say who is stupid or simple?

And that is something that always amazes me.

 

[tim840]

Don't let that stop you - they aren't about science.

Authors include:

Hugh Ross. PhD in Astronomy at the University of Toronto. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Ross_(creationist)
Fazale Rana. PhD in Chemistry at University of Ohio.

http://www.reasons.org/about/biographies.shtml#fazale_rana

 

[iceaura]

Don't let that stop you - they aren't about science.
”
Authors include:

Don't let that worry you, it's just marketing - there's little or no science in any of them.

You might even find them interesting.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Lori 7:

How does one attain this intimate knowledge of God?

*************
M*W: I have put Lori7 on permanent ignore. She needs never to answer a question I present or to reply to someone else's answer.
I consider Lori7 to be of less-than-appropriate knowledge on this subject.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Lori 7:

How does one attain this intimate knowledge of God?

*************
M*W: it is not possible to attain this kind of intimate knowledge of a god. People who believe god talks to them are as insane as Charles Manson.

 

[tim840]

Don't let that worry you, it's just marketing - there's little or no science in any of them.

You might even find them interesting.

Why don't you actually look at one or two of their books before you make blind judgments on them. You have no idea what you're talking about, so please, if you're going to make comments about what I've said, at least check it out and see what it is.

 

[iceaura]

Why don't you actually look at one or two of their books before you make blind judgments on them.

Why don't you? You claim they are about science. Why would you think that for a second, not having read them ?

Here's a laudatory review of one of them, praising something far removed from science: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/creation_as_science.html

This is from your link to the author's wikipage:

He adopts the view that there are two "books" of revelation from God – the Bible and nature – which both offer accurate knowledge and each of which can correct misunderstanding of the other. Moreover, he argues that the Bible is the only scientifically accurate religious text when interpreted consistently.

That view he has adopted is not scientific, and no book written from it has much to do with science.

 

[Lori_7]

Lori 7:

How does one attain this intimate knowledge of God?

As far as I can tell you just have to sincerely want to, and He'll show Himself to you. He's done some freaky stuff in my life, that's changed my life, taught me things but, i still don't understand what He is. I know 'that' He is, I'm just not sure 'what' he is.