Christianity: Title: Just A Belief?

answers

Registered Senior Member
Here is a short message I wrote and posted in the "a challenge" post. But I put it here as well because it deserves your attention. (Note I was told not to use anything from the Bible in this message, so I only added a short bit down the bottom for Christians - that was the challenge, yet in prayer nothing is truly a challenge).

Message: "Just a Belief"

The following is a summary of the wonderful fate of Jesus' Apostles:
Phillip was crucified (Phrygia A.D 54), Barnabas was burned to death (Cyprus A.D 64), Peter was crucified (Rome A.D 69), Paul was beheaded (Rome A.D 66), Andrew was crucified (Achaia A.D 70), Matthew was beheaded (Ethiopia A.D 60), Luke was hanged (Athens A.D 93), Thomas was speared to death (Calamina A.D 70), Mark was dragged to death (Alexandria A.D 64), and James was clubbed to death (Jerusalem A.D 66). – (By the way this is historical information, not biblical).

These followers of Christ did not live a life of temptation, persecution, and tribulation, which ended in brutal deaths, for no reason. You see the only reason that could justify these martyrs' actions, was to spread the message of God's mercy, in sending His only son to die on the cross so that we may be saved and God glorified.

According to a study by Regent University, in 1998 there were approximately
156,000 Christian martyrs throughout the world. We put so much emphasis and importance on life that we cannot see any reason why someone would die just for a belief. But this isn't 'just a belief' this is the most important truth that anyone could possibly know. Do you really think that those hundreds of thousands of people would have died for 'just a belief'?

Now with modern day, Islamic and cult “martyrs” people often think, who was it that these insane apostles killed with themselves. However unlike many modern day non-Christian martyrs, the apostles died not in the action of trying to take the life of others, but in trying to give life to others, through Jesus Christ. The main difference between the apostle’s martyrdoms, and modern day non-Christian’s, is that these apostles knew for sure, whether or not Jesus was who he claimed to be. They were there through his preaching, miracles, and resurrection, they knew for sure whether or not these things were true. The interesting thing is, that these apostles died for what they called truth. And like C. S. Lewis said,

"You never know how much you really believe anything until its truth or falsehood becomes a matter of life and death to you."

Ask yourself, would twelve men die for a belief, which they knew was false? Would you die for a belief that the sky is pink, when you know that it is not?

Is Christianity 'just a belief' to you, or is it something worth a lot more, is it a truth worth dying for?

By Tim Hall

(P.S This is biblical backing for the Christian: Hebrews 11:35-38, concerning the fate of the apostles - They have been "tortured,...had trial of mockngs and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented - of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth".)

If you disregard this message, you are saying that the apostles went through all these things, for something that they knew was a lie.

Or

You can take in this message, and simply say to God: "I believe, because you are true, I have sinned ----- (not following the ten commandments http://www.livingwaters.com/good/001.shtml )-----, I have missed your mark, I am SORRY, I accept the sacrifice and forgiveness given by Jesus Christ on the cross - thankyou, in Jesus' name I pray, Amen.

After this, whether you prayed this prayer or not, this site may be beneficial: http://www.livingwaters.com/articles_growth.shtml

May God bless the humble, and bring the weight of the law down on the proud.
 
The fact of people dying for their beliefs indicates the conviction of their belief, not necessarily the truth of the belief.
 
?

Sorry, you missed my point. These apostles walked with Jesus, slept where Jesus slept, ate where Jesus ate, were witnesses to his every move. They saw the miracles he did, they knew whether or not he had done them, they were eye witnesses. They were there when Jesus showed them all that he had risen, and when he went to heaven. This is what the apostles saw, and this is what they believed, they believed because they saw. And they preached what they saw and believed, and were tormented then killed for it, and they chose that fate, because they knew what they were preaching was true, becuase they had seen it to be true. NO muslim terrorist, cult member, or any other person who kills himself today, can say the same thing as the apostles. No muslim has seen Mahumad, let alone any miracles done to him or through him. And the same applies to all others, they are not eye witnesses to what they are dying for. There is always the thought that, these people died becuase they were lied to by their belief, but they died because they thought it was true. There cannot be that thought with the apostles. This is becuase they died for what they saw first hand, what the believed becuase they had seen, and this means they either died for something they knew was a lie, or something they knew was truth. And they died for truth, because no one would die for a lie.

I thought I had already said that, and made that point? Perhaps I didn't write it very clearly, sorry.
 
Personally I agree with you answers, yet what exactely are you trying to prove? Is it the certainty that Jesus was in fact the Son of Man? Are you trying to show the difference between our martyrs of old and the present day terrorist bombbers? Perhaps both. Yet I find that indeed these self-proclaimed martyrs are not in fact martyrs. Their religion, any religion that I know of (besides Satanic cults of course) forbid the use of violence in pushing their beliefs unto others. Of course we have seen this throughout the centuries, Charlemange beheaded thousands in one day for not turning to Christianity, yet we do not, at least I do not consider him to be a martyr. Early Muslims also did this for an impact, making others take their beleifs after they had conquered an area. So if you are trying to examine the two I would have to say that present day martyrs, the ones that I think you mean, are not martyrs at all but only brainwashed terrorist who hate America or whomever their trying to terrorize. As for the followers of Jesus we will only know if they died for truth at the end of our lives, and then I do not think I'll be able to post the truth for you to see hahaha.
 
Originally posted by answers
Message: "Just a Belief"
Yes, just a belief. Christianity is just one of many religious beliefs.
Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion imo.
 
So, according to your reasoning, the Branch Davidians MUST have been right as well.

They died as martyrs for their savior David Koresh, whom they lived with.

There are many other such examples, but it is not necessary to go into them all.

Belief does not equate to universal truth.
Even first hand belief that is strong enough to die for.
 
one-raven

Could you please go into more detail on what you just mentioned, I don't mind admitting that my thoughts on this issue are wrong, so don't think I'm just an arrogant christian trying to impose my views on you.

I was just wondering whether these followers of this guy went through tribulation firstly, or just someone killed them. Because death comes much easier then torture in a prison like the apostles went through. And also, any other relevant facts concerning this guy, such as, did he do any miracles to prove that he was supernatural which his followers say they witnessed, christ rised from the dead, did this guy do anything better then that? lol

Anyway, thankyou if you do spend the time to reply.

Bye
 
Conviction and veracity

Originally posted by answers
Sorry, you missed my point.
Apparently, you missed my point so I will try to express it more succinctly: Someone's willingness to die for a belief has absolutely no bearing upon the veracity of that belief, it is only a demonstration of their conviction in said belief.

NO muslim terrorist, cult member, or any other person who kills himself today, can say the same thing as the apostles.
You ignore, of course, those who were alive to witness Mohammed and his purported miracles (although they are called signs, Mohammed repeatedly insisted that he could/did not perform miracles), how do you explain those people? You also side-step the fact that no Christian, born after about 37A.D., would have been able to witness any of Jesus purported miracles... nor, of course, did Paul.

There cannot be that thought with the apostles. This is becuase they died for what they saw first hand, what the believed becuase they had seen, and this means they either died for something they knew was a lie, or something they knew was truth.
Please then explain those who did witness Mohammed and martyred themselves for their belief in the signs they saw first hand?

And they died for truth, because no one would die for a lie.
First off, people die for lies and falsehoods all of the time, please look at the Jamestown page because apparently you didn't before, these were all people who saw and believed first hand.


Finally: If the strength of the Apostles conviction convinces you that they were telling the truth that is absolutely fine.
But it is does not actually prove the veracity of their belief and to state otherwise is simply false.

~Raithere
 
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