Christian Zionists

M

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
Are fundamental Christians natural predisposed towards Zionism? It seems to me most modern day American fundamental Christians accept a few things as true and one of those things is that Jewish people (whom many Christians mistakenly think of as a race of people) must return and claim their homeland (aka Israel) in order to usher in Armageddon.

It seems to me that if children are told this all the way through and into adulthood that they will natural be predisposed to support Zionism.

Has anyone else found that this is the case?
Are there any Christians here who believe Israel must be returned to the Jews to fulfill Gods prophecy?

Lastly, does anyone (at all) support a Greater Israel? One that would include Jordan and Syria? Or one that could even stretch all the way to Baghdad?

Thanks
Michael
 
From Wiki:

Though the borders of Greater Israel are not clearly defined, many devout Jews (and Christians alike) draw such definition from Biblical sources, namely the book of Genesis, which describes God's covenant with Abraham:

On that day, God made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates. The land of the Kenites, Kenizites, Kadmonites; the Hittites, Perizites, Refaim; the Amorites, Canaanites, Gigashites and Yevusites." - Genesis 15:18-21

In the above context, Greater Israel would comprise, roughly, all of modern-day Israel as well as the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, Jordan, and Lebanon, much of Syria, Iraq, and Kuwait, as well as parts of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey.
 
Theres a chapter in one of Gore Vidal's books 'Imperial America' in which he describes the historical development of the Christian right in America.

Its a relatively new thing in the US, the founding fathers certainly had nothing in common with modern day bible thumpers...and its also deeply influenced by 'end times' prophecy.

Prophecy which depends on a Judeo-Christian Israel.

Remember, there was no Islam when these scriptures were written.
 
I haven't been to a Church in a long long time, certainly well before 9/11. I'm atheist now but I used to go to various protestant Churches with my buddies before I became atheist. I have never heard anything at all preached about Muslims. Never a word. I doubt most Fundamental Christians knew anything at all about Islam.

I can only imagine what fundamental Christian preachers are telling their partitioner's about Mohammad and Muslims now. Certainly they'd have had at least a few sermons on the evils of Islam. Probably equated Mohammad with Satan or something of the like. Muslims would of course be portrayed as sheep that have been led astray by the evil teachings in the Qur'an. That's bread and butter monotheism.

But what I really wonder is how 9/11 would be connected in with Armageddon? How was the Iraq war sold to the Christian right and how did the Christian right sell it to their flock??

I personally know fundamental Christians that are very sympathetic to Zionism - - post 9/11. Pre 9/11 they'd not have thought twice about Israel.


I wonder if anyone has a sermon or two they'd like to share that was related to this topic? It seems like the TV evangelists would have been blasting it out??? No???
 
Michael said:
Are fundamental Christians natural predisposed towards Zionism? It seems to me most modern day American fundamental Christians accept a few things as true and one of those things is that Jewish people (whom many Christians mistakenly think of as a race of people) must return and claim their homeland (aka Israel) in order to usher in Armageddon.

It seems to me that if children are told this all the way through and into adulthood that they will natural be predisposed to support Zionism.

Has anyone else found that this is the case?
Are there any Christians here who believe Israel must be returned to the Jews to fulfil Gods prophecy?

Lastly, does anyone (at all) support a Greater Israel? One that would include Jordan and Syria? Or one that could even stretch all the way to Baghdad?

Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...

As a Christian I believe that God will bring about the promised kingdom and It will extend from the river Nile to the rivers of Iraq it will include Lebanon and Syria, basically everything south of turkey including the Arabian peninsular.

BUT.

I believe the God Himself will gather His people and found this Kingdom upon the return of the Messiah Jesus. I do not believe prophecy predicts that this kingdom would come about because of the actions of the British Parliament under the control of masonic forces.

BUT.

I do believe that some of the Jews now in Israel will form part of the promised Remnant 144,000 that will be preserved through the wrath of the Day of the Lord and they will be citizens of the Promised Kingdom that will last 1000 years.

So.

I am not a supporter of the masonic state of modern isreal. But i believe that God has a plan to save a portion of the populace of modern isreal during the times of tribulation before the second coming of the Messiah Jesus and also during the time of the Wrath of God on the Day of the Lord.

So.

Yes Isreal must be returned to the saints for the prophecy to be fulfilled but the modern state of Israel is not the fulfilment of the prophecy. It is a fake fulfilment designed to deceive those that do not have a proper understanding of Prophecy. It allows them to have a false view of the time table of prophecy fulfilment and that means that when the anti-christ comes in their false time sequence many will be deceived into thinking that He is the returned Messiah.


Sounds complicated?

Most well thought out conspiracies are.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Do you think that the Messiah will return in your life time?
Do you think that 9/11 and/or the Iraq war is part of the End Times?

Also, what do you think about President Bush? Does Bush play an important role in the fulfillment of Biblically Prophecy?
 
Michael said:
But what I really wonder is how 9/11 would be connected in with Armageddon?

I wonder if anyone has a sermon or two they'd like to share that was related to this topic? It seems like the TV evangelists would have been blasting it out??? No???
Click to expand...
The most prominent fundamentalist line on 9/11 was that this was God's punishment for allowing the American Civil Liberties Union to secularize and dictate the political and social environment in America.

This from Jerry Falwell:

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

"I therefore believe this has created an environment which possibly has caused God to lift the veil of protection which has allowed no one to attack America on our soil since 1812."
 
Michael said:
Do you think that the Messiah will return in your life time?
Click to expand...

If i live to the age 70, then yes i think He will return by then. But my faith is not founded on that.



Do you think that 9/11 and/or the Iraq war is part of the End Times?
Click to expand...

Part of the troubles called the sorrows that where predicted. But not central events. These events are small compared to the central events of the End Times.



Also, what do you think about President Bush?
Click to expand...

Bush is a skulls and bones /masonic controled, servent of satan.



Does Bush play an important role in the fulfillment of Biblically Prophecy?
Click to expand...

No. He is just one of many world leaders preparing the way for the anti-christ. They work together to bring the world to crisis, to create the conditions that are needed to bring in the anti-christ.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Considering Muslims are the dominant group in the ME and suround Israel, and have their own anti-Jewish religous literature, where do you think Mohammad and Muslims fit into Biblical Prophecy?
 
Michael said:
But what I really wonder is how 9/11 would be connected in with Armageddon? How was the Iraq war sold to the Christian right and how did the Christian right sell it to their flock??

I personally know fundamental Christians that are very sympathetic to Zionism - - post 9/11. Pre 9/11 they'd not have thought twice about Israel.


I wonder if anyone has a sermon or two they'd like to share that was related to this topic? It seems like the TV evangelists would have been blasting it out??? No???
Click to expand...

I don't know any sermons (& am an agnostic myself) but you can certainly find plenty of stuff on the Web trying to connect the invasion of Iraq to the end times, etc. if you want to wade through it. A lot of it connects Babylon in Revelations & Iraq.

For example:
http://www.raptureready.com/rr-iraq.html
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1787.cfm

As for the Christian Zionists, here's an interesting piece on their coalition:
http://www.alternet.org/story/39748/
 
From the above link:

In a perfect world, a reporter at last week's press conference with George Bush and Tony Blair would have asked Bush, in the presence of his principal European ally, if he believes the European Union is the Antichrist.

also

While Hagee has long prophesized about the end times, he ratcheted up his rhetoric this year with the publication of his book, "Jerusalem Countdown," in which he argues that a confrontation with Iran is a necessary precondition for Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ. In the best-selling book, Hagee insists that the United States must join Israel in a preemptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West.:wtf:

:crazy:


It's really a worry,
Michael
 
Michael said:
Considering Muslims are the dominant group in the ME and suround Israel, and have their own anti-Jewish religous literature, where do you think Mohammad and Muslims fit into Biblical Prophecy?
Click to expand...

I believe they will be exterminated by the Anti-christ in an effort to win over the Jews and the rest of the world. I think the muslims are part of the Harlot referenced in the book of Revelation. I believe the muslims will support a leader whom they will believe is the Messiah but is referenced in the Book of Daniel as the evil King of the South.

The King of the South will fight a great war against the evil King of the North. The King of the South will win the first part of the conflict and take prisoner a great army of the Northern King. The King of the South will then order the execution of the entire army. (like what Starlin did to the polish officers but on a much larger scale)

The King of the North will then raise an even greater army and will carry out a successful war of genocide on the arabic people.

Then the King of the North will be seen as the true Messiah, But he will be the anti-christ.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Michael said:
From the above link:

In a perfect world, a reporter at last week's press conference with George Bush and Tony Blair would have asked Bush, in the presence of his principal European ally, if he believes the European Union is the Antichrist.

also

While Hagee has long prophesized about the end times, he ratcheted up his rhetoric this year with the publication of his book, "Jerusalem Countdown," in which he argues that a confrontation with Iran is a necessary precondition for Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ. In the best-selling book, Hagee insists that the United States must join Israel in a preemptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West.:wtf:

:crazy:


It's really a worry,
Michael
Click to expand...

Hagee is wrong. About a war with Iran being a "necessary" precondition for Armageddon.

But it is clear that Israel is ready to launch a pre-emptive strike against iran. first with conventional weapons and if that is unsuccessful then with nuclear weapons. The leader of iran is a firm believer in the coming of the madi and he believe it is irans mission to be used by the madi to exterminate the jews and bring to an end the state of isreal. He has made it clear that his desire is to destroy the state of isreal. If the Israelies have any interest in avoiding another holocaust then they have no choice but to destroy iran. The Iranian leader has forced them into this action. While the Israelis would like the USA to do the job for them they have shown recently in their pre-emptive strike on syria that they are willing to go all the way even to a first nuclear strike option.

Things are heating up more than most people realize.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar,

If Iran were poised to attack Israel - what would your response/support be?

Michael
 
Michael said:
Are fundamental Christians natural predisposed towards Zionism? It seems to me most modern day American fundamental Christians accept a few things as true and one of those things is that Jewish people (whom many Christians mistakenly think of as a race of people) must return and claim their homeland (aka Israel) in order to usher in Armageddon.

It seems to me that if children are told this all the way through and into adulthood that they will natural be predisposed to support Zionism.

Has anyone else found that this is the case?
Are there any Christians here who believe Israel must be returned to the Jews to fulfill Gods prophecy?

Lastly, does anyone (at all) support a Greater Israel? One that would include Jordan and Syria? Or one that could even stretch all the way to Baghdad?

Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...

This is one thing I do not understand. Why don't Christians fight to take the Holy Land, as they did during the Crusades? Jews have never been friends with Christians, history has shown us that much.


It defintely has to do with Armageddon and the Book of Revelation.



A Greater Israel? Firstly, you need to eliminate the concept of the Greater Syria.
 
Well, the main reason I think that such a thing has not happened is because so called powerful "Christian" nations are in actuality secular. It the USA was a theocracy then I'm sure it'd be quite easy for them to secure the "promised land" but then again, if the USA was a theocracy then it's probably be a backwards dump without the means to project such power.

It's kind of a rate limiting step isn't it?

So, in short, it's because powerful countries are managed by secular institutions.
 
Michael said:
Adstar,

If Iran were poised to attack Israel - what would your response/support be?

Michael
Click to expand...



I would not support anyone iran or isreal in any conflict. I do not believe in fighting wars so supporting either side is out of the question.


Matthew 24
6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Michael said:
Well, the main reason I think that such a thing has not happened is because so called powerful "Christian" nations are in actuality secular. It the USA was a theocracy then I'm sure it'd be quite easy for them to secure the "promised land" but then again, if the USA was a theocracy then it's probably be a backwards dump without the means to project such power.

It's kind of a rate limiting step isn't it?

So, in short, it's because powerful countries are managed by secular institutions.
Click to expand...

There has never been a Christian nation and there will never be one run by man.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top