Christian Gnostic Texts

[Thoreau]

Anybody else read them all?

I'm currently reading the Gospel of Thomas. I've read the Gospel of Mary and Gospel of Philip so far.

They are very interesting texts which put a spin on the typical Christian ideology, allbeit still far-fetched.

For those of you that don't know me, I am not Christian. I think it is, more a less, a child's fairly tale. But thats just my personal opinion.

To each their own, I suppose.

But nevertheless, I am reading them for knowledge. The more you know, the more you can understand, the more you can point out the hypocrasies in debates.

 

[spidergoat]

I have not read them all, but I read the Gospel of Thomas.

 

[StrawDog]

Anybody else read them all?

I'm currently reading the Gospel of Thomas. I've read the Gospel of Mary and Gospel of Philip so far.

They are very interesting texts which put a spin on the typical Christian ideology, allbeit still far-fetched.

For those of you that don't know me, I am not Christian. I think it is, more a less, a child's fairly tale. But thats just my personal opinion.

To each their own, I suppose.

But nevertheless, I am reading them for knowledge. The more you know, the more you can understand, the more you can point out the hypocrasies in debates.

These texts are extremely interesting, and throw quite a bit of light on pre Constantine Christianity. A book on the Gnostic texts in their entirety with meaningful commentary, and that is easy to pick up and put down without
creating too much burning rubber, is

The Gnostic Scriptures: A New Translation with Annotations and Introductions by (The Anchor Bible Reference Library) (Paperback)
by Bentley Layton

(http://www.amazon.com/Gnostic-Scrip...r_1_24?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234916547&sr=1-24)

 

[Hapsburg]

While interesting, it must be understood that Gnosticism wasn't as strong a force in Christianity as some may make it out to be. It was certainly there, and known, in Early Christianity, but Gnosticism also existed prior to Christianity, and was a very syncretic religion in and of itself. When Christianity came into being, Gnosticism absorbed some bits of Christian belief, but it never fully meshed well. And, it gradually petered out and disappeared before the end of the Second Century.

Arguably, Gnosticism had more impact after Orthodox and Catholic Christianity had been established for a long time. Namely, as a major influence on the Cathar movement in the early 1200's, and as a contributing influence on Christian mysticism and the occult in the late middle ages and Renaissance era.

 

[Michael]

Many Gnostic Xians were in fact proselytizing Greek Jews living in Egypt.

I liked the book: The Jesus Mysteries. It was a fun read.

 

[StrawDog]

While interesting, it must be understood that Gnosticism wasn't as strong a force in Christianity as some may make it out to be. It was certainly there, and known, in Early Christianity, but Gnosticism also existed prior to Christianity, and was a very syncretic religion in and of itself. When Christianity came into being, Gnosticism absorbed some bits of Christian belief, but it never fully meshed well. And, it gradually petered out and disappeared before the end of the Second Century.

Arguably, Gnosticism had more impact after Orthodox and Catholic Christianity had been established for a long time. Namely, as a major influence on the Cathar movement in the early 1200's, and as a contributing influence on Christian mysticism and the occult in the late middle ages and Renaissance era.

Hi Hapsburg. If, as you say Gnosticism predated Christianity per se, would it not be more reasonable to assume that Christianity absorbed bits of Gnosticism rather than the other way round?

 

[spidergoat]

While interesting, it must be understood that Gnosticism wasn't as strong a force in Christianity as some may make it out to be. It was certainly there, and known, in Early Christianity, but Gnosticism also existed prior to Christianity, and was a very syncretic religion in and of itself. When Christianity came into being, Gnosticism absorbed some bits of Christian belief, but it never fully meshed well. And, it gradually petered out and disappeared before the end of the Second Century.

Arguably, Gnosticism had more impact after Orthodox and Catholic Christianity had been established for a long time. Namely, as a major influence on the Cathar movement in the early 1200's, and as a contributing influence on Christian mysticism and the occult in the late middle ages and Renaissance era.

One could argue that the disciple Mary's views coincided quite well with the Gnostics. She emphasized that personal revelation (gnosis) was the point of the resurrection, not that Jesus would literally visit you. The decline of Gnosticism probably had alot to do with the power of the early Church and their relentless destruction of "heretical" documents.

 

[StrawDog]

One could argue that the disciple Mary's views coincided quite well with the Gnostics. She emphasized that personal revelation (gnosis) was the point of the resurrection, not that Jesus would literally visit you. The decline of Gnosticism probably had alot to do with the power of the early Church and their relentless destruction of "heretical" documents.

That sounds about right to me as well. There are still plenty clues as to the Gnostic concept of "Sophia" where this (could) be interpolated with "Father", "Son" etc. in the NT.

 

[swivel]

"Misquoting Jesus" is a brilliant read.

 

[Michael]

The Gnostic writing have some secret meanings (read between the lines stuff) and if they are considered the true Xianity then one could argue that none of the monotheistic sects that have followed them and purport to be continuation of the "true" God's revelation (Catholic, Orthodox, Islam, Mormon, Bahai, etc...) are in fact true revelations - they'd have to be false as they have lost these important "Godly" inner mystery secrets.

 

[John99]

well if you dont believe it then you are not missing anything.

 

[Thoreau]

well if you dont believe it then you are not missing anything.

Makes no sense. Anyone can comprehend something whether they believe it or not. I, myself, enjoy studying religion as a whole, though I do not believe in it. So the only way I would be missing anything is if I didn't read or study at all.

 

[StrawDog]

Makes no sense. Anyone can comprehend something whether they believe it or not. I, myself, enjoy studying religion as a whole, though I do not believe in it. So the only way I would be missing anything is if I didn't read or study at all.

Well said. I find the entire field of religion fascinating. After all, so much of mankind`s history (whether we like it or not), is interwoven with religions and magical thinking. The conundrum of human nature is darkly revealed.

 

[SkinWalker]

well if you dont believe it then you are not missing anything.

I don't believe in Gilgamesh, the Enum Elish, or the Popul Vuh, but having read them I feel enlightened if only because I have insight into the archaic and early beliefs of ancient cultures. The same holds true for early Judeo-Christian mythology and literature.

 

[Hapsburg]

Hi Hapsburg. If, as you say Gnosticism predated Christianity per se, would it not be more reasonable to assume that Christianity absorbed bits of Gnosticism rather than the other way round?

Not quite. Mainstream Early Christianity didn't take Gnostic ideas, really. Some Gnostics split off, and appropriated many Christian beliefs onto their system. This fell by the wayside as it failed to attract many Christians and Roman/Greek pagans.

Later Christian mysticism did, in a way, absorb bits of Gnosticism, but not in as direct a way that Gnostic "Christiantiy" absorbed Christian beliefs.